TimH

iTrader: (11)

Spent 11 hours on the car on Saturday - wash, clay, RD3.02 applied with G220. Had been planning to use 85RD followed by FMJ, but time was running on so I used the one-step acrylic jacket (essentially a mix of 85RD and FMJ).

Overall I'm reasonably pleased by the results - no photos as yet since a 20 mile blast after I'd finished and the car is covered in dead bugs now and needs washing again - but I had 3 issues with this.

1. I found I had not fully corrected the bonnet. It is hugely better but there are still some swirls and imperfections. So, just how many sessions with the G220 and 3.02 can I have before I completely lose the clear coat? And/or should I use something with more cut that the 85RD (I used lake country cutting pad and backing plate). See photo for a 50/50 shot.
2. When buffing off the 3.02 and the 1-step I found I was frequently getting hard smear lines of, I guess, polish. They would appear very suddenly and were then a real swine to rub off. What causes them?
3. The 1-step also didn't want to buff off very easily either - especially the bonnet and roof for some reason. It took loads of elbow grease and I still keep finding patches I've missed. I tried applying it with a polishing pad on the G220 but still couldn't buff it off with the microfibre. What am I likley to have done wrong - surely it can't have been that hard work?

The other thing that became apparant is just how pock marked the front bumper is once all the grime and flies were clayed off. Needs a respray really

V4JDMSTi

iTrader: (2)

1) Get hold of a paint thickness gauge. this will let you know how much more you've got to play with. unless you borrow a top spec one you'll only get an overall reading of primer, colour & clear coat. the way to estimate the clear coat is to take several readings inside the door shuts. this is said to be one layer of each and the outside has a great level of clear coat on it.

Stick with the g220 with the cutting pad and rd3.02. any heavier and you'll really risk going through and you'll inflict some heavy marring. also what speed are you working at and how fast are you moving over the paintwork? i find that the slow cut method works far better on subaru paint.

2) make sure you work the polish long enough so it goes completely clear. if the polish residue is hard to remove it's because it's not worked enough or you've used to much. to help remove the excess, if you've used to much, mist with qd or water and wipe off. to clean the pad out while working, get a cheapy toothbrush and run it across the pad. this will take off the excess. then, spritz the pad and carry on working with the polish that's on the paintwork.

the other thing to bear in mind is how hot it's been lately. this will bake the polish on. the spritz of qd or water will help here. try and work in shade if you can. gazebos come in handy

3) again too much product and most likely the heat baking it on. again use a spritz of qd to help remove the excess.

50/50 looks good. remember you may not always be able to do a 100% correction. several reasons for this.

it takes time. looks at the pb write ups. most say that the car was there for several days. and the actual polishing time goes into double figures.

it's not an easy thing to master. it takes a shed load of practise to get it right.

some amrks are just too deep to get right out. simple as that.

there are ways to help hide these. glazes will help to fill the last remaining marks to help hide them. some polishes contain fillers that do the same.

keep at it, that bonnet looks pretty good. get hold of a ptg and providing there's plenty to play with have another go and follow up with the 85rd. you'll get even more clarity, depth and shine.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Cheers for the reply . Will have to speak to a friendly local detailer and get them to wave their thickness gauge at my car

I did do this on a hot day - black car and hot day is not good i know but it was the one and only opportunity I'd got in 6 months to do this!!

I was starting the G200 at 1 or 2 and moving up to about 4.5, moving fairly slowly and spending about 2-3 minutes on an 18x18 area. The amount of polish I used seemed OK, but I'll give it another go with less and see if it works better (in the shade next time!)

Here are two photos of beading I took this morning - I liked the symmetry

V4JDMSTi

iTrader: (2)

where are you based?

yup, some times you have to do it when you can. likewise when it's raining and cold with the car tucked into a gazebo. it's not fun but if i have to i will.

try taking the speed up to no more than 3 and applying just enough pressure to stop the pad rotating about the single point. then move it across the area to be worked at about 1/2" per second.

i would say though that the heat's got a fair bit to do with it.

nice beading. was looking at mine this morning. didn't get time to take a pic though won't be able to look at it soon as selling the scoob.

daves2rs

Some swirls may require more than IP to remove the full defects. You wont be in any danger with the G220 using 3M FCP or Menz Power Gloss. It will inflict some marring or holograms depending on how tough the paint is but if your refining with 85rd then blast with FCP or Power Gloss first then refine with the 85rd.

Paint readings are of great benefit but not on the budget of most detailers so go with caution. The orbital polishers dont generate nowhere near as much as heat as a rotary which can leave a panel fairly hot!!

Menz is quite oily aswell so once I finsh i normally give it a IPA wipedown just to ensure there are no swirls being hidden with the oils.

V4JDMSTi

iTrader: (2)

afraid i don;t agree with this at all. the porta cable and g220 will do just as much damage as a rotary can. ok it will take longer but it will still burn through if you're not carefull. however it is harder to breakdown the pgc with the random orbit machines.

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imo if a detailer turns up to do a paint correction on your car without one then send him / her away and don't let them anywhere near your paint.

this is true but fillers are helpful if you haven't got the paint thickness to fully correct

daves2rs

What evidence do you have that a PC\UDM\G220 will burn through paint after a long period of time? I have both the Makita & UDM and having used both many times I know that using either FCP or Powergloss is safe enough on the orbiral polisher providing you air with caution.

