Neil Smalley

Apparently NTL are to cap the amount of data you can download per day to 1gb

This means for a 1Mb connection you can only use it at full pelt for around 2 hours 20 mins per day.

So much for 'unlimited' access

Read about it here(from the register)


NTL has published a new user policy which defines a "normal" data download cap of 1GB/day.

Here is the spiel

ntl: home's broadband and dial-up services are intended for normal recreational or educational use by individuals and families and our pricing and network architecture have been designed accordingly. Customers who use the services more heavily than a normal home user will reduce the performance of the network for other customers.

"Normal use" of the service is defined as up to 1 gigabyte downstream of data transfer daily (which equates to approximately 200 music tracks, 650 short videos, 10,000 pictures or around 100 large software programmes downloaded per day).

In a statement on NTLHellWorld"the company's curious sheep in sheep's clothing website, NTL adds:

"The objective of this clarification of the policy is to ensure that customers continue to get a great broadband service at all times. The vast majority of customers will not be affected by this at all.

ntl will only be contacting the small percentage of customers whose use of the service PERSISTENTLY exceeds normal levels, thereby potentially reducing the overall product performance for THE VAST MAJORITY OF other customers."

darlodge

It was only a matter of time

As far as I can remember, all unlimited services have had a limit put on them after a few months. Ba$tards

I best get what I need now then

Darren

darlodge

cjones944,

I can see what you are saying, but NTL marketed their service as 'unlimited' now they are changing the goals posts.

I personally don't over use my plan with NTL, I only really use it for web browsing.

Darren

mannyo1

There is a large and growing thread over on nthellworld.com at the time of writing its at 60 pages and 34000 views.

click here

http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/sho...=&pagenumber=1

Neil Smalley

The issue is, is as far as I can see is that many of the features of why we have broadband have now been made useless by this decision.

I'm not talking about illegal Kazaa downloads, but streaming audio(radio), video, and downloading the odd LINUX ISO disk.

You'd be surprised at how much bandwidth is used up, just by the overheads in TCP/IP.

The largest impact is in the 1mb service where just 2 hours of downloading will put you over the limit. The other issue is that the cap is the same for 128,600 and 1024Kb users.

The fact that they are falsely advertising it as unlimited usage is other key point

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Buggers. Say in the Netherlands for instance, where comms from what I remember are far superior, what do/do the ISP's limit consumers to daily?

Cheers,

Nick.

cjones944

Neil

I refer the gentleman to the answer I gave a few moments ago (see above)

Do you not think you are perhaps straying into business use by that bandwidth?

I agree its a pain but what iif everyone as doing huge downloads - Wouldn't you be one to complain about the loss of bandwidth?

Maybe you can suggest a way that NTL can provide the service you require within the same budget, 'cos I am sure they would be happy to know how to do it.

Don't take offence - but you only ever get what you pay for.

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Well said neil

Neil Smalley

Made the digitalspy news now
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds10333.html

JackClark

This sucks. I signed up for a 600k stream all day, every day! And to their credit NTL have so far given me that. Are there caps in any other providers contracts?

cjones944

and what is this scoobynet mod mode off/on thing?

The best laugh I've had in ages.

Neil Smalley

BBC news now http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2740621.stm

mod mode means that i'm speaking as an NTL customer, not in my role as a scoobynet moderator.

Cjones. Can I have your bandwidth then since your not using it .
Read the protests that are erupting all over the net, loads of them are suggesting ways in which the bandwidth can be maxmised without resorting to capping.

Not replying anymore, 1000's of people are doing it for me

cjones944

Neil

OK my last post too - Let's agree to disagree. I've just been on the register site and yes people are hopping mad, aren't they.

I still can't understand how people can expect to make use of an unlimited service when they only contribute a finite amount of money.

I *know* NTL have ballsed it up bigtime in the way that they have gone about it, but the last thing that customers want is for a company like NTL - with all of the financial problems it has had - to be providing a service that is not cost effective. It will be heading for bankruptcy.

