john banks

You know I can't shut up when I do anything to my car

This IHI VF hybrid from Turbo Dynamics and Mark Aigin (R19 KET) is truly fabulous.

At 7-8% CO it is getting my 440s to about 90% in third gear at 6700 RPM on a warm day at 1.1 bar. The airflow is about 4.68 V on Delta Dash which is actually off the scale for the MAF sensor with the standard JECS map for it so I will need to rescale the MAF sensor with the provided map

I am reaching 1 bar at 3200 RPM, but I have a few more tricks to get that lower - maybe I'll get it 3000-3100 RPM. I have a Scoobysport manifold, which perhaps pushes this a bit higher.

The thing just goes absolutely ape from 4000 RPM and increases airflow all the way up to and beyond 7000 RPM except I have tapered it for safety from the midrange of 1.25 bar.

I can run a lot more advance and the intake temperature for the same boost is about 10 degrees C lower.

Needed some tweaking of the restrictors (down to 0.7mm) to get the spool up and top end I wanted - was dropping top end boost with the 1.1mm one.

Thanks again to the dynamic duo Andy F and T-uk

http://www.johnbanks.dsl.pipex.com/D...2 21-12.46.csv

See the Delta Dash log file above This is a third gear drag from 1500 to 7000 RPM, so boost comes in a bit later, but the airflow is very impressive compared to what I am used to.

http://www.johnbanks.dsl.pipex.com/D...2 21-39.54.csv

This second log is with the original TD04 hybrid during a similar run in similar conditions. Everything on the car is the same except the map which is richer and more retarded and running higher boost. Note the adverse effects of flogging a smaller turbo compared to letting the bigger turbo work more easily.

[Edited by john banks - 7/21/2002 11:00:43 PM]

Pavlo

Very nice, although might I suggest you remove the speed column....

Bit of a lean spot at low revs too.

BTW, you could get a torque/power curve from that, seeing as you have speed, time, weight of car, drag, frontal area, and a good estimate of rolling resistance. Although I will leave you to figure that out for yourself.

Paul

Pavlo

oh yes, to redo maf curves, put the lot into excel, create a 4th power trendline and you should find a good curve. Then it becomes easy to create a set of figures at any interval.

Paul

john banks

They were not run on the same bit of road, but I should try Andy's AP22

Pavlo

You have all the info you need to do a fairly decent measurement.

If I get the time I will do it and send you the spreadsheet, it's not rocket science.

Paul

R19KET

John,

1) 550cc injectors.
2) Some serious mapping time.
3) uprated clutch.
4) uprated gearbox.
5) uprated diff's.
6) Engine re-build.
7) BIGGER TURBO
8) Day on an engine dyno
9) Second mortgage

john banks

Airflow in volts (MAF sensor) RPM from 2000 to 7000 in 500 RPM steps sorry for being lazy in Excel. Remember the airflow is not linear - the difference looks small but is massive on the road, and the big turbo one has only had a short time spent mapping it and was tested at lower boost on a hotter day. See second graph for boost in PSI vs RPM as before. Sorry mixed up big and small on second graph.







[Edited by john banks - 7/21/2002 11:27:47 PM]

john banks

Mark don't tempt me. The 440s ceiling is stopping me going mad for now And it is not like I can get a massive amount more by leaning it out as I have already done that.

Can't find the lean spot on the big turbo log Paul - off boost yes, but comes up nicely on boost and it is quite a lot richer than JECS would be as standard off boost to aid spool up - would you want it richer still?

[Edited by john banks - 7/21/2002 11:36:24 PM]

R19KET

John,

is the 02 sensor reading voltage, or lambda ? and can you DL IPW in ms ?

Mark. 550, 550, 550.............

Mr J

John..you can always get a FPR...then the 550..WI..
btw..what is the MD304 hybrid based on ???

/Kvarnis

carlos_hiraoka

John, is the MD304, a VF22 inlet with a P18 exhaust housing (if you are getting 1bar at 3000rpm probably it is a P18 housing) ?????

cArLoS h.

Pavlo

Front O2 sensor voltage falls to 0.15v at 1942 rpm. Seems a little lean from 1749 to 2255rpm.

Unless the lambda sensor isn't properly warmed.

Paul

john banks

I chose IDC as it was easy to look over when I was thrashing it to see if I was in trouble.

The lambda is in volts so 0.880 is about 8 %.

