Very variable power with TEK2
14 August 2002, 06:26 PM
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I've had my RB5 for almost 6 weeks now and have had a TEK 2 since the morning after I got it. In that time I have driven over 6,500 miles on either Optimax or SUL (with £12 of 95RON once when I was empty at 5:30 am and nowhere open had decent fuel). Other spec is SS back box and ITG element, otherwise standard.
All this time the scoob has been noticeably very variable in performance, sometimes feeling very flat and sometimes OK to the point that I'm nervous of overtaking because I really have no clue how much grunt I have; we're talking a 50-75bhp drop easily I'd have thought. I have put this variance down to 'stale' Optimax, air temperature, colour of my underwear, you name it.
We moved house a couple of weeks ago and now I travel up a long and fairly steep dual carriageway (Telegraph Hill on the A380 if anyone knows it) and I have now realised that power will come and go with the throttle fairly wide open in 4th or 5th to the extent that I can be accelerating nicely up the hill one second and holding speed the next.
Obviously this is not acceptable, but I'm looking for some advice.
I'm having the 45k service done next Friday, is there likely to be anything such as plugs, leads or other ignition components causing this that may be picked up then?
Anyone any idea what else could cause it? I know, "how long is a piece of string?", but I guess I'm asking if there is any known issue with Imprezas that does this?
If not, do any other TEK 2 owners see anything similar?
Fuel economy gets better every tank, if that is a clue (320 miles / tank last fill).
Since it is never quick enough for me (don't suppose it ever will be) the obvious answer may be TEK 3 (and I'm particualrly looking for John Banks to step in here), but can I get the upgrade on the unit I bought direct from ECUTek without paying for a whole TEK 3? Would I be better buying Delta Dash and having it mapped remotely based on the data (by John)?
It's too long already, but any help appreciated and I'll provide any more info anyone needs to offer suggestions.
TIA
Fen
All this time the scoob has been noticeably very variable in performance, sometimes feeling very flat and sometimes OK to the point that I'm nervous of overtaking because I really have no clue how much grunt I have; we're talking a 50-75bhp drop easily I'd have thought. I have put this variance down to 'stale' Optimax, air temperature, colour of my underwear, you name it.
We moved house a couple of weeks ago and now I travel up a long and fairly steep dual carriageway (Telegraph Hill on the A380 if anyone knows it) and I have now realised that power will come and go with the throttle fairly wide open in 4th or 5th to the extent that I can be accelerating nicely up the hill one second and holding speed the next.
Obviously this is not acceptable, but I'm looking for some advice.
I'm having the 45k service done next Friday, is there likely to be anything such as plugs, leads or other ignition components causing this that may be picked up then?
Anyone any idea what else could cause it? I know, "how long is a piece of string?", but I guess I'm asking if there is any known issue with Imprezas that does this?
If not, do any other TEK 2 owners see anything similar?
Fuel economy gets better every tank, if that is a clue (320 miles / tank last fill).
Since it is never quick enough for me (don't suppose it ever will be) the obvious answer may be TEK 3 (and I'm particualrly looking for John Banks to step in here), but can I get the upgrade on the unit I bought direct from ECUTek without paying for a whole TEK 3? Would I be better buying Delta Dash and having it mapped remotely based on the data (by John)?
It's too long already, but any help appreciated and I'll provide any more info anyone needs to offer suggestions.
TIA
Fen
14 August 2002, 06:49 PM
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Could be a lot of things - turbo - do you have a boost guage - are you maintaining boost. Could be a leak in the inlet, boost control pipes, solenoid could be sticking - do you get oil in them - have you cleaned it.....
14 August 2002, 06:54 PM
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No boost gauge, so could be losing boost.
I haven't overfilled with oil, but the car did 37,500 with another owner so who knows?
I'm tempted to say that there has been a bit more whooshing and whistling under light acceleration that I noticed at first, so maybe you have something in the leak idea, cheers.
Fen
I haven't overfilled with oil, but the car did 37,500 with another owner so who knows?