I wonder what the regulator will make of it.

Neil Smalley

Agreed.

They have gone about it in a very arbitary manner and I think that's whats backfired on them.

I can see where NTL are coming from(having designed networks, systems etc for several years) and now working in a commercial role. I agree they can't give everyone a 1Mps connection 24/7 and that the infastructure has a finite capacity, but there are better ways of going about dealing with capacity issues than this

Mind you miffing off customers and getting them to leave is a novel, if not slightly disadvantaged way of reducing demand.

It'll be interesting to see what happens on Monday.

P.S thanks for the debate. I've enjoyed it.

cjones944

Neil

Me too. Wow! a decent thread that didn't get muppetised or have toys thrown. Whatever is happening to SN ;-)

carl

I was going to upgrade my 600 kbit/s to 1 Mbit/s but I don't think I'll bother now. What benefit is there, other than faster downloads of big files? The difference in speed for web browsing is imperceptible, and for streaming audio/video if you weren't using up all the bandwidth before you won't be now.

cjones944 -- people are not expecting an 'unlimited' service, i.e. a 1 Mbit/s dedicated pipe. It's just that previously the limit was applied by (1) the published bandwidth (there's only so much you can download in a day with a 1 Mbit/s connexion) and (2) the contention ratio. If you're downloading stuff to your PC you are paying for the storage, NTL only have to pay for the bandwidth. They should have scaled their international bandwidth to cope with the traffic profile of people on 600 kbit/s and 1 Mbit/s connexions.

IMHO the timeline went something like this:
NTL launch 64 kbit/s and 512 kbit/s 'broadband', scaling their network accordingly.
They go bankrupt and give lots of people the boot.
In an attempt to get more revenue from existing customers (because they can't afford to build out to new customers) they launch 128 kbit/s, 600 kbit/s and 1 Mbit/s services without upgrading the network.
Surprise, surprise, they find that people on faster connexions donwload more stuff, and limit the amount downloaded to 1 GB a day
I shall be investigating ADSL next....

Dirty_Den

ChrisB - I fail to see why you had to edit my original post? I was expressing an opinion (as a customer of NTL) and thought it a fair and reasonable thing to do. I appreciate that I perhaps could have made it clearer that it was my own personal opionion, but there is a disclaimer saying that posts on SN are personal opinions.

Why did you think it was OTT and libelous?

Den

JackClark

Pinkeye. The Xbox live service on NTL is going to be charged at £5:00 a month. For that you get a hub and seperate IP address. I was testing this for them and it never worked for me. How they're going to stop me from using it behind my Router I don't know, but it may be possible for them to filter traffic.

PiNkEyE69

Is it going to be compulsory to have that service?
I've set the mac address of my Xbox to mirror my PC's Ethernet card and have had no problems switching the cables when I want to.
Is it really worth the £5 extra a month charge?
Cheers.

ChrisB

Despite the disclaimer, SN still recieves letters from solictors each month advising of potential legal action over posts.

I appreciate your anger... when BB finally reaches my corner of the world I'll be certain to chose a provider who won't restrict my downloads but it was a bit OTT IMO.

Chris.

Neil Smalley

Dirty_Den

I think it was the comment calling NTL the same name as the white gunk that floats on top of the sea. They are people, not that hence potentially libellous.

Please don't get miffed about it, we don't make the law

ChrisB

NTL attempt to clarify things...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/29260.html

Dirty_Den

Neil - no worries

Den

PiNkEyE69

What announcement? Was it in the email to NTL BB customers? On the website? In the news?
Nice of them, as usual (ie. Find out from 3rd parties), to tell us.

===WRX===

just been onto NTL...its total bobbins, although it states on the website under general usage ( http://www.ntlworld.com/legals/user-policy.htm ), they have issued a mail to the NTL Home department in that last hour regarding this ( so im told ), and infact there is no plan now or in the future to implement this......

did anyone phone NTL regarding this outcry... i **** myself then, as ive just finished downloading some goodies...2.6gig of goodies.....shopping at ASDA is a bandwith hungry task.....lol


all the best


j

ezeethor

if its implemented you would be limited to five hours of xbl per day.if you use your pc on the net aswell you can see the problem and why there is such a huge uproar.

cjones944

Sorry... I don't see the problem. If you are a heavy business user, then you should be on a heavy business plan not a residential one.

