WR-MIKE

COULD ANYBODY TELL ME IF I CAN PUT A FMIC ON MY STANDARD (APART FROM A PPP & 3” DE-CATTED EXAUST) MY99 & INCREASE IT’S PERFORMANCE, OR WILL I HAVE TO GET THE ECU RE-MAPPED AND FIT A LARGER TURBO ?
THANKS,
MIKE.

nom

Fairly pointless without a remap or similar. The standard turbo will be able to take advantage of it, but it would make sense to get a larger turbo as well.

WR-MIKE

I AM INTENDING TO GET A BIGGER TURBO & A RE-MAP BUT AS FUNDS ARE TIGHT AT THE MOMENT I WANTED TO GET THE FMIC AND THEN START SAVING UP BUT I NEED TO KNOW IF I WILL DO ANY DAMAGE TO THE ENGINE BY FITTING THE FMIC WITHOUT THE RE-MAP.

Adam M

you wont do damage, but the standard turbo (on a uk car at least) is just too small to use with a fmic.

It will make it damn slow.

would be much better to save and get the turbo/remap first.

trout and bob rawle have proven that the tmic can be made to perform very well indeed.

Moles Dad

AdamM, is that why I cannot get my uk (standard turbo) to make decent power?

I am running Pace fmic with standard turbo.

john banks

Get a turbo, fuel pump and map to unlock the investment you made in the FMIC

The TD04 killer is the exhaust back pressure when you try and flog it and you just see the ignition getting pulled.

Moles Dad

John, I know youre right, I just cannot afford bits at the moment...I was really only being funny as Im not far off 300bhp (on a good day) not THAT bad with a oem turbo surely?

If I did get the car plugged in to some ecu software it would probably 'scare' me into getting it mapped...all those things that are going on that I dont know about

Anyway, for the time being it will have to be 'ignorance is bliss'

FMIC will get his new play-mate, but not just yet!

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

go on md, you know you want to

WR-MIKE

MOLES DAD,
HAVE YOU ANY OTHER MODS OR IS YOURS TOTALY STD APART FROM THE FMIC

Hyperflow

MR-Mike

If you install a FMIC with a standard turbo you will make about 25hp extra at the wheels on a set up like yours....dont let anybody tell you otherwise..we have proven this time and time again.

It will be a different car...the difference will be night and day...it is instant easy power...all this smack about the stock turbo being too small is BS.

Another thing to note: The only people that bag a FMIC are those that dont have one, anybody WITH a front mount wouldnt swap it for anything.

Im not going to repost on this thread.....I can see the techno police coming already

Kevin, Hyperflow

WR-MIKE

KEVIN,
WHERE CAN I FIND INFO & PRICES ON THE FMIC(S) THAT YOU DEAL WITH ?
ALSO WOULD YOU HAVE PRICES FOR SHIPPING TO THE UK ?
EMIAL ME IF YOU DONT WANT TO POST THE ANSWERS.
CHEERS,
MIKE

mutant_matt

Mike,

Stef had a Hyperflow FMIC fitted on a UK car with the (I think) standard turbo, and IIRC, he thought it was a) a great improvement and b) hardly any more lag.

Certainly getting a Turbo and re-map will unlock the extra performance a FMIC will allow/unlock but there is evidence to suggest that it would be an improvment on it's own....

Matt

Dizzy

WR-Mike 1) Please turn the caps lock key off... your giving me a headache

Kevin:
lmfao run for your life mate... I can feel the flames from here
still 25hp for over a grand isn't exactly cheep

WR-MIKE

Dizzy,
sorry, bad habit, I'm at work and all of my work related text is in caps, I'll try to remember to turn it off in future.
also re your comment "25 bhp for a grand isn't exactly cheep" could you suggest a mod that I can put on my std car that will give me an extra 25 bhp for less than the cost of a fmic.
cheers,
Mike.

Moles Dad

P20SPD, you are not wrong m8 !!!

WR-MIKE, you would probably benefit more with a full de-cat exhaust and either a 'dawes device' or an electronic boost controller.

If you look at prices of ebc against a 'proper' ecu upgrade such as the Ecutek you will see that for a little more you can have a custom re-map which as far as I can see is preferable.

I had (and still have) minimal knowlege on this, and at the time thought a de-cat, fmic and a boost controller was all that I required!!!

Time marches on, and with that my knowlege too

Mods...UK 99 PPP with de-cat, induction, Pace fmic, HKS ebc iv, HKS ssq running 1.3bar producing 290bhp and about 270lbs torque...nowhere near some uk cars, but I have not (yet) gone bigger turbo or been inside the engine

Not too bad for an old bus to use for work

Adam M

sorry hyperflow, but stefs car with your intercooler on it was laggy.

I dont know where this nonsense abotu jealousy comes into it as I have a front mount on mine and would recommend it to anyone.

If you are running low boost, then your turbo is not working incredibly hard as it is, so the cooling differences between a more and less efficient intercooler wont be as pronounced.

If it wasn't v hot before, its not going to cool much further now especially as heat flow is driven by a temperature gradient.