That area low down is off boost and doesn't seem too lean when you consider the low airflow - and it is a heck of a lot less lean than the standard car is at that sort of airflow at those engine speeds - the very low levels are more the sensor rather than some sudden leanness - the fuelling map is quite smooth from lean to rich. If it was spooling up like a TD04 I agree it would be, but there is hadrly any boost in this area, and it drives smoothly. I might throw in some extra fuel and see if it helps, but previously when I tried similar at these sorts of engine speeds it did not after you had put in a bit.

Yes it is a P18 housing. Mark would be able to say better what has been done exactly.

There has to be a point to stop guys, and for a few weeks at least this is it

Pavlo

Worth noting that at the ecu probably doesn't compensate for the fact that the injector solenoid doesn't follow the square wave form that the ecu throws out. There is a ramp up and ramp down delay.

These delays will be more pronounced on larger injectors, but also at very low pulse widths. It could be that although the map defines a certain amount of fuel, the actual fuelling is less, due to the time it takes for injector to fully open.

This might explain why you are running leaner than the map woud suggest.

Obviously, this doesn't matter if you are keeping the revs well into the usable power band.

Paul

john banks

I hear you Paul, but it doesn't look lean to me when you consider the airflow - clearly the lambda absolute value is useless as it is too near to stoich there, but then it comes out and builds smoothy as boost comes on. It drives great through this range though. How rich would you want it? As I say I have added considerably to the standard fuel map in this area already.

Bring on the wideband and all the other toys

dowser

Thanks John,

Very interesting - you're shoving more air than my vf23 running higher boost, lol!

Comparing with mine (stock JECS PPP) it's nice to see I should be able to get my IDC below 90% after remapping (currently 95% - how hard can you push IDC?) to remove fuel at the top end. I also have some idea of just how much fuel needs to be added earlier on (Paul - you think John's is lean? Between 2k6 and 2k9 mine doesn't get above .8v....good job there's no boost ).

Let me know if you want me to email my logs.

Richard
PS: Group buy on injectors?!

Pavlo

550cc injectors, £40+vat each if you know where to look....

Paul

Mr J

And the magic place for the injectors is.. ???

/Kvarnis

Pavlo

Yes, that's right magic.

john banks

Please email me your latest logs Dowser and tell me what gear etc- the above logs were third gear from 1500 to 7000 RPM so don't get the highest possible airflow.

Your IDC will fall a bit if you lean it out.

I could put in a lot more midrange from the injectors point of view. I might try about 1.35 bar in the midrange dropping to similar as presently.

Need to get either FPR or 550s.

Where can I get 550s for 40 each pray tell mail offline if preferred

Damn, I was going to stop two days ago where I am

dowser

Paul - bean-spill please

Richard
Logs emailed John - 3rd gear, flat autobahn, 2k5 to 6k5, ambient around 15 degrees c

Pavlo

Sorry, there are limited numbers of these 550s available, and took me ages to find them.

So I am keeping quiet, but I am sure you can source them if you try, there are places out there.

Paul

Alex NL

Dowser,

Are you running a PPP along with a VF23?
If so, tell me.............all about it!

Alex.

[Edited by Alex NL - 7/25/2002 12:12:02 AM]

Moles Dad

Good for you John!

dowser

Alex - currently, yes. Will be a tek3 after this weekend

In my opinion the PPP ecu copes pretty well with this mod, except for the obvious boost control issues (that are present with even the td04!) - I just use a dawes and knock/lambda monitoring in-car.

I actually see it as a safety mod - given you're running the same boost levels then the charge is much cooler and back-pressure reduced....the car flies

But, whatever you do, do *not* fit a new manifold and a bigger turbo unless you can remap the ecu, lol

Richard
PS: uprate the fuel pump at the same time!

Hoppy

John, please remind me - what have you got on the intake side? ITG panel filter and uprated TMIC? Which one? Any transmission mods yet?

If your car doesn't go bang in the next few weeks, I might have to give you and Mark another call...

Best regards,

Richard.

PS For those that don't know, my UK00 car is running the hybrid TD04L turbo mentioned above, full decat exhaust, ETG panel filter and a Tek3 remap by John Banks. Total cost £2,000 including fitting is not much more than a PPP but I've now got around 300 ftlbs of torque at 3,100 and 290 bhp at 6,300 in a superbly driveable package. Highly recommended and, I think, reliable.

Andy.F

John

Correct me if I'm wrong.... your deltadash log shows your car now accelerates from 50 - 90 in 3 seconds with the new turbo.
50 - 90 was 6 seconds with the hybrid TD04. (80 > 144kph)

Is it really twice as fast

Must arrange a meet to try my AP22 on it

Andy

john banks

No 5.1 Andy - you were looking at RPM rather than time

Andy.F

Doh ! You had me worried there nearly spent more money to catch up

dowser