It is simple economics. How can any company continue to upgrade bandwidth at any given point if they have a finite amount of income with which to fund it?

I'm certainly no fan of NTL but common sense has to apply.

It's like when people moan about the AA taking 5 hours to attend to you when you breakdown on the coldest/wettest day of the year. They are going to have a massive demand on their services - Would you rather they employed twice as many breakdown staff (and doubled your membership costs) or are you happy to accept the fact that sometimes the system will get stretched and a [sometimes long] queue will form.

BTW, I don't work for NTL or the AA.

Edited due to dodgy spelling.

[Edited by cjones944 - 2/8/2003 11:24:05 AM]

Neil Smalley

Scoobynet mod mode off

cjones944

No I don't.

I realise I pay for a contended connection and that's fine. However.

1. It is a change to the contract and the acceptable use policy is implied in that contract so therefore, as far as I understand it NTL are in breach of that.
2. I pay for unlimited use, that's what the advertisments claim and what the contracts say. NTL are IMHO in breach of advertising law by imposing a limit.
3. Live in the 21st century. 1Gig is nothing.

On an average day I listen to internet radio while working, maybe watch the CNN streaming video feed at lunch times. Play battlefield 1942 for an hour or two at night, moderate scoobynet and surf, download email, pull down the odd game demo or service pack. I also log into work over the NTL cable connection as it saves me driving 70 miles each way.

Now this all adds up to over a gig per day. How is this unusual?, nothing in it is illegal, used for running my own buisness or taking the mick? It's not is it? Now, I realise it has been abused by some but why not deal with them under the current AUP?

4. The limit does not take into account the contention in my street. If nobody in my street is on a cable modem then there's no contention. So why should I be treated the same as someone who has everyone on their street on a cable modem?

5. The limit does not take into account the different speed connections. At 600K I can work and play for 5 hours before using up my limit, for 128K I can do it all day. So what benefit is there in me having a 1Mb connection? I may as well save 20 quid and have to wait longer, better a slow connection than none at all.

Sure I get what I paid for, I pay for a 1Mb connection which offers unlimited access, as per the contract and as per the advertising.

Except now i'm getting a connection which will get me in trouble after 2.5 hours of contnued use per day. If I want to get what I pay for then under the new contract I should pay £3.64 per month. £34.95/24*2.5(about the amount of time it takes to download 1 Gb)

If the connections are getting maxed out there are ways to manage and capacity plan for it, not imposing an arbitary, unrealistic and on the face of it illegal limit on legitimate users. Also what happens when more people are signed up and the network design and architecture issues that seem to be apparent in the NTL network causes that to be overloaded. Easy they'll drop the limit to 500Mb per day without addressing the root of the problem.

I suggest you follow the link to the ntlhellworld forum thread and read it.

Scoobynet mod mode on



[Edited by Neil Smalley - 2/8/2003 7:59:50 PM]

cjones944

Neil

But how do you expect them to provide ever increasing bandwidth if they have a fixed finite income?

We both know how they'll get round it. They'll change their T&C's and state that continued use implies acceptance. If not, then look around for another provider.

Whether the limit is 1GB or 1MB, the principal is the same. If you want more bandwidth, then buy it!!!!!

edited to replace infinite with finite

[Edited by cjones944 - 2/8/2003 8:54:55 PM]

Dirty_Den

... and for anyone who plays games online, that's going to eat into their allowance even quicker too.

<Den sets his email client to check for email every hour instead of every minute>

I agree with all of the comments so far, NTL sell the service as an "always on and unlimited" service.

{Edited due to OTT and potentially libalous comment}

Den

[Edited by ChrisB - 2/8/2003 11:11:33 PM]