I am not saying dont get a fmic, just that I think you would do better getting a hybrid or at least a vf series turbo first and then a remap of some kind.

and btw, dynos may well produce an extra 25hp at the wheels, but then the fans point straight at the fmic, and so favour them enormously over a tmic.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

you would think that the rr places that do alot of scoobs would have developed a device that splits the air from the fan to the front of the car and the bonnet scoop area.

sorry did not mean to hijack the thread, just seen this comment quite a few times.

it sounds simple to make some sort of deflector for the fan at the rolling road or is it just me?

Moles Dad

Is it me or would it not be easier to put an additional fan onto the scoop...suspend it with wire rope or chain...job done!

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

hey presto

simple or what. now all we need to do is convince the rr guys

Dizzy

WR-Mike as you state you've already got a full decat (as moles dad suggests) consider Tec2 or Dawes device.. if you do a search you'll find LOADS of Topics

or you could just look here where I've posted the unoficial Drivetrain faq (compiled by John IIRC).

Adam M

it has been done several times.

they can aim the fan upwards, put it on blocks, or use a second fan but the mass airflow through the scoop is nowhere near that which is incident on the fmic.

Plus you still need cooling to the rad.

I would just accept it as the way it is rather than try to fix it. rolling roads are so crap anyway that there is bugger all point trying to perfect them.

WR-MIKE

Dizzy,
as I said earlier in the thread my intensions are a larger turbo, fmic and re-map.
the reason I posted the question about the fmic on a std car is that due to cash flow resrictions I can't afford all 3 items at the same time so I was going to get and install the fmic and then wait until I have saved up the dosh for the turbo & re map. But I didn't want to go blindly ahead & either damage the engine or drop the performance. The problem is I have got conflicting info ie: one person says it will lower the performance, others say it will increase the performance. I guess I'll go with the majority.

Mike.

Adam M

lol,

look at it this way.

both are good things to buy,

but if you buy them in one order there is controversy as to whether you will suffer a performance drop, but in the other direction, there isnt.

if in doubt buy the turbo first, they are about the same price anyway!

The really intelligent thing to do is find out who knows what tey are talking about and email them directly.

I can help you with this.

bob rawle
patrick herborn (pat)
mark aigin (R19KET)

if you do this, then you have nothing to lose.

also could try trout

all the above have extensive experience of hybrids and front mounts, I do too, but understandably my word alone wasnt enough.

Trout Bob and Mark all managed incredible power figures with top mounts.

WR-MIKE

Adam,
Can I just bolt a turbo straight on & away I go ? (I assumed I would need a re-map).
cheers,
Mike.
p.s. what does lol mean ? (excuse my ignorance I'm new at this)

Adam M

lol = laughing out loud.

there are dangers to any of the mods you are considering.

on a standard ecu the car has a maf sensor which detects hwo much air is flowing into the engine, the ecu fuels accordingly.

If you run a fmic the air charge will be cooler and therefore more dense, meaning more fuel is required to keep the air/fuel ratio the same.

If you run a hybrid, then at high boost it flow more air at the top but less at the bottom of the rev range than the standard turbo. meaning at one point of the map it will require more fuel, but at the other it will require less fuel.

The standard ecu can cope with this to some extent, and the standard car runs rich so that it has a safety margin. By fitting a larger turbo you will be eaking into this.

By fitting a fmic after this you will compound the risk as the standard rich map starts to become isufficient to fuel enough for the two mods.

At this point you really need a remap.

There is also the fact that you do reall need a remap to take full advantage of the mods.

WR-MIKE

Cheers Adam, all that sounds logical. I think it's time to email either yourself or one of the guy's you mentioned earlier in regard to which turbo, fmic, re-map and any other things I need to do to the car to get what I want.
are all the people you mentioned ok with a newbie emailing them with possibly daft questions?
Mike.

Adam M

all I have mentioned will have no problem what so ever. none of them bite and everything they say can be pretty much trusted.

if in doubt open it to the other two!

Andy.F

""If you run a fmic the air charge will be cooler and therefore more dense, meaning more fuel is required to keep the air/fuel ratio the same.""

Adam

Can you explain how the Mass Airflow Meter does not account for the increased density ?

Andy

Adam M

andy,


I said this statement first

"on a standard ecu the car has a maf sensor which detects hwo much air is flowing into the engine, the ecu fuels accordingly".

I then said this

"The standard ecu can cope with this to some extent, and the standard car runs rich so that it has a safety margin. By fitting a larger turbo you will be eaking into this.

By fitting a fmic after this you will compound the risk as the standard rich map starts to become isufficient to fuel enough for the two mods."


whats the problem there, or have I missed your point?

Trout...

WR-MIKE,

personally I would go for a turbo and remap long before going for a FMIC. Good for show - not much difference in go

Seriously - up until very recently I have consistently had 345bhp on the PE RR running with a top-mount - almost certainly compromised on the RR in terms of absolute cooling. Bob Rawle has had similar figures (both cars Sti Vs).

On the road the TMIC was even better than the RR figures suggest - especially against FMIC cars with apparently more RR power.

I have finally gone for a FMIC - however this is primarily as the car is being focused on trouncing Ferraris on track - as they never pull over a few extra horses will be very valuable

Going for an FMIC will be mostly irreversible as there is a lot of cutting etc.

My very strong recommendation would be to go for a Turbo and some sort of remap - if you do not have the ECU already - then a remap first could give you a surprise.

Trout