subsy

http://downloads.game.net/game.net/movies/x360/pgr3.mov

nuff said

chump

some actual in game footage would convince me more.....

Fuchsrohre

So the cycle begins - pre-release hype...

Cast you rmind back to pre-release footage of Playstation2 driving games, most notable being Gran Turismo 3. Everybody was "blown away" by the shiny environment mapping, and lighting effects. When it came to playing it, it was the same stuff basically, with lots of eye candy thrown in.

I'm wondering if we reached a plateau with driving games, where throwing more eye candy at a franchise doesn't particularly add much to the experience.

Hopefully the extra horsepower can be used not just for graphics, but for more advanced physics and damge modelling.

As for XBOX360 and PS3, I doubt there'll be much difference in the 1st generation of games, to what there is now on XBOX and PS2. You can liken it to the first games that appeared on PS2 - Ridge Racer & Tekken - they weren't that far removed from PS1 games although were an improvement.

Seen it all before (yawn!)

ex-webby

I take it you havent seen the Hi-Def demo's on the MS website concerning some of the games on the XBOX360!?!?

Regardless of hype (in my years of console gaming since the Megadrive/SNES) MS have done the least amount of hype building we have become to expect.

Those demo's mentioned above look absolutely stunning for a console. Ok... PC gaming seems to be at the same level graphics wise from those demo's, but at what cost of PC spec (£300+ just for the graphics card). For something that retails at £210, it is pretty much delivering (from those demo's) as had been promised.

Getting 720p from a console with that sort of detail is pretty awe inspiring if you ask me..... and all for £210.

If the PS3 is going to be even better than this, then the next 12 months will really be worth looking forward to.

Achieving these kinds of graphics in a console is a huge step forward for the masses.

I do however agree that playability makes a game, but no matter how much technology is involved, playability is something driven by other things other than technology (normally).

At the end of the day it can only help to improve things...... especially for us, the consumer.

Regards,
Shaun.

chump

i for one am really looking forward to the release of the Xbox 360 but it gets me really frustrated (and this is by no means limited to just the 360) when developers 'showcase' their games/new hardware with video after video of FMV. This is all pre-rendered stuff which gives no indication of what the game/console will look/play like IN GAME. And AFAIK the stuff above is actually pre-rendered on an Apple Mac G4 of all things......

It is really misleading and IMO in adverts for games they should be forced to put disclaimers in view which state that any FMV is NOT a true representation of the actual in-game experience......it would have saved me a few £££'s over the years....something which I don't get suckered in by these days

ex-webby

The demo's showcased on the MS website are mostly of in game stuff (not pre rendered), together with the obligatory FMV stuff. This was what people went crazy over, as so early on was real stuff available as opposed to *other* manufacturers only able to show pre-rendered stuff.

I do however appreciate non one can be sure of anything until the hardware and software is released...... even i'm not that green. But it all certainly looks promising.

Regards,
Shaun.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

If the in game graphics look that good it will be amazing, cars seemed to move like a Manga cartoon though which makes me think its just rendered. I am still always impressed by the Xbox and PS2 to be honest, the cars look pretty real anyway but I think telling the difference is going to get more difficult.

ScoobyDoo555

Nothing wrong with that Obviously the G5s were busy doing more important stuff

Dan

P1Fanatic

I thought TV's were the limiting factor for console gfx in terms of resolution?

Simon.

JackClark

Downscaling is never a problem.

Fuchsrohre

Taken from a recent article involving noted game developer Warren Spector
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/8/3

"For the sake of the industry, for the sake of gamers who want to experience something new and cool, for the sake of developers who want to do more than the same-old same-old, for the sake of our souls, we have to get out of this trap. If we don't, as developers, all we will be doing for the rest of eternity is making nicer road textures and better-lit car models for games with the same basic gameplay as Pole Position."

"And finally, there's the industry's attachment to "feature list" marketing. Online play? Check. Dozens of levels? Check. HDTV support? Check. You can often tell a game has nothing new to offer just by reading the backcover text: If it's basically a list of features and numbers (five of this and a hundred of that), you know they've really got nothing to say."

jbryant

There was a great article in an Xbox magazine I bought recently which had a feature mag on the 360. Stunning looking stuff ("Full Auto" - Burnout with guns, anyone?).

To follow up on Warren Spector ( ) I can't really disagree one iota. One of the comments in this mag was next to a screenshot of a wire-frame model and really said it all - There were > 400 polygons on the interior gearknob of one of these car models - more than was found on some of the better racing titles on the PS1. How does this actually help me and improve gameplay? Surely it just increases the cost of development without adding much in the way or real 'meat' to the product.

I don't think I *enjoy* games any more now than when I played the latest games 5, 10 or even 15 years ago. They were all gobsmacking at the time...

Still love the damn moneypits though
Joolz

Iain Young

I doubt it will have an effect. Most 3d models / graphics etc that are produced for games, are either created at a high poly count then reduced for the platform they are being put onto, or created with a low poly count in the first place.

If the console can handle higher poly counts, then it will simply mean that the artists will create their models (or reduce them) to a slightly different level of quality. It doesn't mean it will take any longer or use more resource.

jbryant

Of course!!! D'oh!
Mind not working. Friday p.m. syndrome...
Joolz
(goes away to hide in corner!)

