Dream Weaver

Well after everyone on here was raving about Forza I thought i'd give it a shot and bought it on Saturday. I'm 25% through GT4 so fancied a new challenge and I liked the demo they released.

But after 2-3 hours on it now i am not keen at all.

I like the AI and the damage over GT4, but for everything else GT4 hammers it.

1. The car models arent that accurate - Focus looks like an Ibiza
2. Wheres the challenge of starting small and building up? After 2 races I already have a 500bhp Lancer Evo!!
3. No license tests, map of area, tuning companies.
4. The cars stick to the track like superglue, you cant use weight transfer to set the car up and it feels very arcadey.
5. Its too easy, i'm set on the hardest difficulty but win every race.
6. Car physics are poor - standard car and when braking or accelerating there is no weight transfer - you cant beat the sensation in GT4 of the cars dipping under heavy braking, or lifting on acceleration.

Thats just a few points, there doesnt seem to be a structure to it at all. You click on career mode, then go race and you just pick a class to race in. Where are the beginner/Intermediate/Professional modes etc?

And where are the rally sections?

It looks nice, graphics are smooth and I do like the fact that cars can all spin off and crash, but its far from a simulation, you can near enough chuck the cars round any bends at any speed and they will go round.

And this is no Xbox hating thing as well, I thought PGR2 was fantastic!!

So, do Game still do that returns thing within 14 days or does Forza get any better?

User 1421

It does get more limiting the more you unlock , there are cat d , c ,b ,a races etc ...

Wait till level 30 races , im tearing my hair out !

Yes !

wwp8

hmmm i just started and on level 0 and still crap,

i started with a fto and just won a mr2

Muffleman

Thank smeg for that ! The tests in GT 4 just wound me up, pointless waste of time.

Dream Weaver

I will give it some more time, but it has 12 more days to impress me then its back to Game.

If GT4 had the same AI, the ability to customise paint/graphics and the damage physics (the actual damage graphics in Forza are crap in reality) then GT4 would be the best driving game ever made!!!

Dream Weaver

The tests are great fun in GT4

Tim-Grove

Had a go of my mates GT4 and I have to say the handling of the cars is boring, I think they’ve taken the “Driving Simulator” term to seriously and ruined the game. I think all console driving games need a little bit of an arcadey feel or it just ruins the game. That’s why Forza wins hands down for me because it gives you the excitement that GT4 doesn’t.

Shaolin

A.I. thats all you need to say, makes such a difference racing with cars that react, opponents in gt4 just follow the same line, in forza you can be coming up behind someone and think i'll nip down the side there but the a.i. car might change his line, never happens in gt4.
But saying that, you need to combine the 2, that would give the best of both worlds, the cars look a million times better in gt4, and i must say i have spent a silly amount of time playing gt4 this year, more than any other game even bought the pro wheel etc.
Got to like em both really, the 2 best racing games for each system, although gt4 doesnt have races, the cars just follow each other about.
Just forget about em both..............Pole position, now thats a serious racing game !!
Or chequered flag for the old spectrum!

Dream Weaver

That would be OK, but Forza tries to start by saying its a simulation when its so obviously an arcade game. It even has a dictionary explanation of "sim-ul-ation" when loading up!!

The handling/physics in PGR2 were much more realistic and that claimed to be an arcade racer.

The driving physics in GT4 are very realistic and way above Forza.

InvisibleMan

IYHO of course

each game is different so each are worth getting. why not let everyone have their enjoyment out of it rather than make everyone feel like theyve got a cr@p game & have wasted their money, giving all your ps2 is better than xbox ****

anyway midtown madness 3 is way better

Tim-Grove

I noticed that too

Iain Young

Each to their own. I vastly prefer it to GT4, (and yes I've got all 3 major consoles as well, plus a Dreamcast, Snes, megadrive etc... )

Things that I find really frustrating in GT4...

• Really naff AI
• Seriously naff driving physics (real cars just don't behave like that on the track - at least mine doesn't)
• No real attempt at any sort of damage modelling (not just graphical, but handling, engine responsiveness etc)
• Flippin terrible menu system, bordering on unusable (slow load times as well)
• Very arcadey handling
• No decent online play
• Very frustrating license tests.

Frustrating in Forza...

• Some graphical effects are not as polished as GT4 or PGR2 (cars don't look as good).
• Cheesy music

For me the superior handling (IMO) and online modes of Forza raise it far above GT4, (spent a couple of hours racing other people around the nurburgring last night, and it was great). I've really not noticed the "when you spin or lose the back end it just swivels about its centre" effect at all. I suspect this may be more to do with the graphics. Do you use the incar or outside views?

Don't get me wrong, it's not perfect, but it's nowhere near as bad as you lot are making out, and in a lot of respects it is superior to GT4, (which tbh I've got bored of very quickly), and it'll keep me going until PGR3 on the xbox 360

Iain

Dream Weaver

Well its bloody annoying when everyone goes on about how great it is, so I buy it and its not and of course thats in my opinion, thats what every single thread on here is, just an opinion.

Not really sure what your point is about my "ps2 is better than xbox ****".

