Up-Pipe
08 February 2002, 05:11 PM
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Right, sorted at last!
The first batch of 20
flanges were made with holes just for bolts so we've agreed to weld up 2 of the holes and tap them for studs. These are the 2 front most turbo mounting studs which justs can't be got at, the other 3 holes can use nuts and bolts as they are accessible...ish...
So now for the price...
65 GBP inc Vat + Del for a solid pipe to suit the 'classic' shape Impreza (and EJ20T legacy)
The pipes have to be made in batches of at least 5 to get this price, so are there more than 5 of you interested?
It might be possible to fit an expansion joint in the solid pipe, but it will add at least another 50 GBP to the price. Having looked at the mounting brackets for the up pipe, I've realised that they can be adjusted for fit, and that the up pipe is in effect structural in that it supports the turbo, I just wonder whether an expansion joint is wise...
I need to find out the thread size for and position for the Temperature probe boss on the MY01 cars to sort out a pipe for them, hopefully the price shouldn't be more than 5 GBP more...
Mail me if you want one of these up pipes!
Edit to add: Lead time approximately 2 to 3 weeks at the moment.
[Edited by Tim W - 8/2/2002 6:09:31 PM]
The first batch of 20
flanges were made with holes just for bolts so we've agreed to weld up 2 of the holes and tap them for studs. These are the 2 front most turbo mounting studs which justs can't be got at, the other 3 holes can use nuts and bolts as they are accessible...ish... So now for the price...
65 GBP inc Vat + Del for a solid pipe to suit the 'classic' shape Impreza (and EJ20T legacy)
The pipes have to be made in batches of at least 5 to get this price, so are there more than 5 of you interested?It might be possible to fit an expansion joint in the solid pipe, but it will add at least another 50 GBP to the price. Having looked at the mounting brackets for the up pipe, I've realised that they can be adjusted for fit, and that the up pipe is in effect structural in that it supports the turbo, I just wonder whether an expansion joint is wise...
I need to find out the thread size for and position for the Temperature probe boss on the MY01 cars to sort out a pipe for them, hopefully the price shouldn't be more than 5 GBP more...
Mail me if you want one of these up pipes!
Edit to add: Lead time approximately 2 to 3 weeks at the moment.
[Edited by Tim W - 8/2/2002 6:09:31 PM]
08 February 2002, 07:49 PM
#2
I nearly bought one today from GGR...
Glad I didn't, Put me down for one no doubt about it.
Is it possibly to have a boss with a 1/8" BSP (tapered pipe thread) as this is the standard size for stainless themocouple fittings. In fact it may be what the new engines use.....
If not, no big problem, I will just braze a fitting straight on.
Paul
edited for speilling
[Edited by Pavlo - 8/2/2002 7:50:21 PM]
Glad I didn't, Put me down for one no doubt about it.
Is it possibly to have a boss with a 1/8" BSP (tapered pipe thread) as this is the standard size for stainless themocouple fittings. In fact it may be what the new engines use.....
If not, no big problem, I will just braze a fitting straight on.
Paul
edited for speilling
[Edited by Pavlo - 8/2/2002 7:50:21 PM]
07 May 2002, 11:31 PM
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Bummer...
Knackered/split at end- dunno. PS spotted it, and it screwed my performance once at PE. Didnt help when I had a fire in the engine bay when I got a new turbo fitted (again) a while ago -oil over turbo
Thats a technical one for Steve Lawson/Pete/Bob Rawle/Adam
[Edited by steve McCulloch - 7/5/2002 11:33:44 PM]
Knackered/split at end- dunno. PS spotted it, and it screwed my performance once at PE. Didnt help when I had a fire in the engine bay when I got a new turbo fitted (again) a while ago -oil over turbo
Thats a technical one for Steve Lawson/Pete/Bob Rawle/Adam
[Edited by steve McCulloch - 7/5/2002 11:33:44 PM]
07 June 2002, 12:43 AM
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Once any scale/deposits are gone, then it will be totally clean. The turbine blade is more resilient than you think. After all, the std manifolds are just cast iron ( basically ), and the link pipes between the cast sections are only mild steel I think. They arent stainless?? The Up pipe with the HKS GT Turbine Kit is only mild steel, and The manifolds I made for my V8, pic posted a while ago, are just made from plumbers black iron tubing. Never had any real problems from deposits from the tubing doing any harm on other cars I have made manifolds for. ( apart fromm the welds cracking )
Most people buying things like that, like them to be all shiny, hence the stainless bit. One bad thing about stainless is the fact that it expands a lot more than mild steel, so it actually isnt that ideal for turbo manifolds, as expansion will be more of a problem, which a subaru will be more affected by than some other cars.
