Anyone use SuSE Linux?
20 November 2003, 12:23 PM
#1
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Just installing 7.2 Pro on an office laptop to check out etherreal network sniffer and some other bits.
Anyone use it at home or at work and if so what do you think of it?
Is its firewall any good?
Can it be updated to version 9?
Any tips or advice you have that you can pass on much appreciated
Anyone use it at home or at work and if so what do you think of it?
Is its firewall any good?
Can it be updated to version 9?
Any tips or advice you have that you can pass on much appreciated
20 November 2003, 03:01 PM
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SuSE 8.2 is one of my main desktops at home.
Your version is a little old now, but you should have no issues with it if the machine its going on isn't brand new or full of microsoft complacient hardware.
Hope your not installing it just for ethereal, as its avaiable on windows. You'll need WinPcap.
I 'think' 7.2 may still use IPChains (dependant on kernel version). Although an excellent firewall its been replaced by IPTables now. YaST will assist you in setting this up. FirewallBuilder would be a better option....however you'll need to have an excellent understanding of networks, protocols and general computer security to get a solid script. Its a proper firewall, none of this zonealarm sh1te.
It would be far to much work to update it to v9.0.
Tips and advise would cover a full text book, so I won't go into that, but I can answer pretty much any question you'll have on Linux
*edited as I didn't answer all you questions*
[Edited by Gedi - 11/20/2003 3:06:18 PM]
Your version is a little old now, but you should have no issues with it if the machine its going on isn't brand new or full of microsoft complacient hardware.
Hope your not installing it just for ethereal, as its avaiable on windows. You'll need WinPcap.
I 'think' 7.2 may still use IPChains (dependant on kernel version). Although an excellent firewall its been replaced by IPTables now. YaST will assist you in setting this up. FirewallBuilder would be a better option....however you'll need to have an excellent understanding of networks, protocols and general computer security to get a solid script. Its a proper firewall, none of this zonealarm sh1te.
It would be far to much work to update it to v9.0.
Tips and advise would cover a full text book, so I won't go into that, but I can answer pretty much any question you'll have on Linux
*edited as I didn't answer all you questions*
[Edited by Gedi - 11/20/2003 3:06:18 PM]
20 November 2003, 03:14 PM
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Hi Gedi, thanks for your reply.
I have run into the first problem already, installing it on a laptop! I just ignored the common error of it requesting the module disk for the pcmcia chipset and carried on with the install. However when it completed it hung so I rebooted and it crashes at the logon stage and doesnt display the page properly. Am currently doing another reinstall to seeif it does it again. Its an old IBM thinkpad 600.
I have run into the first problem already, installing it on a laptop! I just ignored the common error of it requesting the module disk for the pcmcia chipset and carried on with the install. However when it completed it hung so I rebooted and it crashes at the logon stage and doesnt display the page properly. Am currently doing another reinstall to seeif it does it again. Its an old IBM thinkpad 600.
20 November 2003, 04:47 PM
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Yeah I saw that on the website. Having spoken to a colleague at work he referred to KDE2 as Kiddies Desktop Enterprises and that its very poor. Basically KDE2 is hanging when you get to the logon screen and the keyboard is dead so cant get out of KDE2. It just wont work on the laptop 
Going to install Knoppix 3.3 now and see if that works on the laptop
Going to install Knoppix 3.3 now and see if that works on the laptop
20 November 2003, 05:48 PM
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Why not try downloading Redhat Fedora core 1... much newer kernel and better support for 'modern' peripherals, sound, network cards (including wireless). Installation is suprisingly civilised - I installed on an Athlon XP3200 / Asus Nforce2 and everything worked out of the box - even the firewire ports!.
Only costs as much as three blank cds
Cheers,
Alex
[Edited by AlexM - 11/20/2003 5:52:29 PM]
Only costs as much as three blank cds
Cheers,
Alex
[Edited by AlexM - 11/20/2003 5:52:29 PM]
20 November 2003, 06:28 PM
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To be honest I know absolutely fek all about Linux or anything thats not Microsoft
So any versions you come out with mean very little so whats best and why is it better? IE I have no idea what the difference is between suse, redhat or knoppix etc
- all i know is they are Linux from different companies/developers!
Just thought with spare machines on my desk and it being a little quiet coming up to xmas i'd install something different other than Microsoft
So any versions you come out with mean very little so whats best and why is it better? IE I have no idea what the difference is between suse, redhat or knoppix etc
- all i know is they are Linux from different companies/developers!Just thought with spare machines on my desk and it being a little quiet coming up to xmas i'd install something different other than Microsoft
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20 November 2003, 07:53 PM
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GNU/Linux is the kernel, the distribution (Red Hat, Debian, SuSE etc) is just the entire package that comes with the kernel including bundled software, package management, configuration toos etc. These are the bits that are different among distributions, some also make changes to the kernel as well.