Iain Young

ex-webby

Thats why you will need a HD Set to take advantage of the glorious extras!

Regards,
Shaun.

P1Fanatic

But then its not looking so cheap compared to a PC is it

Simon.

Fuchsrohre

Unfortunately, games running in HiDef mode will require more processing time to update & draw all the extra screen real estate every frame.

I still play most fps games in 800x600 on the PC. A regular PAL TV is what, 720x576 ? Given the choice of a game running at 50Hz in regular PAL or say 25Hz in Hi-Def, I'll take 50Hz every time!

eg. I'd rather play Doom III in 800x600 at a nice frame rate, compared to chugg-o-vision at 1024x768!! Actually Doom III is crap, but its a good example.

ex-webby

I doubt very much if any HiDef console will run 720 or 1080 at those kinds of low rates. These consoles are being developed to run these resolutions natively on all software, hence the grunt being provided by the next gen graphics tech. and the 3 core processors for the XBOX (with the PS3 supposed to be even better).

NeilT

a famous philisopher once wrote "graphics do not make a game" ....and I'd go along with him.....

Yes, the Xbox 360 does look stunning, but the majority of developers are churning out the same old tat time and time again, just new and improved graphics each time. So will the all important 'gameplay' be any better than, say a PS2, Xbox, or even PS1 - probably not. Lets face it, its the gameplay that hooks us on a game, not the eye candy.

For example, take Doom 3 (or almost any newish FPS) - far better graphics, than, say Half life/Quake, but nowhere near as much gameplay/fun, Command and Conquer series - same old game, better graphics, almost any racing game - Is the latest GT game for PS2 really any more fun to play than GT1?

What the games industry needs is some real innovation at the moment, and thats coming from painfully few software houses...most are still following each other like sheep

We need some more new and innovotive games, such as the old 'Black and White', 'Dungeon Keeper', 'HL', instead of the old stuff with a new paintjob

Neil

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

Well put it this way. The way the GFX are used in Splinter Cell are superb! The whole way they use the light and shaddows is something that is made all the better because of the improved GFX. The 360 will take those games to the next level!

Iain Young

Doom 3 runs at somewhere around 60fps at 1600x1200 and max detail on both my laptop and my desktop pcs. Doesn't stop it being a naff game though

ex-webby

NeilT,

FULLY appreciate what you say, but in all honesty if that was the case we would never of moved on from the ZX81 and Spectrum, SNES and MEGADRIVE etc etc!

Gameplay DOES make the game playable, but pushing the boundaries of what the hardware can actually do also helps things along.

Regards,
Shaun.

Smurf2k

iTrader: (6)

All I want to know is how long before its chipable? and how easy will the games be to copy? and at what price?

Maybe shud run a book on how long after launch date do we see the chips being easily available? I rekon inside a week before they are cracked....

Dream Weaver

You could try paying for games, copied games are a pile of ****e and a drain on the games industry.

As for the main discussion gameplay is the main part of any game, but I like the etxra touches you get in games these days with the increase in graphics performance. I like to see bits falling off cars in racing games, scenery you can actually crash into, moving spectators etc, it all adds up to the experience.

I do think we need to try something new though.

NeilT

indeed - my point being that we are now pushing the boundaries of graphics, and all but forgotton about gameplay. Yes, its great to play games with photorealistic visuals, but when the gameplay is linear and been done many times before, boredom quickly sets in.

For example, I have a PSP with Coded Arms, Ridge Racer, Wipeout pure and they look stunning.....yet the machine sits gathering dust, whilst I spend my gaming time playing Mario DS on the Nintendo (again gameplay conquers visuals)

However, I've got my name down for an Xbox 360 all the same....

Neil

Hanslow

Some of us haven't LOL

Seriously though, despite having a decent(ish) PC, and all the current decent home consoles, my most played game is still Angband (based on Moria / Hack / etc.). My missus and mates take the pee, but it's just such an intriguing little game. I also have to go back every now and then for a blast on Phoenix too

Good graphics to me are the polish on a game, and you know what they say about polishing turds

Problem I have is that I've been into video games since about 1982 so I'm now having a bit of a mid-life where they just don't hold my interest anymore

JackClark

Try 'Mercury' great visuals and gameplay on the PSP.

messiah

I'm still looking forward to Vision GT on the PS3 even though graphically it'll be GT4 with more bells & whistle's (hence why its not called GT5). Basically its what GT4 would have been if the PS2 had extra grunt - ie 22 cars, more pit crews etc...

The vids i've seen of PGR3 are pretty impressive, but i still want to see ingame footage, something sorely lacking for any game on any next gen console at the mo...

Dream Weaver

The problem with the next GT, GT5, Vision whatever is that it will still have exactly the same structure, they need to move it on another level and create the wow facter that GT1 had.

They need to strip the gameplay back and start again, better AI is a must as is damage modelling/physics. They should change the way it plays and take it back to how it was where you start by buying a cheap car from a garage and racing it - maybe doing some actual street races with other road users/pedestrians about.

Theres so much that could be done to a driving game that hasnt been done before. I remember Square coming up with a car based RPG but that never appeared.