I'm tempted to say that there has been a bit more whooshing and whistling under light acceleration that I noticed at first, so maybe you have something in the leak idea, cheers.
Fen
14 August 2002, 06:57 PM
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Lots of whistling under light acceration could also mean broken blade in the turbo - or possibly turbo bearings.
Check all you hoses first - loose clips, splits - these can take time to find...
Check all you hoses first - loose clips, splits - these can take time to find...
14 August 2002, 07:01 PM
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Certainly it's not worth considering a Tek3 until the problem is sorted - which I very much doubt is the mapping!
With the large milage you cover, do you ever go near one of the specialist firms? If it's having this problem regularly/constantly, then your freindly neighbourhood DeltaDash owner (or yourself if you feel like fiddling
) could probably find out a lot of info!
With the large milage you cover, do you ever go near one of the specialist firms? If it's having this problem regularly/constantly, then your freindly neighbourhood DeltaDash owner (or yourself if you feel like fiddling
) could probably find out a lot of info!
14 August 2002, 07:12 PM
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The whistling is still less than the amount my old 944 turbo did after I decatted it (before the induction kit anyhow, then you couldn't hear it!) so I don't know that it's excessive. I'll start with the clips etc., and probably have the dealer look at it next week if I don't turn anything up myself.
I probably do go near lots of specialists regularly, but the problems are:
I'm new to Scoobies so I don't know where they are
I don't always know where I'm going to be in time to book something
I need to get from wherever the specialist is to wherever I'm supposed to be and back at either end of the woking day, which can be surprisingly difficult.
I guess I was hoping it was maybe a function of the TEK 2 being a "one size fits all" map, so an ideal excuse for the TEK 3.
Time to take my first serious look into that scary mass of pipes and hoses under the bonnet then...
I probably do go near lots of specialists regularly, but the problems are:
I'm new to Scoobies so I don't know where they are
I don't always know where I'm going to be in time to book something
I need to get from wherever the specialist is to wherever I'm supposed to be and back at either end of the woking day, which can be surprisingly difficult.
I guess I was hoping it was maybe a function of the TEK 2 being a "one size fits all" map, so an ideal excuse for the TEK 3.
Time to take my first serious look into that scary mass of pipes and hoses under the bonnet then...
14 August 2002, 07:46 PM
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I have to agree with nom and the other posters. There is some issue with your particular car - a fault of some sort. Very difficult to diagnose without more info. Sorry can't be more specific. Small variations in power from the boost and ignition variations are expected. But it should never be anything other than smooth and predictable.
You can easily rule out an ECU problem by putting in a standard one (any of AE800/1/2 will do to try and loads of people have spares).
I am not saying an ECU problem CANNOT occur - just very unlikely. Twice out of probably 300 ECU reflashes now I have had a dodgy one - just reprogramming it again sorts it.
[Edited by john banks - 8/14/2002 7:49:52 PM]
You can easily rule out an ECU problem by putting in a standard one (any of AE800/1/2 will do to try and loads of people have spares).
I am not saying an ECU problem CANNOT occur - just very unlikely. Twice out of probably 300 ECU reflashes now I have had a dodgy one - just reprogramming it again sorts it.
[Edited by john banks - 8/14/2002 7:49:52 PM]
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15 August 2002, 08:19 AM
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Sounds familiar to me....
I would go with all the above.
I replace the MAF on mine
Cleaned the boost solenoid
Cleaned all the clips and pipes
Then finally adjusted the actuator rod
This made things more consistent, still not happy now though.
Question for Mr Banks, is the tek2 designed to run with a few more mods, ie downpipe, induction, kit, etc or is it ok with rb5's limited mods?
I would go with all the above.
I replace the MAF on mine
Cleaned the boost solenoid
Cleaned all the clips and pipes
Then finally adjusted the actuator rod
This made things more consistent, still not happy now though.
Question for Mr Banks, is the tek2 designed to run with a few more mods, ie downpipe, induction, kit, etc or is it ok with rb5's limited mods?