20 November 2003, 11:37 PM
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OK, I'll go from the beginning.
I won't go into the issues behind the pcmcia thing, but you can avoid it. When you first install SuSE you have a boot screen. From this boot screen you can pass parameters that will be issued to the kernel upon every boot thereafter. To avoid the kernel hang when detecting the pcmcia issue the following:
NOPCMCIA = "yes"
Knoppix is good for the job it was meant for which is running a full Linux distro from a cdrom. You don't install it.
Its great for either gettingto know Linux or keeping a copy in your CD case for emergencies......like you need to use a computer and some idiot who knows no better has put some sh1te called 'Windows' on there
Redhat is best left to the Americans IMHO. The only reason its so popular is because its big over there and they have to shout about it. Others include:
Mandrake - Nice for beginners. The european equivelent of RH
Debian - Excellent. Best left for the more experienced though
Slackware - Again, brilliant, but for the experienced.
Gentoo - Good distro, but for advanced again.
Lindows - STAY CLEAR. It has tried to simulate Windows and in the process has massively compromised its security.
SuSE - The most advanced distro for the desktop. YaST will make life easy for newcommers. In fact its too easy. If you wanna learn hardcore Linux, its best to move away from this after about 6 months. I use mine for desktop tasks such as mail, browsing etc everything you do on Windows, just because it makes life easy.
My other desktops like Slack, FreeBSD, Solaris are for getting your hands dirty with. Hackers machines in the true sense.
As Steve mentioned, the SuSE kernel is very heavily modified. Its has many extra features than what Linus originaly sets in the 'vanilla' kernels. For instance, although the new SuSE9.0 uses the 2.4.22 kernel, it has many of the new features of the 2.6.* kernel included, plus many of SuSE's own little tricks.
I won't go into the issues behind the pcmcia thing, but you can avoid it. When you first install SuSE you have a boot screen. From this boot screen you can pass parameters that will be issued to the kernel upon every boot thereafter. To avoid the kernel hang when detecting the pcmcia issue the following:
NOPCMCIA = "yes"
Knoppix is good for the job it was meant for which is running a full Linux distro from a cdrom. You don't install it.
Its great for either gettingto know Linux or keeping a copy in your CD case for emergencies......like you need to use a computer and some idiot who knows no better has put some sh1te called 'Windows' on there
Redhat is best left to the Americans IMHO. The only reason its so popular is because its big over there and they have to shout about it. Others include:
Mandrake - Nice for beginners. The european equivelent of RH
Debian - Excellent. Best left for the more experienced though
Slackware - Again, brilliant, but for the experienced.
Gentoo - Good distro, but for advanced again.
Lindows - STAY CLEAR. It has tried to simulate Windows and in the process has massively compromised its security.
SuSE - The most advanced distro for the desktop. YaST will make life easy for newcommers. In fact its too easy. If you wanna learn hardcore Linux, its best to move away from this after about 6 months. I use mine for desktop tasks such as mail, browsing etc everything you do on Windows, just because it makes life easy.
My other desktops like Slack, FreeBSD, Solaris are for getting your hands dirty with. Hackers machines in the true sense.
As Steve mentioned, the SuSE kernel is very heavily modified. Its has many extra features than what Linus originaly sets in the 'vanilla' kernels. For instance, although the new SuSE9.0 uses the 2.4.22 kernel, it has many of the new features of the 2.6.* kernel included, plus many of SuSE's own little tricks.
21 November 2003, 10:25 AM
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Cheers Gedi.
Well I have a copy of SuSE 7.2 Pro, Knoppix 3.3 (I installed it to the hard drive just because I could ) and just about to download the latest cd images of Debian from their website.
I will try and get Mandrake as well if its good for beginers because like I say I am used to Microsoft point and click and some DOS but no command line as in the way Linux uses it.
Why is Mandrake the best one for beginners?
Well I have a copy of SuSE 7.2 Pro, Knoppix 3.3 (I installed it to the hard drive just because I could
) and just about to download the latest cd images of Debian from their website.I will try and get Mandrake as well if its good for beginers because like I say I am used to Microsoft point and click and some DOS but no command line as in the way Linux uses it.
Why is Mandrake the best one for beginners?
21 November 2003, 10:43 AM
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I would say SuSE is the best for beginners. When I said 'advanced distro' I didn't mean for advanced users, I meant it had come the furthest in terms of technology for Linux on the desktop.