Mild steel works. Stainless is for the polishers. The up-pipe would hardly ever rust, due to the heat that it would be constantly exposed to, exhaust systems are stainless for that reason. So they are shiny, and dont rust. Most HKS systems, while extortionately priced, are made from mild steel ( aluminized for rust protection ) mainly as it is quieter I think.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 7/6/2002 12:45:24 AM]
Most people buying things like that, like them to be all shiny, hence the stainless bit. One bad thing about stainless is the fact that it expands a lot more than mild steel, so it actually isnt that ideal for turbo manifolds, as expansion will be more of a problem, which a subaru will be more affected by than some other cars.
Mild steel works. Stainless is for the polishers. The up-pipe would hardly ever rust, due to the heat that it would be constantly exposed to, exhaust systems are stainless for that reason. So they are shiny, and dont rust. Most HKS systems, while extortionately priced, are made from mild steel ( aluminized for rust protection ) mainly as it is quieter I think.
[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 7/6/2002 12:45:24 AM]
05 July 2002, 06:36 PM
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I wanted an Up pipe for my car this weekend. Why does nobody in the UK have one in stock???? And what the f**k are people doing about the price of these things??? They range from £85+vat from GGR, to a whopping £300 for a flexi MRT item???? Its only a bit of pipe about 18" long. A lot are asking £200. Its not as if there is a lot of technical design gone into it. I Think rip off sounds familiar. I know stainless steel looks good, but why dont some people make them in mild steel, it would work perfectly for it, and bring the cost down a little. Although stainless steel pipe isnt that expensive to buy anyway. It seems everyone I phoned is expecting delivery next week??????? Might just end up making my own, since no-one is able to supply one, no matter what the price!
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05 July 2002, 10:26 PM
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have you seen the headers Midland Impreza are selling . Its mild steel HKS copy and only £450. I agree with the up pipe comments. i know of two people who want them as well as myself
05 July 2002, 11:25 PM
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They dont have any either. What do you mean the original didnt last that long??? What happened it? At that price Id expect it to last the lifetime of the car.
06 July 2002, 12:34 AM
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Not sure that mild steel is suitable for pre-turbo pipes. The temperatures involved cause scaling of the surface, this scale then comes off and hits the exhaust turbine wheel. It will only take this for so long !!!
06 July 2002, 12:56 AM
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Having cut an original link pipe with a hacksaw and I can assure you it's not mild steel !! Mild steel actually degrades with each major heat cycle (600C+), scale forms each cycle, the end result is a very brittle metal which cracks.
There are many grades of steel between common low carbon(mild) steel and a high grade 316 or similar stainless steel. I think it is a higher Nickel content steel that is frequently used for manifolds. Cast iron is also a good material, this is what high grade racing disc brakes are made from to handle the heat cycles.
There are many grades of steel between common low carbon(mild) steel and a high grade 316 or similar stainless steel. I think it is a higher Nickel content steel that is frequently used for manifolds. Cast iron is also a good material, this is what high grade racing disc brakes are made from to handle the heat cycles.
06 July 2002, 08:37 AM
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I'm having some up pipes made for the 1st generation Scoob at the moment, it's takern ages because the place making them have moved to a new premises and then they went on Holiday 
Target price is going to be around 70 quid all in I hope, and maybe a little more for the MY01 on cars...
Hopefully I'll get my mits on one this coming week!
Target price is going to be around 70 quid all in I hope, and maybe a little more for the MY01 on cars...
Hopefully I'll get my mits on one this coming week!
06 July 2002, 11:29 AM
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High nickel content cast iron..As I say tho, I have never had any problems with scale etc when making manifolds out of plumbers black iron tubing, and the HKS Up pipe with their GT Turbine kit is mild steel, so I wouldnt worry
06 July 2002, 11:42 AM
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The Up Pipes that I'm having made will be stainless steel, as will the flanges, I'll be doing a veersion for the old shape GC8 model scoob and for the new shape GDB.
Havinf spoken to the fabricator this morning I should be getting the prototype early next week so that I can check it out for size and mark up where the boss needs to be for the GDB Lambda probe.
Havinf spoken to the fabricator this morning I should be getting the prototype early next week so that I can check it out for size and mark up where the boss needs to be for the GDB Lambda probe.
06 July 2002, 04:58 PM
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Tim W... any chance of getting me one??
What bore pipe are they...
Mail me with details if possible.
