Markus

Have a read here

Not sure how many cases of this there have been in the UK.

jiffthejiffmanjaffa

iTrader: (10)

It's not right to use someone elses connection, but it's more immoral as opposed to being illegal.

Is it really in the public interest to prosecute for it, I don't think so, what a waste of time and money.

bob269

Isnt it the same as wiring up to your neighbours electric and using their power for free, its something you are paying for which somebody is stealing, why shouldnt they prosecute?

Markus

Just out of curiosity, if someone was abusing your wireless connection in this way, and sat outside your house and downloaded gigs worth of torrents which put you over your download limit (let's say it's one of those "unlimited" plans, which really aren't that unlimited) and the ISP then started to charge you for the extra bandwidh you used. Would you not want something to be done about this chap?

Iain Young

Or if said person started downloading dodgy stuff like kiddie **** or something. The ISP records would say that you did it...

bob269

I believe also the RIAA in america have prosecuted someone for allegedly downloading illegal files which the house owner (some good fairing old lady) believes was actually done by somebody stealing the wifi

boxst

I must admit to doing this occasionally. Only occasionally when I am out and about and want to quickly do something. Nothing malicious, I'm not permantly connected and/or downloading anything dodgy.

I'm suprised to see the community police officers doing something useful...

Steve

BigGT3Fan

I am surprised the onus is not on the individual to secure their network TBH!

ShyTot

It is a bit like this, but to complete the analogy: -

It's the same as wiring up to your neighbours electric, but only after they have installed their plug sockets all over your house.

If they put standard plug sockets all over my house, I'm going to use them!!!

Markus

As usual, when a story like this comes up on slashdot, there is the typical argumement that if you don't secure your wireless network then you are intending for it to be open. Sorry but I don't agree with that. If you leave your bike on your front lawn, then does that mean anyone can use it? If you leave the front door to your house open, does that mean anyone can walk in off the street?

I'd say the majority of these unsecured access points are such because the owners are not that tech savvy, they just plug it in, power it up and see they can do what they need wirelessly and don't bother to change anything. Perhaps manufacturers should force users to enter at least a new network name and a WEP key (ok, I know that's pretty insecure, but it's got to be better than nothing at all) as part of the install procedure. Or simply set a default password on the unit, and put this in the documentation, and prompt the user on powerup of the device wether they wish to change it. Now at least there is some very limited protection. If someone jumps onto your network then they will have been required to enter a password, they won't just be given access, and therefore the person cannot claim "it just connected automatically". In this setup allow for a totally unsecure access point, but make them have to go via the admin interface to set it up.

Sonic'

I thought a number of wireless devices were now coming pre setup with at least a WEP key and some kind of encryption enabled to try and resolve this issue ?

TBH it wouldnt be difficult for the manufacturers to implement a bit of code that forced you to set wep/wpa and change the password on initial connection/setup

The Onus is on the owner to ensure their network is secure, but also its the same Onus that makes us lock our front doors, take our bikes in etc to stop them being stolen etc

SwissTony

iTrader: (19)

why did i read the title as man using someone else's WIFE ??

thought, well that aint uncommon

BigGT3Fan

I think that's the point, it is quite possible to accidentally connect to a neighbours AP if you are not technical and they've left it open - I know someone who bought broadband and a WAP, thought they were using it for 3 months before I came over and determined they were using the neighbours :P

IMHO they shouldn't be charged with anything for that - the manufacturer should make them secure out of the box (I appreciate this is more common now)

AllenJ

In these three cases, I'm sure none of you will show sympathy to the victim(s) if ....

1: a bank account is cleared out, because the victim left the cash card in the machine

2: Car was stolen because the victim left the key in the ignition

3: House was burgled whilst on holiday because the front door was left wide open.

Moral of the story is, if you have broadband get a firewall. If you have a wireless connection, secure it. I personally think peeps who do not secure their wireless connection should be prosecuted.