However Mandrake and RedHat are also both very good for beginners. Simply because they seem to be driven more by GUI's and automatic scripting systems. The other distros like Slackware take a good degree more knowledge / experience to run, but when you have this, they are the better distros IMO.
If you are serious about Linux, I would also advise SuSE for another reason.......you get 2 very large and very informative text books (with pro). Probably about 2000 pages worth of info. If you were to buy 2 books like 'Running Linux' From O'Reilly which is well recognised, it would probably cost you more, they are no better IMO and do not come with the latest SuSE OS
Just to clarify, I do not work for SuSE, and I am not biased toward them. I use many different flavours of not only Linux, but other unix like OS'. This is all just my opinion from experience.
However Mandrake and RedHat are also both very good for beginners. Simply because they seem to be driven more by GUI's and automatic scripting systems. The other distros like Slackware take a good degree more knowledge / experience to run, but when you have this, they are the better distros IMO.
If you are serious about Linux, I would also advise SuSE for another reason.......you get 2 very large and very informative text books (with pro). Probably about 2000 pages worth of info. If you were to buy 2 books like 'Running Linux' From O'Reilly which is well recognised, it would probably cost you more, they are no better IMO and do not come with the latest SuSE OS
Just to clarify, I do not work for SuSE, and I am not biased toward them. I use many different flavours of not only Linux, but other unix like OS'. This is all just my opinion from experience.
21 November 2003, 11:55 AM
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OK thanks. Will see if I can get the latest version of SuSE. I like 7.2 and have it working on a desktop at home (although hardly used it) so will see if I can get it working on this work laptop. It doesn't look like its the pcmcia problem due to it saying pcmcia has started, it crashes/hangs at the logon screen. Will try and work out how to change that parameter you have mentioned. Problem is it boots up and doesn't give me a command line to change anything
21 November 2003, 12:33 PM
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Dependant on how old your laptop is, you may have major issues putting a distro as old as 7.2 on there. A lot of things have changed in laptops, especially the jump from APM to ACPI. Also, 7.2 had very little support for laptops in general. The new distros are much more geared up for this.....
.....again SuSE being the best in this department according to recent studies from some online Linux mags.
If you wanna try it without putting down the money and getting all the bumf that comes with it, you can get SuSE 9.0 off ebay for about £3
With regard to issuing commands at boot time, this is done from lilo
.....again SuSE being the best in this department according to recent studies from some online Linux mags.
If you wanna try it without putting down the money and getting all the bumf that comes with it, you can get SuSE 9.0 off ebay for about £3
With regard to issuing commands at boot time, this is done from lilo
21 November 2003, 12:53 PM
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Oh Ok, well the laptop is a thinkpad 600 so pretty old! Will try and get the cheeapo copy of SuSE then and then look for manuals after that once I have played around with it and totally screwed it up and need to refer to a manual 
OK when I was installing it it asked me if I wanted to install lilo to the mbr which I did so I didnt have to use the bloody boot floppy it creates. How do you interupt the boot process then with lilo to change the parameter?
Oh and thanks for the help on this, im just doing what I can with it while doing support calls so not much time for reading online Linux help files and quicker to ask here
OK have just reinstalled and went to customise lilo when it asked this time and I put in that command so will see what ahppens when it finishes building
[Edited by ************** - 11/21/2003 1:55:01 PM]
OK when I was installing it it asked me if I wanted to install lilo to the mbr which I did so I didnt have to use the bloody boot floppy it creates. How do you interupt the boot process then with lilo to change the parameter?
Oh and thanks for the help on this, im just doing what I can with it while doing support calls so not much time for reading online Linux help files and quicker to ask here
OK have just reinstalled and went to customise lilo when it asked this time and I put in that command so will see what ahppens when it finishes building
[Edited by ************** - 11/21/2003 1:55:01 PM]
21 November 2003, 07:43 PM
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22 November 2003, 02:06 PM
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lol, I wouldn't put it past them either.
Latest accusation is that Linux has over 1 million lines of code from the unix OS.
B2Z, you just inspired me. I have just ordered 9.0 pro. So if you do get it now, and have any questions deirectly relate to that distro I should be in a better position to help.
Latest accusation is that Linux has over 1 million lines of code from the unix OS.
B2Z, you just inspired me. I have just ordered 9.0 pro. So if you do get it now, and have any questions deirectly relate to that distro I should be in a better position to help.
22 November 2003, 03:48 PM
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Just spotted this thread, and coincidentally i have just bought SuSE 9.0 Professional from PeeCeeWorld today. OK, it was sixty notes, but as Gedi said above, you do get two hardcopy manuals - something quite rare these days. PCW also sold RedHat and Mandrake, but (from reading the various boxes) SuSE seemed to offer the most functionality versus price (RedHat was the most expensive).
