Paul Gascgoine - Hero, Zero or Meh?
29 January 2014, 12:32 PM
#92
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I don't know his family background but like many young prodigies he was probably away from his family a lot as a child, because he was that little bit more "special" than the norm he obviously received "special treatment" (examples of which can be seen throughout his career) then being left somewhat to his own devices and generally being "let off" for misdemeanors, this 'culture' expanded around him into adult life, resulting in him not having boundaries as an adult due to none being set as a child.
This behaviour pattern then developed into alcohol abuse/ addiction which led to substance abuse/ addiction, which again most likely came from the pressure of expectation - feelings of rejection and everyone out to get a piece of the action, during which time trust issues develop and the whole situation spirals out of control and on into low self esteem, wife beating, mental issues, self harm, etc,etc.
Was he "Gifted" or "Cursed" certainly poorly managed by those who had a "duty of care" over him due to the prospect of personal gain.
Life's a b!tch, then you die, we are all masters of our own destiny, no one will be able to help him until he decides to help himself, I could go on but you get the general idea.
Cliches become so for very good reason, he's not the first to have a difficult upbringing or the general pressures of life that are thrust upon us all, we all have our coping mechanisms, he chose alcohol for whatever reason, availability, peer pressure, general acceptance and it's ability to numb the mind to the more immediate issues, ultimately when this no longer sufficed he moved onto other substances until the money ran out along with the "hangers on" Now he's left alone again with memories of past glory and the demons that this abuse have created and so the cycle continues.
Ultimately due to a life without barriers being set and enforced as a child, he developed substance abuse issues which then led onto mental issues. One could ask the question as earlier posed, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" i'd say this egg has been laid due to the extra curricular activities of the chicken.
I refer you back to my earlier posts and in particular a sentence in this one, "No one can help him until he decides to help himself" and take control of the situation / become responsible for his own actions, I doubt very much that he will ever do this because throughout his life he has chosen the easy route.
Weak willed, "poor me" substance abuser = drug induced psychosis.
"Life is difficult", grow a pair face it's challenges and get on with it, there is no comfort to be had in the bottom of a bottle, billions of us mere mortals have to do it every day, gifted tortured souls will receive little sympathy from me , the world is full of people who have had to face far greater adversity than Paul Gascoigne.
I have seen many on my travels in places like India and indeed my own extended family in Jamaica who after having seen what I have seen elsewhere I consider to have been fortunate to have a wooden shack and tin roof.
He has been extremely fortunate in his life, something for which he should be grateful and embrace, instead he chooses to drink himself into oblivion, nice to have that option.
This behaviour pattern then developed into alcohol abuse/ addiction which led to substance abuse/ addiction, which again most likely came from the pressure of expectation - feelings of rejection and everyone out to get a piece of the action, during which time trust issues develop and the whole situation spirals out of control and on into low self esteem, wife beating, mental issues, self harm, etc,etc.
Was he "Gifted" or "Cursed" certainly poorly managed by those who had a "duty of care" over him due to the prospect of personal gain.
Life's a b!tch, then you die, we are all masters of our own destiny, no one will be able to help him until he decides to help himself, I could go on but you get the general idea.
Cliches become so for very good reason, he's not the first to have a difficult upbringing or the general pressures of life that are thrust upon us all, we all have our coping mechanisms, he chose alcohol for whatever reason, availability, peer pressure, general acceptance and it's ability to numb the mind to the more immediate issues, ultimately when this no longer sufficed he moved onto other substances until the money ran out along with the "hangers on" Now he's left alone again with memories of past glory and the demons that this abuse have created and so the cycle continues.
Ultimately due to a life without barriers being set and enforced as a child, he developed substance abuse issues which then led onto mental issues. One could ask the question as earlier posed, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" i'd say this egg has been laid due to the extra curricular activities of the chicken.
I refer you back to my earlier posts and in particular a sentence in this one, "No one can help him until he decides to help himself" and take control of the situation / become responsible for his own actions, I doubt very much that he will ever do this because throughout his life he has chosen the easy route.
Weak willed, "poor me" substance abuser = drug induced psychosis.
"Life is difficult", grow a pair face it's challenges and get on with it, there is no comfort to be had in the bottom of a bottle, billions of us mere mortals have to do it every day, gifted tortured souls will receive little sympathy from me , the world is full of people who have had to face far greater adversity than Paul Gascoigne.
I have seen many on my travels in places like India and indeed my own extended family in Jamaica who after having seen what I have seen elsewhere I consider to have been fortunate to have a wooden shack and tin roof.
He has been extremely fortunate in his life, something for which he should be grateful and embrace, instead he chooses to drink himself into oblivion, nice to have that option.
Yes, Gazza should stop drinking and taking drugs, but he can't and that's because he's ill. Maybe one day he'll crack it, maybe he'll die due to the abuse - either way he and anyone else who's ill deserves our support and not our judgement.
29 January 2014, 01:05 PM
#93
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What evidence do you have to support your assertion that the drink and drug abuse preceded the bipolar rather than the other way round? Bipolar ordinarily develops in the late teens and drug and alcohol abuse co-occurs in around 60% of sufferers. The medical profession attribute this over representation to self-medicating with uppers and downers prior to a formal diagnoses and the availability of prescription drugs. By this time of course the addictions have formed.
Yes, Gazza should stop drinking and taking drugs, but he can't and that's because he's ill. Maybe one day he'll crack it, maybe he'll die due to the abuse - either way he and anyone else who's ill deserves our support and not our judgement.
Yes, Gazza should stop drinking and taking drugs, but he can't and that's because he's ill. Maybe one day he'll crack it, maybe he'll die due to the abuse - either way he and anyone else who's ill deserves our support and not our judgement.