AllenJ

Some very good points there sir, but i have to disagree with some.
There is always a manual with every gadget bought. If not sure, there are always techies to ask. Ignorance is no excuse.

Bodgit

just because people can gain access does not mean they are entitled to use it. I am sure many of you have cordless phones around the house. If someone managed to connect to this technology I am sure you would all class that as theft.
Also if the person was paying for a brodband connection with a capped download usage then it would be theft if they went over that and incurred charges.

here is section 1 of the computer misuse act 1990

1 Unauthorised access to computer material (1) A person is guilty of an offence if—
(a) he causes a computer to perform any function with intent to secure access to any program or data held in any computer;
(b) the access he intends to secure is unauthorised; and
(c) he knows at the time when he causes the computer to perform the function that that is the case.


I would say section b covers it. Ignorance to law does not make it a legal act.

AudiHater

Most service providers have clauses in their contract to cover third party access. If someone is on your wifi you are technically a service provider and I'm sure it won't be long before someone tries to sue a neighbour for having an unsecured connection just like theives who get hit breaking into a house.

hux309

The onus should be on the person who owns the network, it's like a big neon sign screaming hey free wireless internet.

Those who moan and fuss are those who aren't that tech savvy and wouldn't know the difference between a router and a modem.

All networks ive setup for friends either have wireless disabled or use a wpa-psk key.

boxst

On the flip side, I do not secure my wireless network but do portscan and document check anyone who connects to it

Steve

Jaybird-UK

You could argue that the guy 'electronically' asked permision...


DHCP Request = Can I have an IP address on your network and use it?

ASSIGNED IP = Yes, here you go stranger, this is your IP address

ergo, permission granted



Personally I feel the onus should be on the owner to secure their own router

Sonic'

Not strictly true, you only get the IP address once you have connected to the wireless

So you have to illegally connect to the wireless before asking for an ip address

even if secured by mac address filtering etc, you can actually still connect to the wireless, you will just never be given an ip address, unless your Mac is the same

Bodgit

So along the same lines, there is an unsecured £10 note lying on the side in someones house so you can take it. Or how about you open someones fridge and the light comes on as an invitation to take whatever you like.

Theft is theft, more to the point, you leave your front door ajar and your car keys are on the side, is that an invitation to take your car because you hadnt secured your keys. the thief has entered the premises be it physically or digitally.

It's a crime no matter how you justify it.

Jaybird-UK

Firstly Im not justifying, Im putting an alternate argument (that was actually on slashdot) for the purpose of discussion.

Your analogy doesnt work because taking the car as per your example leaves you with no car, car gone. WiFi theft doesnt actually remove your internet access leaving you with nothing does it?

Indeed it is, totally agree.

bob269

If you are caught with a dodgy cable or sky box accessing all channels, do you think it would wash saying well they should of secured their network better, everybody saying its the persons responsibility to protect themselves are morons, theft is theft, just because they dont secure themselves doesnt mean you are free to use it.

Jaybird-UK

Fair point Sonic

Jaybird-UK

Having set up a few DSLs, I have noticed that a lot ofISPs are shipping their wireless routers pre-secured which is good. Cetainly the likes of BT and Sky Broadband ship secure.

Sonic'

Many years ago, didn't a hacker get off after hacking a windows server?

In court he said that he wasn't hacking, he was invited to login as the logon screen said 'Welcome to Windows, please press CTRL ALT DEL to logon'

So he said it was an invitation

IIRC it was the old NT 3.51 or NT 4 days

bob269

I thought the idea of ctrl alt del was that its impossible to circumvent, once logged in yes the system is hackable but i thought you cant mimic those key presses?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Thus leading to a new tenth commandment...

Though shalt not covet thy neighbour's wifi!

Sonic'

Yes you can mimic them, or at least send them remotely, thats what most remote control software does

Logmein.com
PC Anywhere
Dameware

etc etc etc