I will be installing it on my new DELL (2.4GHz, 512MB, 40GB, 17"TFT - for only GBP650 - bargain) PC, and hope to take great pleasure in not opening the "Windoesn't XP" shrinkwrap that sadly we are all forced to purchase with a new PC - whether or not we want it [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Takes me back twenty-odd years
mb
I will be installing it on my new DELL (2.4GHz, 512MB, 40GB, 17"TFT - for only GBP650 - bargain) PC, and hope to take great pleasure in not opening the "Windoesn't XP" shrinkwrap that sadly we are all forced to purchase with a new PC - whether or not we want it [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Takes me back twenty-odd years
mb
22 November 2003, 09:23 PM
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Nice one, I'm tempted to buy it now just for the manuals. Are they good for people who have no idea about command line?
When I installed 7.2 Pro I could work out all the navigation stuff like networking cos it was all point and click at the end of the day the same as windoze. What I have no clue about is command line so although I have downloaded a dodgy copy of cd1 of SuSE 9.0 it doesn't do me much good with no manuals for learning much about it.
If the manuals are good then I will be only too happy to buy the full package for 60 notes
When I installed 7.2 Pro I could work out all the navigation stuff like networking cos it was all point and click at the end of the day the same as windoze. What I have no clue about is command line so although I have downloaded a dodgy copy of cd1 of SuSE 9.0 it doesn't do me much good with no manuals for learning much about it.
If the manuals are good then I will be only too happy to buy the full package for 60 notes
22 November 2003, 11:25 PM
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Well just did a first install of SuSE, and i wasn't too impressed!
Admittedly i just stuck the CD in the drive and pressed GO, but it seemed to assume too much (idiot install mode) and thus i ended up with a desktop way out on the resolution size! Two attempts didn't cure the problem
However, this morning i also bought the "SAMS Teach Yerself RedHat in 24hours" book, which includes a pair of RedHat CDs. Just did a Noddy install and - hey presto, nice desktop at 1280*whatever
The book seems very readable, and as you also get a Linux kit with it, you may want to go that way first (only GBP22, or GBP15.39 at Amazon - ****!).
mb
Admittedly i just stuck the CD in the drive and pressed GO, but it seemed to assume too much (idiot install mode) and thus i ended up with a desktop way out on the resolution size! Two attempts didn't cure the problem
However, this morning i also bought the "SAMS Teach Yerself RedHat in 24hours" book, which includes a pair of RedHat CDs. Just did a Noddy install and - hey presto, nice desktop at 1280*whatever
The book seems very readable, and as you also get a Linux kit with it, you may want to go that way first (only GBP22, or GBP15.39 at Amazon - ****!).
mb
22 November 2003, 11:38 PM
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FYI SuSe is the future of linux, the profits I made on their shares is evidence..
I have no experience of linux OS's so far but I will be "researching" it further in the coming months..
I have no experience of linux OS's so far but I will be "researching" it further in the coming months..
23 November 2003, 12:07 AM
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SuSE is just one distribution among many and each have their merits. There is no "future" in one particular distribution, it depends on ones needs.
23 November 2003, 01:00 PM
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Yes, the manuals are definitely worth it. They are excellent.
boomer, you can't really say one is better than another just becasue the install didn't go perfectly. The screen problem you were having would have been easily fixable by running SaX2.
Also, doing things the noddy way isn't what Linux is about. Its an OS that you build, not one that some multibillionaire software tycoon builds and decides thats the way everyone in the world will have to run. Doing things the noddy way is the windows way.
However RH is a good system, i'm sure you will have hours of fun learning it. The SAMS series are normally pretty good too. You can't learn Linux in 24 hours though. It takes years, and even then you will never fully 'learn' it. Its constantly evolving, thats the fun part, if you wanted to, you could be a part of the way it evolves and start to write code that could be included in later kernels. I know a few kernel hackers. They are smart guys and are never short of either work ot money
boomer, you can't really say one is better than another just becasue the install didn't go perfectly. The screen problem you were having would have been easily fixable by running SaX2.
Also, doing things the noddy way isn't what Linux is about. Its an OS that you build, not one that some multibillionaire software tycoon builds and decides thats the way everyone in the world will have to run. Doing things the noddy way is the windows way.
However RH is a good system, i'm sure you will have hours of fun learning it. The SAMS series are normally pretty good too. You can't learn Linux in 24 hours though. It takes years, and even then you will never fully 'learn' it. Its constantly evolving, thats the fun part, if you wanted to, you could be a part of the way it evolves and start to write code that could be included in later kernels. I know a few kernel hackers. They are smart guys and are never short of either work ot money
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