I own and very much enjoy both consoles, PS2 has more games, Xbox has better graphics thats always been my slant. This thread is in no way whatsoever a "PS2 is better than Xbox" thread

Besides if people cant make their own mind up then thats their problem, I dont see why my opinion of this mediocre, not very deep game should translate to me making you feel like you've "wasted your money"

The whole point is that I dont think it offers that much as a simulation, it has enjoyable elements but as yet i'm not hooked.

But as I also said, i've only done an hour or so on it. I may be back on here in a weeks time saying how great it is, after all I didnt really like Final Fantasy VII for the first few hours and that still rates as my fave ever console game.

Dream Weaver

I had an idea that the online argument would be used in the GT4 vs Forza debate.

Would you still have the same opinion when looking at both games as stand alone, and are they both as big in terms of longevity?

I cant get onto Xbox Live at the mo due to logistics of where my network is compared to the Xbos (even though i'm signed up to it), so for me the Live element isnt counted in this opinion of the game.

Iain Young

Well, it's a big part of the game, so why not.

I don't know, but probably not (I suspect GT4 is a bigger single player game). I do know that I'm still playing Forza and enjoying it, whilst I got bored with GT4 very quickly. Might go back to it again at some point, but I wasn't impressed. Yes it had a lot of depth, (i.e. a lot of stuff to unlock etc) but I just wasn't interested enough to do it.

That's why I've got mine networked wirelessly. Doesn't matter where I put the xbox now

Wizzbang

I must say that, after reading many reviews, and various forum topics about this game, I thought that Id like it a lot, so I bought it on Saturday, played for a while and was very dissapointed in the whole game, so I played some more, got more and more frustrated with it, poor handling, naff graphics, slow responses etc..I even played it on live, which to be fair is what gt4 NEEDS.

I just dont understand quite what people have seen in this game. As has been said before, its supposed to be a simulation, but it misses the mark totally.

The only good thing about the whole game is the AI which is very good, but that doesnt make it a good driving game at all.....the GT series still holds the crown there, and it still holds that crown because of drivablity....the only reason youd buy a driving simulation game.


WizzBang

Stiver3

Theres no speed feeling in GT4 imo, havent played Forza but might get it, does Forza have the feeling of actually doing 200Mph, like NFSU2 for example?

Iain Young

But drving model in GT4 behaves nothing like driving a real car around a track. The model in Forza seems to behave much more realistically. This makes the car harder to control in Forza than in GT4, and thus less drivable. If you went to an even more realistic sim (GTR for example), you'd find the handling even harder than either Forza or GT4.

GT4 is an arcade game. If you treat it as such, then I guess the driving model is ok, but it doesn't stop it being boring, and very frustrating to play (get off the driving line you mindless computer ai bots)...

Wizzbang

If your any good at gt4 the bot drivers aint a problem at all. In my experience of driving, gt4 is a lot more like real world than forza. I will continue to play gt4 because of this drivablitly... I wont go on and on about how much you love this game, cos it is only opinions, and my opinion is that I have wasted my money on another driving game that is sposed to be better than the gt series. I really really want the best driving game to be on the xbox, but as long as polyphony are owned by sony it aint gonna happen.

AndiThompson

I didn't like it at first, I just did a few races, moded my car to the max and thought "Now what? this sucks..."

But, if you keep at it, it really does improve, the later races are more restricted (some standard only, some bhp limits, some class limits, lots of specific car races etc etc) and it makes it much more fun than you accelerating away from the line in your 700bhp skyline and never seeing another car again.

Also, knock the driving aids off if you haven't already, that improves it too..

Shaolin

! Dont make me laugh ! if gt4 was a "sim" how can you hit a wall at 150 mph and get no damage? not even any slight effect on the car? jesus if this is a sim you lot must drive bloody strong cars!!

Dream Weaver

I just cant understand that comment. For me, the way the cars drive in GT4 is exactly how my cars drive on the road/track.

After more hours on Forza yesterday I *am* beginning to enjoy it more, by treating it as a game in its own right and not comparing it to GT4, butfor pure driving/handling physics GT4 is spot on.

I dont know how you drive in real life, but on track if you are shooting out of a sweeping bend and down into a hairpin (think Oulton, shell oils), as you round the sweeper and lift off the weight would transfer to the front making the rear slightly light. You would brake once the car was in a straight line down into the hairpin.

In GT4 this is done perfectly, you can feel the backend go light and if you apply the brakes mid weight transfer it will slide. This is exactly what happens on track for me.

In Forza there is no weight transfer at all.

In its defence, there are some great touches. The damage is excellent, and I ran over someones silencer last night and it actually clanked about.

Iain Young

Well it doesn't for me. You can brake in places where in a real car it would throw you off the road.

Yes there is, and if you set up your car incorrectly, it is very evident.

StickyMicky

to the few who knock GT4

do you drive with the handleing aids turned off?

Iain Young

Yes. And a driving force pro wheel

Dream Weaver

Its difficult to explain, but my main gripe with Forza over GT4 is that the cars in Forza seem to be stuck to the road with glue or something.

There's no overrun, or flow to the vehicles when you lift or adjust the steering slightly. I cant put my finger on it exactly but the cars feel more planted and less like real cars.

I did enjoy my Forza session last night though