I don't think I've ever heard the real reason behind WHY the UK Turbo lacks behind its Jap counterpart in terms of power output.

I'm wondering if the new UK spec Imprezza will ever get 280bhp ?

 

Daz

My P1 has 280. In Japan the new Scooby still hasnt been released with 280 i.e STI. The WRX version which last time was 280 has been downgraded to 250 in Japan.

The emmision laws in Europe will make it tough for a lot of engines that passed last year to get through this. Witness the demise of cars such as the GTI 6 and Aston Martin. Why smogy Tokyo can have less strict emission is beyond me, but its been said that we will get the new full Monty early in 2002 if not before.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Interesting that they've downgraded the Jap version to 250BHP - was the reason emission levels too ?

Also, interesting that we'll have full blown car in a couple of years as you say. Just wondering how that would affect my purchase of a P1.

I was trying to persuade myself that as there were no UK spec 280bhp Scoobs to buy (except P1) then the P1 owners could rest easy knowinng its still a unique car...and consequently not deppreciate quickly.

 

Possibly because of warranty work!!!!!!??????? Dont forget the Japanesse use to have a Gentlemans agreement....which went out the window before their Imports came into this Country!!!!!!!! Un-fortunatley the new model has slightly missed the boat in terms of cosmetics............possibly bad timing as some may switch to the new ford RS focus....We'll wait and see!!!!

Nath

 

But the Evo is not in the same pricerange...

 

The real reason why UK ( and other countries)don't get the top spec cars from Japan is to do with the Japanese culture. They keep highest spec equipment (cars, hi-fi etc.) for their own domestic use and release them for export (if they do at all) when newer models have come out. I live in Hong Kong and we get the WRX's but the hi-fi systems have been taken out and replaced by lower spec ones. The Subaru's in Japan come stadanrd with a double panel hi-fi by Macintosh.

Regarding the new WRX with only 250hp, the selling price is somewhat 20% lower (in HK anyway) than the previous WRX-STI. This is because the approach Subaru are taking with the new model is to allow owners to spend the saved money on modifcations to the car according to their preference. The 20% saving could easily be put back into the car for an extra 50bhp at least. Or you could go for brake/suspension upgrades etc.

BTW, I don't have an WRX, I bought a 98 Legacy GT A/T due to the rush hour traffic in HK and more people stealing WRX's, but I think I should have got a WRX anyway...maybe next time!

 

Nath, there's NO WAY I'd go back to a Ford, especially a non AWD car, which the Focus is I assume.

I would imagine those not liking the aesthetics of the new Imprezza (me included up to now) may switch to the new Lancer Evo (isn't there a new one of these coming?)

 

The new Scoob is the same power everywhere I believe. I think we are also going to get the STi in the future, which will make the P1 less unique.

Stef.

 

So, knowing what we've established here, what is the consensus of opinion regarding the P1's resale value in a couple of years ?

Do people believe it will deppreciate normally, as its a unique car ?

Or, do you see the introduction of these new STI cars in the UK in a couple of years sending the P1 resale value sliding dramatically ?

(trying to convince myself to buy one and hope I'm not throwing money away)

 

Daz
If you like the car, buy it.
Don't even think about the resale.
I bought a 5 month old Terzo for well over the odds.
At the end of the day, if you want a return on your "investment" I think the Subaru is not car to go for.

 

I would have thought that the introduction (in the future) of a P2 based on the MY01 would do more towards the depreciation of the P1 than the STIs of the future. Besides we are talking about a couple of years time.

 

Yeah, you're right - the resale value should be the last thing I think about when buying a car of the P1's calibre.

 

bb,
When the current Legacy GT-B was first launched in HK, it had the full monty in terms of available options from the factory-leather seats, double-sunroof and Mcklintosh hi-fi.
During this year, the GT-B E-tune 'replaced' the GT-B in HK (although still available to special order), the price of the new car is the same as the 'outgoing' model despite the fact that a) the E-tune is more expensive than the GT-B in Japan, and b) the Japanese yen has appreciated somewhat since the original introduction of the GT-B back in early 1999. This has been achieved by cutting down the optional equipment that was standard in HK cars, leather was replaced by the standard fabric seats and the Mcklintosh was not specified, in it's place is the standard Jap spec double-DIN CD/cassette system. If u want leather and Mcklintosh, it can be specially ordered. The Legacy Lancaster (Outback in UK) still comes with Mcklintosh and leather as standard.
The WRX STi-R came with I think a single DIN radio, which is a bonus as the radio is optional in Japan for the R. In any case, band expanders have to be fitted here as we have the same problems with Japanese frequencies. I think the new WRX is fitted with the same single DIN cd-player as in Jap spec cars (well, all Subarus on sale here except the non-turbo Foresters are Jap spec).
The Japanese culture of not exporting their most fancy stuff is slowly changing, as their own domestic economy isn't doing very well and so exports are vital to survival.
As for Japanese emissions standards, to say that they are not strict is totally incorrect, they were one of the first countries in the world to use unleaded petrol and catalytic converters. The Japanese take environmental conservation very seriously, if u look at Japanese car brochures, all of them have at least 2 pages that describes at length the car's recycleability and how it's designed to minimise pollution. The same can be seen in their websites.

 

I'll be very surprised if Prodrive ever release a P2. From most reports they seem to have got their fingers burnt releasing the P1. The P1 is a great car (2nd only to a 22B), but with 1000 of them about they are more than twice as common as an RB5 or any previous special edition. I would expect better than average residuals, but nothing spectacular due to the new model and high initial price. From the way the rarer "official" Evo VI's are taking a bashing at the moment, expect $6-8k loss in the first year.

My guess is that Prodrive will continue with the existing PPP package which will put us on par with the initial 250bhp Jap version.

In answer to the original reason for this post, we get less power than Japan for the following reasons.
1). European emissions ARE tougher (but not by much).
2). Releasing a 280bhp monster will put cars out of reach of most buyers. Insurance premiums will rocket.
3). If 2 models (215bhp and 280bhp) are released, people here will not want the lesser version - how many 180bhp Audi TT's do see? Everyone goes for the 225bhp version.
4). Subaru UK will have to support a hihgly stressed 2 litre engine for 3 years 60k miles. This will knock the price up.
5). Why should Subaru try to compete against Evo VI/VII's when it much more practical and cost effective to cream VR6's, TT's, S3's etc.

The whole attraction of the Impreza is that it is cheap, reliable, fast (in terms of the competition) and sensible, This is a combinatiob that few cars beat, so why should they change it. If you want full on power and traction buy an Evo. IMHO Mitsubishi will always win here because of there size.

I may be talking bo77ocks, but these are my opinions.

 

Orville, Insurance is always going to be a major factor now-a-days in choosing a new car........just look at how much you're paying for the privilege and what you get in return??????? And has'nt it always been the case where manufacturers dont listen to us guys in Europe..... but accomadate the rest of the world market!!!

Nath

 

Guys,
Aint you read my post on my new beast due for delivery mid Jan......360 bhp 6 speed, 2 door coupe wide arched scooby.....no..??you'll need to go back a couple of weeks.