David
What bore pipe are they...
Mail me with details if possible.
David
07 July 2002, 07:30 AM
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David, if my memory is any good I asked them to make the pipes about the same diameter has the widest part of the standard up pipe, which means that they will be somewhere around 65mm OD, so assuming a 1mm wall 63mm ID.
08 July 2002, 08:36 AM
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Just a thought, but would it not be possible (on an MY01) to remove the original up-pipe, take out the catalyst bit inside (by fair means or brute force 
) and then re-attach the pipe? - Instant de-cat 
So far, I've done the downpipe, the two centres and backbox (all Scoobysport) and I'm just considering the options for the up-pipe.
Chris
) and then re-attach the pipe? - Instant de-cat So far, I've done the downpipe, the two centres and backbox (all Scoobysport) and I'm just considering the options for the up-pipe.
Chris
08 July 2002, 09:34 PM
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Andrew, not having an MY01 to hand I beleive that the difference is a boss for a Lambda sensor.
Chris can I borrow your car I need an 01 to check out what the differnces needed are, hopefully sometime this week?
Chris can I borrow your car
I need an 01 to check out what the differnces needed are, hopefully sometime this week?
09 July 2002, 12:31 PM
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annoying isnt it when you want something quickly??
Hurry up Tim... Ill check fitment
David
Hurry up Tim... Ill check fitment
David
09 July 2002, 12:48 PM
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sorry to join in with a TH1CK comment - but what does the up-pipe do? Where is it? Near the down-pipe? Or connected between engine and turbo? Whats the advantage of fitting a new one? Only if old one is dead?
09 July 2002, 01:49 PM
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It's really only worth changing the up-pipe if either your old on is damaged, or your taking the manifold/turbo off anyway.
I is possible to change one without removing the manifold (you have to lift the engine off it's mountings though ), but the turbo does have to come off.
It would seem that on the 1st generation scoob the only reason to change is for improved flow when your running a whole load of other mods and more boost. The standard pipe tends to split near the expansion joint on cars that run more than 1 bar of boost.
For the 2nd generation scoob (MY01 on) the up-pipe has a Cat in it, so the benefits are more obvious!
David,
Your suggestion to check it out isn't a bad idea at all...drop me an e-mail with your phone number and I'll talk to you off line
I is possible to change one without removing the manifold (you have to lift the engine off it's mountings though
), but the turbo does have to come off.It would seem that on the 1st generation scoob the only reason to change is for improved flow when your running a whole load of other mods and more boost. The standard pipe tends to split near the expansion joint on cars that run more than 1 bar of boost.
For the 2nd generation scoob (MY01 on) the up-pipe has a Cat in it, so the benefits are more obvious!
David,
Your suggestion to check it out isn't a bad idea at all...drop me an e-mail with your phone number and I'll talk to you off line
11 July 2002, 01:52 PM
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I have the prototype Up-pipe at my feet as I type!
I will be checking fitment later this week, and may need to make some revisions based on what I've seen.
The pipe diameter is 45mm ID, 50mm OD.
Unfortunately the top flange was made without studs, and it will need to be changed.
I will be checking fitment later this week, and may need to make some revisions based on what I've seen.
The pipe diameter is 45mm ID, 50mm OD.
Unfortunately the top flange was made without studs, and it will need to be changed.
11 July 2002, 02:06 PM
#28
SS pipe uses 47mm ID 50mm OD I think.
I would have said a 1.5-2mm wall thickness was adequate.
Turbo inlet is 47-48mm ID, tapering down into the turbine housing.
As long as top flange has correct threaded holes it should be fine. Not sure what the bolts are, either imperial, about 3/8"unf or metric M10 fine.
Sure someone knows this
Paul
I would have said a 1.5-2mm wall thickness was adequate.
Turbo inlet is 47-48mm ID, tapering down into the turbine housing.
As long as top flange has correct threaded holes it should be fine. Not sure what the bolts are, either imperial, about 3/8"unf or metric M10 fine.
Sure someone knows this
Paul
13 July 2002, 09:56 AM
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Tim
Sorry only just seen your reply - you are welcome to come for a test drive I shall wait for your finished up-pipe and see whether I could consider doing the same to mine. Anyone got any thoughts on my suggestion to simply reuse the existing up-pipe with no cat inside it?
Chris
Sorry only just seen your reply - you are welcome to come for a test drive
I shall wait for your finished up-pipe and see whether I could consider doing the same to mine. Anyone got any thoughts on my suggestion to simply reuse the existing up-pipe with no cat inside it?Chris