15 August 2002, 09:12 AM
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Tek 2 will run a range of mods, but it is impossible to cater perfectly for every mod with a standard map. I can't give more details as I have never really used the Tek 2 map for my customers.
16 August 2002, 09:10 PM
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I haven't looked at anything under the bonnet since I last posted, but I did drive the car to Shrewsbury and back today (about 450 miles all in).
Most of the way home it was very flat; I thought because of warm air and a/c on, but then it would suddenly start to go, particularly after I filled with Optimax in place of the BP SUL it had before.
It isn't so much that it happens uphill, more that it (previously) seemed to happen then because of holding the throttle open for longer (still suggesting a boost problem to me), but now it's getting far worse; much easier to diagnose I guess. When the power cuts it feels to me like boost or ignition is being altered (by the ECU?, although maybe to compensate for a leak / dodgy sensor reading). I have a boost gauge in the garage that I bought for my 944, so I could always fit that I guess.
The MAF is an interesting idea as I confess I ran it for a couple of weeks with the ITG not properly seated.
I'll try to find time to check things over a bit tomorrow.
Thanks for the help so far,
Fen
BTW P20SPD, interesting that you say you're still not satisfied. What spec is yours?
[Edited by RB5#295 - 8/16/2002 9:16:52 PM]
Most of the way home it was very flat; I thought because of warm air and a/c on, but then it would suddenly start to go, particularly after I filled with Optimax in place of the BP SUL it had before.
It isn't so much that it happens uphill, more that it (previously) seemed to happen then because of holding the throttle open for longer (still suggesting a boost problem to me), but now it's getting far worse; much easier to diagnose I guess. When the power cuts it feels to me like boost or ignition is being altered (by the ECU?, although maybe to compensate for a leak / dodgy sensor reading). I have a boost gauge in the garage that I bought for my 944, so I could always fit that I guess.
The MAF is an interesting idea as I confess I ran it for a couple of weeks with the ITG not properly seated.
I'll try to find time to check things over a bit tomorrow.
Thanks for the help so far,
Fen
BTW P20SPD, interesting that you say you're still not satisfied. What spec is yours?
[Edited by RB5#295 - 8/16/2002 9:16:52 PM]
16 August 2002, 09:23 PM
#12
sounds like the car is going into "safe mode" which amounts to 8psi of boost on a car like yours.
It goes out of safe mode after a number of journeys or distance travelled ,I believe, and from my own experience, it may be after 10km with no more problems (picked up by the ecu that is), but I can't be sure on that.
Anyway, you might have some luck in using the diagnostic connector to read the "check engine" light, as many problems that cause safe mode don't cause a "check engine" light, but will put it in safe mode.
Possible candidates are things like stuck idle control valve, stock boost solenoid, maf sensor problem (like water on it causing wierd readings) or split/lose hoses in the boost control pipework, there are others but more vauge.
I don't know what the diagnostic features are like on the later cars, but someone else will know.
edited to add:
put it in for service, and tell them about the problem, and ask the garage to check errors logged on the ecu.
paul
[Edited by Pavlo - 8/16/2002 9:24:34 PM]
It goes out of safe mode after a number of journeys or distance travelled ,I believe, and from my own experience, it may be after 10km with no more problems (picked up by the ecu that is), but I can't be sure on that.
Anyway, you might have some luck in using the diagnostic connector to read the "check engine" light, as many problems that cause safe mode don't cause a "check engine" light, but will put it in safe mode.
Possible candidates are things like stuck idle control valve, stock boost solenoid, maf sensor problem (like water on it causing wierd readings) or split/lose hoses in the boost control pipework, there are others but more vauge.
I don't know what the diagnostic features are like on the later cars, but someone else will know.
edited to add:
put it in for service, and tell them about the problem, and ask the garage to check errors logged on the ecu.
paul
[Edited by Pavlo - 8/16/2002 9:24:34 PM]
16 August 2002, 09:35 PM
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Oh yeah, I've had the 'check engine' light come on 4 or 5 times, but it has gone off before I've managed to stop every time. Doesn't coincide noticeably with the power drop, but has mainly happened when cruising at 85 ish.