30 January 2014, 07:37 AM
#94
I'll say it again, Drug induced psychosis, all his problems stem from that remove the drugs = problems solved.
He won't do that because he has no will power, which is how he got into this situation in the first place, he will continue to take the easy option.
He won't do that because he has no will power, which is how he got into this situation in the first place, he will continue to take the easy option.
30 January 2014, 10:03 AM
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30 January 2014, 02:02 PM
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There are cases of genuine mental health problems in celebs. Stephen Fry for one. He is bipolar, however he isn't making an **** of himself. Just like a lot of illiterate people I know claim to be dyslexic when they're not, a lot of people claim some mental affliction when they want to justify their behaviour. Where do you draw the line? Jimmy Saville was a good bloke but a bit misunderstood? Charles Manson a nice fellow but prone to mood swings?
Last edited by Maz; 30 January 2014 at 02:04 PM.
30 January 2014, 02:47 PM
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Hunches are generally as a result of learned information based on observation and past experiences. It may not count as evidence but hunches are rarely without basis. Mental illness is a tangible affliction that is a fact, however there is a lot of bandwaggonning when some celebs want a label to justify erratic and abnormal behaviour. Some do it because they can get away with it. As mentioned earlier it's lack of barriers when young, weak willed, access to wealth etc.
There are cases of genuine mental health problems in celebs. Stephen Fry for one. He is bipolar, however he isn't making an **** of himself. Just like a lot of illiterate people I know claim to be dyslexic when they're not, a lot of people claim some mental affliction when they want to justify their behaviour. Where do you draw the line? Jimmy Saville was a good bloke but a bit misunderstood? Charles Manson a nice fellow but prone to mood swings?
There are cases of genuine mental health problems in celebs. Stephen Fry for one. He is bipolar, however he isn't making an **** of himself. Just like a lot of illiterate people I know claim to be dyslexic when they're not, a lot of people claim some mental affliction when they want to justify their behaviour. Where do you draw the line? Jimmy Saville was a good bloke but a bit misunderstood? Charles Manson a nice fellow but prone to mood swings?
Last edited by JTaylor; 30 January 2014 at 09:42 PM. Reason: In the hope that Maz might appreciate my humility and reciprocate
30 January 2014, 05:45 PM
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Who cares if he is or isn't
Mates bro is full time bipolar, on the lithium and indulges occasionally, just like anybody else .
But he's never been a celebrity, so can't draw on major public sympathy and the cash it might generate
Mates bro is full time bipolar, on the lithium and indulges occasionally, just like anybody else .
But he's never been a celebrity, so can't draw on major public sympathy and the cash it might generate
30 January 2014, 08:14 PM
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He probably felt like one, if he experienced the delusion of grandeur
while in manic state. I know people who don't indulge (or have stopped indulging) in substances but in rational treatments, and they are leading much better life. Celeb or not, if I have empathy for the afflicted ones, I have respect for the ones that have been able to manage their Bipolarism much better by practising some self-discipline.
Some very well-off business people, academics etc. have turned their lives around with that. It can be done. In the cases where it can't be done, psychiatry has to take control. Multiple hospital admissions and increased medication are the answers. They get visited and monitored by their local mental health team. Plenty of such cases around. Not necessarily rich and famous.
30 January 2014, 08:18 PM
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Whoever says they haven't is in denial- end of.
30 January 2014, 09:29 PM
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He probably felt like one, if he experienced the delusion of grandeur while in manic state.
I know people who don't indulge (or have stopped indulging) in substances but in rational treatments, and they are leading much better life. Celeb or not, if I have empathy for the afflicted ones, I have respect for the ones that have been able to manage their Bipolarism much better by practising some self-discipline. Some very well-off business people, academics etc. have turned their lives around with that. It can be done.
In the cases where it can't be done, psychiatry has to take control. Multiple hospital admissions and increased medication are the answers. They get visited and monitored by their local mental health team. Plenty of such cases around. Not necessarily rich and famous.
while in manic state. I know people who don't indulge (or have stopped indulging) in substances but in rational treatments, and they are leading much better life. Celeb or not, if I have empathy for the afflicted ones, I have respect for the ones that have been able to manage their Bipolarism much better by practising some self-discipline.
Some very well-off business people, academics etc. have turned their lives around with that. It can be done. In the cases where it can't be done, psychiatry has to take control. Multiple hospital admissions and increased medication are the answers. They get visited and monitored by their local mental health team. Plenty of such cases around. Not necessarily rich and famous.
30 January 2014, 09:41 PM
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That's correct. As I said before, if the case is out of hands i.e. abstinence is unachievable and if psychosis has become the second nature, the case is subject to more medication, close MH monitoring and even recurring hospital admissions. It's not only about the wellbeing and safety of/for the afflicted one, but also of others. I empathise with the former, and sympathise with the latter.
31 January 2014, 07:39 PM
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31 January 2014, 07:42 PM
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Yeah, you have to be quite brave to say hello to your inner demons.
31 January 2014, 07:57 PM
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31 January 2014, 08:10 PM
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I HATED it.
lol
Last edited by joz8968; 31 January 2014 at 08:12 PM.
31 January 2014, 08:13 PM
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When I was a kid, my brother took great delight in pinning me down and 'tickling me to death', basing the many and varied actions on animals of the jungle... "Now here come the ants. And now along come the elephants, etc." It was horrible: You know; when you can't escape and just want it to stop. But because you're laughing your head off, the 'tickler' doesn't take your protestations seriously.
I HATED it.
lol
I HATED it.
lol
