f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Not relevant to the point being made and save the next comment as I am no fan of Scargill either, he was however right about the mines and Thatcher's government were lying ... how rare for politicians!

jonc

The planned closure was to be over three years, the National Coal Board was already closing around 20 pits a year anyway. Scargill was making unreasonable demands that all uneconomical pits remained open.

Anyways, Bob Crow was diminutive in stature in comparison to the great things Thatcher achieved in her life time.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

But he was right and Thatcher was lying, fact!

jonc

She was a politician, are you surprised? Scargill was a hypocrite and tried to buy his council flat using Thatcher's right to buy scheme, like a true Thatcherite!

warrenm2

Actually you're now making a **** of yourself with that comment. Closing unprofitable state subsidised industries that we can't afford is "wrecking the country". What are you smoking? Actually don't bother answering, better go back to studying six form sociology with tony de wonderful

ScoobyWon't

f1_fan and warrenm2 - you're both going to vote UKIP. Why fall out?

Surely there must be something you agree on if you're going to vote the same way?

cster

Wow!
That is so terrible!
So now you are saying that the whole thing wasn't just a personal vendetta that Thatcher had against Scargill then?
This is getting more complex than I had at first thought.
Just when you explained things for me - it becomes even murkier.
Perhaps next you will be saying that it was Scargill's fault that the mines were closed?
I mean it was the height of the Cold War and our hero was trying to destabalise the economy by taking advantage of our reliance on King Coal.
How ironic that it was the Polish who supplied the coal (and the means) to finish Comrade Arthur off then.
I guess by the mid 80s, they had grown tired of the the diktat of Moscow.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I was actally considering the rather wider picture of what she did rather than just the mining industry, but even then I doubt we'll ever even partially agree on that

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Not falling out, I actually have a lot of respect for Warren as despite our views being very opposed on many things he (usually ) presents his arguments well and without resorting to insults. Think he must have been having a bad day when he wrote that

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I think you'll find that virtually the whole industry was shut down as a result of Maggie's spat with Scargill, but it started over this non existenent secret plan that turns out to have existed after all.

You don't like it as it doesn't suit your agenda to have your heroine's reputation tarnished yet again, but on that point Scargill was right and that is a fact!

Oh and save any further replies with an attempted sarcastic tone until you have mastered the art..... I am happy to offer you lessons for £50/hour... I reckon I could use a couple of grand

cster

Non disclosure of information that would be helpful to the enemy - you would hold that against her?
I think you will find the whole industry was shut down because it was more trouble than it was worth on pretty much every front. It had had it's day - Arthur and co. just made sure it happened sooner than later.
But don't allow your dogma to be swayed by the obvious - just keep repeating yourself and it will become true.
Not seeing the wood for the trees was only one of Arthur's shortcomings.
He was a naive lefty, so we won't hold that against you.
BTW, I think 50 quid is very good value - where can I sign up?

warrenm2

I judge each argument on its merits, rather than who its from. If Martin2005 said something sensible I would agree with him (and have done so in the past), its just typically its 99% bollox. f1-fan said something ridiculous and I challenged it (robustly! )

To bring the thread slightly back on topic, Bob Crow supported EU withdrawal, and yet he was a socialist dinosaur. Sometimes you get strange bedfellows that you're not expecting

hodgy0_2

he supported EU withdrawal because he was against cheap labour

and saw membership as tending to drive down wages

warrenm2

Which is true.... And you would think the Labour party gets this too, but strangely they are very pro-EU. Makes you wonder why really...

Martin2005

Well that's a whole 1% less than you then dopey bollox

TurboFreak

you are joking right?

jonc

Yeah, you got me, sorry, Bob Crow was pretty rotund and probably around 10 heavier than Thatcher ever was.

TurboFreak

Sorry, I thought the punch line was you saying 'Thatcher achieved great things'

Seriously, I think it's great you have a sense of humour about that women.

jonc

Well she certainly kick started a massive turnaround drag this country out of dire sh!thole it had become under successive governments before her.

SJ_Skyline

Amazing that people still see the ****hole of the 70s as a golden age...

Oh, sorry...

cster

Well, we did give the rest of the world a bloody good laugh back in the day.
Unfortunately, it was at our expense.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Pity she dragged it into the sh1thole it is today!,,,

zip106

Yeah, because we haven't had any other governments since that we could blame, have we...

jonc

Really? So what you're saying is that one politician could have such an impact that even 24 years after she left office including 13 years of a Labour government and after her death last year, she continues influences society and how this country is governed? That is touching. Part of her legacy was encouraging entrepreneurship and small business startups which even you have benefited from with your own business, unless of course your saying you could have be doing a lot better than what your doing now had she not changed the things she did back then.

cster

Not a bad effort, since she's been dead a while now.
You seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about this woman.
It is as though you go to bed with her every night and wake up with her every morn.
Why don't you move on, just let go?
Hate is too strong an emotion to waste on someone you don't like - especially when they're dead.

TurboFreak

Seems like you still have a poster of her on your bedroom wall
Legacy of that women still lives on, and yes she died last year but ashame it was about 30 years to late.

cster

Na, that's F1 mate - maybe she is wearing striped socks and red shoes in it?
TBH, I never thought much of her in the day and never voted for her or the conservatives during her "reign" despite being able to do so since 1983. So when people go on about wishing she was dead etc. I couldn't care less. If they want to do that, well it's a free country and a matter of personal choice I guess.
It is just that I adore the way lefties go on and on and on about her. As for the complete state of denial about how f***ed this country was in the late 70s. Well what can you say? Someone had to put a bit of stick about.
I guess politics were more interesting then, partly to do with the very real backdrop of the Cold War? - so maybe a bit of boredom is not such a bad thing.
They say "there is only one thing worse than being talked about and that is not being talked about."
Now who was this thread about?

Hol

iTrader: (1)

Oh I think you will find that it was the last government in power that has made sure that the' entire next generation' of this countries leaders were never told when they were wrong and got medals just for turning up for school sports day.


Your own comments make me wonder if you were part of the leading edge of that wave as you don't like being told you are wrong.

Hol

iTrader: (1)

I thought this was about Crow?

What muppet got his weekend-panties so crossed that this thread got talking about other people and lost the plot.





Anyhow,
Like most of TFL's regular customers (and therefore someone with a valid Crow opinion - as he directly affected my life), I think he did right by his guys as he always got them more than national average pay rises, pensions and sick pay.

But, he did this at other peoples expense (the tax money had to come from somewhere else) and he did not care about that.

So I didn't like him.

hodgy0_2

But theses 70's comments need to be seen in context

How where they for our contemporary countries - France, Germany United States?

The 70's started with the Oil crises that affected the word economy - and was coupled with a genera Global slowdown, a hangover from the postwar boom