Fen
Fen
16 August 2002, 09:36 PM
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Oh yeah, I've had the 'check engine' light come on 4 or 5 times, but it has gone off before I've managed to stop every time. Doesn't coincide noticeably with the power drop, but has mainly happened when cruising at 85 ish, so maybe just didn't notice. Naturally I back off immediately the light come on.
Fen
Fen
16 August 2002, 10:15 PM
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I had a few problems with my car like yours some days would fly and others felt totally flat, had a subaru dealer look at it and made my walet £115 lighter then said we have no idear what the problem is. So i looked at it my self fitted a afr meter and found out that it was running very lean, after taking the maf voltage found it to very low. Which caused lean mixture on boost causing det and ecu cutting boost, Fitted new maf bingo problem sorted im not saying thats the problem on your car but could be worth looking in to. Hope you find the problem.
16 August 2002, 10:58 PM
#16
I am surprised that the so called dealer didn't find that, it's in the bleedin diagnostic manual
just remembered, go to Ravensblade Impreza for lots of diagnostic related stuff. look out for the diagnostic PDF in the wiring section, rather than the technical docs section.
paul
just remembered, go to Ravensblade Impreza for lots of diagnostic related stuff. look out for the diagnostic PDF in the wiring section, rather than the technical docs section.
paul
17 August 2002, 12:36 PM
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my spec
MY00 Wagon Uk
Scoobysport downpipe
magnex centre
scoobysport back box
blitz induction
tek2
optimax
it hits full boost fine, after adjusting theactuator, but does not spool up like it did in the 1st week of having tek2.
seriously considering sending back, although will keep and go to tek3 when fmic and new turbo come
MY00 Wagon Uk
Scoobysport downpipe
magnex centre
scoobysport back box
blitz induction
tek2
optimax
it hits full boost fine, after adjusting theactuator, but does not spool up like it did in the 1st week of having tek2.
seriously considering sending back, although will keep and go to tek3 when fmic and new turbo come
17 August 2002, 06:42 PM
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who you refering MAF to me or RB5. If me you should know bought new one and tried a different one. If RB5 then i agree? possibly.
I have not tried original ecu, cause PE got it, hence why i might send mine back and ask for another.
anyway it should all be cured with new fmic, turbo and tek3 oh and Water Injection.
I have not tried original ecu, cause PE got it, hence why i might send mine back and ask for another.
anyway it should all be cured with new fmic, turbo and tek3
oh and Water Injection.
17 August 2002, 08:10 PM
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OK ScoobyJawa, as I said I'm new to Scoobs and my previous experience / impression of 'check engine' lights is that they are b******s.
Is the Subaru one worth taking notice of?
What does it warn against?
Every time it came on I'd back off, it would go out (after 30 secs to 2 mins I'd say) and I'd stop, check the fluids etc., then carry on as I'm miles from home etc. etc.
I'm going to try to get my service brought forward from Firday as I'm going to be over the miles by Friday anyhow and you've all got me worried with all this talk of detting and dodgy MAFs destroying engines.
After reading John Banks comments about the MY99 detting at 5000rpm I'm seriously thinking that I need to get the car RR'd and mapped properly after I get this problem sorted out, otherwise I'm never going to be confortable.
This Impreza is turning out to be a bigger pain in the a*se to run every day than the Porsche with £11k of engine mods was, and it's nowhere near quick enough to accept that...
Fen
Is the Subaru one worth taking notice of?
What does it warn against?
Every time it came on I'd back off, it would go out (after 30 secs to 2 mins I'd say) and I'd stop, check the fluids etc., then carry on as I'm miles from home etc. etc.
I'm going to try to get my service brought forward from Firday as I'm going to be over the miles by Friday anyhow and you've all got me worried with all this talk of detting and dodgy MAFs destroying engines.