My reference was to the average Joe that would wash his car. Not clearly explained by myself but most people who invest in a G220\PC etc dont really want to invest another £150+ on a PTG for occasional use hence why I said "go with caution" We all know that the Pro's use top of the range gauges.

True but give it one wash and its right back in your face. Do it right first time and the job's a good one. That's the way I work

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Salisbury - so not very convenient for Essex

I will try Tim Bomford of Envy Valeting and see if he has a paint gauge - he's a member of Hampshire Subaru and might be happy to oblige in exchange for a pint at the next meet

The more I think about it the more I think the heat had a lot to do with it. I drank 5 litres of water (and 3 pints of beer that night) but still lost 1kg in weight just by doing the car .

Having had a long hard look, I am definitely not 100% happy with the depth and clarity of the shine, so it will be out with the 85RD as soon as I can.

I'm also questioning my choice of protection, and wonder if FMJ isn't the best for Obsidian Black: maybe Rich/PB's suggestion of the Blackfire or Jeffss ranges might have been better. Car has a very "hard" shine to it and doesn't have much of a wow factor. But, then again, it may be better after the 85RD.

Aargh - will I ever be happy

daves2rs

Blackfire midnight sun on a perfect surface will bring jaw dropping results.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

At £40 a pot it had better be good

daves2rs

You wont be dissapointed. I think PB still might have the offer on? Buy Midnight sun and get the tyre gel free.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Can't find the offer on PB . Will Midnight Sun work really well, in your opinion, on Obsidian Black? And, presumably, the 85RD will remove the FMJ...

...hmmm - I need to get a new Lake Country polishing pad as I damaged mine...and some more qd...and another MF cloth...and more clay...and some All Seasons Dressing...and I do like placing orders with PB...I'm very very tempted....

daves2rs

Okay, it might not be on the website as I collected locally as I live approx 5miles from there HQ

Burnish 85rd to a really crisp finish and the Midnight Sun suits darker colours IMO and as mentioned you wont be dissapointed

I tend to buy things in bulk. For eg if you get the megs last touch 5ltr and then dilute 1:1 it lasts a lot longer and cheaper than buying single QD bottles. I also use the Costco MF's for general use and they work well

TimH

iTrader: (11)

I buy in bulk too - which is why I seem to spend so bl**dy much on detailing stuff

TimH

iTrader: (11)

And, true to form, Rich/PB is £150 better off today as I've just ordered the Midnight Sun...and Megs All Season Dressing, Last Touch, Black Hole glaze, more CCS pads etc etc

And, even better, Saturday looks to be a perfect day for another session on the car: not to hot and not too sunny, and no rain

daves2rs

Nice one keep us updated with the results

Tim Bomford

If you'd said I have the gallon container of LT you could have had for beer money..prefer re-glaze these days from AS

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Typical!! Mind you, at the rate I'm buying detailing stuff, I think I'll have to set up my own business and go into competition with you Tim, just to get good use out of it all, and to recoup the cost

Tim Bomford

^ Ah I see, get your own PTG then !

Rich @ PB

iTrader: (3)

Some good discussion above, and all very relevant. On soft paint, you can take off 10% of total paint thickness with a product like RD3.02 on a light cut pad in just one set - I know, because I've done it! And 10% is way too much removal for most jobs. However, on harder Subaru paint the rate of removal will be lower, but not insignificant. I would expect a fairly heavy session with a couple of hits of RD3.02 on light cut pads to nip off around 2-3 microns in total... so you can't go at it and at it all day long without a gauge to hand to check your work... step this way Mr Bomford if you please!

Are you sure this wasn't masking tape residue being picked up by the towel? This happens a lot if you aren't aware of this problem when buffing, and is a major pain in the bum... until you remember to avoid buffing right up to the tape until the end of the detail! Alternatively, you could have been picking up excess polish residue from shuts, etc. Top tip - use one towel to wipe out any shut lines before using a second towel to buff the main panel. This helps to ensure no fresh polish is dragged over the freshly polished panel (which would otherwise cause fresh marring).

The heat caused this, no doubt about it. Matt's advice above addresses this point perfectly.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Thanks Rich - don't think it was masking tape but yes, could well have been polish from the shut lines, that makes most sense: didn't think of that. Top tip about using a second cloth for those

Tim - only joking about going into business: it's too much like hard work . I find it very rewarding on my own car though, and a welcome change to my desk job - and much needed physical exercise!

Looks like might be a few showers on Saturday now - so trying to borrow the inlaw's gazebo .

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Well, everybody was right!

Spent 6 hours yesterday in much cooler conditions and the whole thing was so much easier.

I gave the bonnet another go with RD3.02 (didn't manage to get access to a paint gauge but, hey!), using less polish and moving the G220 slower and the results were much better.

The 85RD is well worth using as it really does sharpen things up nicely . The hard lines were definitely me picking up polish from the shut lines - it was so hot last weekend that they instantly set solid which was why they were so difficult to remove. Yesterday I used Rich's suggestion of a separate cloth to clean the shut lines etc first at that made a huge difference, and any lines of polish I did get were much easier to remove on the cool bodywork.

Then used Poorboy's Black Hole glaze to mask some of the defects remaining, then the Midnight Sun wax - and yes, VERY pleased with the results

Only a couple of hastily snapped pictures before it got too dark and the showers arrived but hopefully you get the idea.

I will probably do a full write up on DW in a few weeks when I'm back from my holiday.

Rich @ PB

iTrader: (3)

Awesome, glad you got there in the end!

V4JDMSTi

iTrader: (2)

very nice. looks really wet but also sharp. great results.