After reading John Banks comments about the MY99 detting at 5000rpm I'm seriously thinking that I need to get the car RR'd and mapped properly after I get this problem sorted out, otherwise I'm never going to be confortable.
This Impreza is turning out to be a bigger pain in the a*se to run every day than the Porsche with £11k of engine mods was, and it's nowhere near quick enough to accept that...
Fen
18 August 2002, 02:02 PM
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Yes mate - the check engine on an impreza is well worth taking note of - it does cover an awful lot of faults - someone did put a list up of all the error codes pre MY99 and post MY99 a few months back but not sure what the thread was.
Anyway - if the check engine light has come on and reported a error code fault but gone off again it will still be stored in the ECU for when you next get it serviced or Delta Dash'd etc, it can only be cleared manually AFAIK.......
Hope you get it sorted....
Anyway - if the check engine light has come on and reported a error code fault but gone off again it will still be stored in the ECU for when you next get it serviced or Delta Dash'd etc, it can only be cleared manually AFAIK.......
Hope you get it sorted....
20 August 2002, 10:54 PM
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That's exactly the sort of info somthing like Scoobynet is for; I'll give it a go (though not for a couple of days since I've got to head up to the smoke tomorrow).
Cheers,
Fen
Cheers,
Fen
20 August 2002, 11:11 PM
#29
Ecu Specialist
There is possibly a straight forward answer to this, if you have no boost guage then you won't be able to tell what the boost is doing but I suspect the ecu is droppping the boost control so that all you get is 7 psi boost, this can come and go, the reason is safety related and its the ecu taking action when it sees a certain set of circumstances. Thats one possibility, the other could be maf related but that would more likely cause very shuddery running not just a drop in power, a Deltadash or Select monitor session should suss it out.
23 August 2002, 07:50 PM
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OK, car back from 45k service today, and they were asked to look at the variable power and 'check engine' light as well.
I went to pick it up to be told that they had found the problem "it has a non-standard air filter, sir" (no siht!), "these always oil up, we see it all the time. We put a standard one in, do you want to leave it in?"
I elected to keep it in to see if it was the problem, although I imagine it was pretty obvious I was less than convinced. Did it fix it? Did it b******s.
Basically then it appears that they decided to assume the filter was the cause and replace it without testing the resolution (perhaps because the fault code indicated induction, perhaps because they couldn't even be bothered to check it).
Given the above and that the car wasn't actually in the book as due in today despite my 'phoning to book it in almost 2 weeks ago and calling back on Monday to see if they could do it any sooner, then I'm not overly impressed with my first experience of Subaru customer service. To give them their due they were very apologetic when I called them 5 mins after picking the car up to tell them it was no better, and I expect to be fawned over when it goes back in a couple of weeks.
I'm also kicking myself for not spotting the front pads were low as I've now paid £98 for a set of standard ones when I could have had EBC greens to keep the brake dust down, but that's hardly their fault...
I'll try to check the fault code myself this weekend and post the results.
Fen
I went to pick it up to be told that they had found the problem "it has a non-standard air filter, sir" (no siht!), "these always oil up, we see it all the time. We put a standard one in, do you want to leave it in?"
I elected to keep it in to see if it was the problem, although I imagine it was pretty obvious I was less than convinced. Did it fix it? Did it b******s.
Basically then it appears that they decided to assume the filter was the cause and replace it without testing the resolution (perhaps because the fault code indicated induction, perhaps because they couldn't even be bothered to check it).
Given the above and that the car wasn't actually in the book as due in today despite my 'phoning to book it in almost 2 weeks ago and calling back on Monday to see if they could do it any sooner, then I'm not overly impressed with my first experience of Subaru customer service. To give them their due they were very apologetic when I called them 5 mins after picking the car up to tell them it was no better, and I expect to be fawned over when it goes back in a couple of weeks.
I'm also kicking myself for not spotting the front pads were low as I've now paid £98 for a set of standard ones when I could have had EBC greens to keep the brake dust down, but that's hardly their fault...
I'll try to check the fault code myself this weekend and post the results.
Fen