Dingdongler

Yes but these don't always make good road cars. My previous E60 M5 revved to over 8000rpm with peak power right at the top. When you could open her up and use the entire rev range or keep the revs above 5k rpm it felt like you were driving a real race car.

However in every day driving the car could feel underwhelming and in some cases 'slow' due to the lack of low end grunt. You could find yourself beaten off the lights to 30mph by a diesel if you weren't prepared to really launch the car.

I never wished the M5 had AWD, it seemed to do well without it. However when I test drove a C63 AMG I loved it but it really struggled with traction. I remember thinking how wonderful the car would be if it had AWD. In my opinion it was far better than the V8 M3 but was let down by the traction issue.

So the question in my mind is which will be better? The new M3 with RWD or the new C63 AMG with (hopefully) AWD? The latter with AWD, over 450 BHP and in estate guise could be the ultimate family mans road going weapon. I would be aiming to buy one of these two cars if finances allow next year

tony de wonderful

The RS4 caters for that sort of market; stonkingly fast away the lights and in a straight line, with enough traction to make your granny feels like Paul Walker, but doesn't corner very well and not a 'drivers car'.

The C63 is a silly car, a stupid hooligans luxury sofa . AWD make it too sane, too sanitised.

Dingdongler

I had a RS4, it is not proper fast. I kept it for a week and sold it for the M5

tony de wonderful

Of course it is a fast car (outside of supercar territory anyway); sub 5 second 0-60 and a 1/4 mile of my guess is a flat 12. What's more it has so much traction and driver aids that you can floor it everywhere with virtual impunity. The quattro will put down all your 1st gear launches from the lights, pull high G's, some people want that.

Matteeboy

A mate of mine got completely annihilated in his new RS4 off the lights by a proper Chaviot (clearly one that had been done properly). He was so annoyed he got it supercharged. Then he wrote it off - oops. He now has an RS3.

Dingdongler

Depends how you define 'fast'. It is quick, nippy etc but not what I would call fast. Trust me, I had one of the first B7s in the country and sold it (at no loss due to waiting lists) a week later. The M5 was what I would call proper fast, I mean hold on for dear life, spine tingling fast.

The RS4 was a very good car and a nice car to drive but lacked the pace I was after at that point in my life.

Matteeboy

The M3/4 have the "same" engine as our imminent M135i. Now getting it up to M3/4 levels of power would make an amusing semi sleeper :-)

Dingdongler

Personally I think the M3 saloon looks gorgeous, especially in this Mineral white colour. The saloon looks better than the coupe!

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=927609

zip106

Looks much better than the coupe - far more practical too.
I think in 12 months time our Alpina could be changed for one of these.

Dingdongler

Yup, looks far better proportioned than the coupe. I've very tempted right now but the upcoming new c63 amg with 4wd might, for me anyway, be worth waiting for.

GlesgaKiss

Midlife crisis?

New one looks good on paper but why am I drawn to the old V8 when common sense says that's daft? Maybe because V8s' days could be numbered.

Dingdongler

I have a mid life crisis every few months

Dingdongler

Tempted to order a M3 for first deliveries in June/July. Only if I can get a discount though (which I know will be unlikely). Once specced up the car is coming to £62,400 which is too much.

The other problem is the car has not been reviewed yet so there is a risk that it's not that good. M do get it wrong sometimes, I get the impression the F10 M5 was not that good a car.

And then there is the upcoming C63 AMG which will have 4wd, but that's still a year away.

Decisions, decisions....

Matteeboy

Definitely test one first.
People are getting discounts but only small amounts.
I somehow think the Merc would be more your type of car; more like the M5 you clearly liked a lot. Big capacity, massive torque, noisy!

Littleted

ill have him once I remap it

http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/1267

Dingdongler

I know I should test it first but then I'll have to wait until the cars are released in June. I popped into the stealers today to get an idea of the px value of my car. The sales guy was pleasant enough but was trying to get me to put an order in there and then!

He told me they had only been allocated one M3 and three M4s for the whole year. A total of 120 M3s and M4s nationally for the whole of 2014. Can this be true, or is it typical stealer BS

Anyway, he also told me a sports personality (who he named) had expressed an interest in their one allocated M3. He said he might leave a deposit at any moment so the car may be gone by the morning.

It was quite embarrassing how hard he was trying to 'close' me there and then.

john banks

I wonder what confidence they would have to offer a decent GFMV at 3 years? That would cut through any BS?

Dingdongler

Yes, that would catch them out

SRSport

I was looking at the 3 series in general rather than 1 or 2 cars owned here. A couple of years ago when I was looking at replacing the Impreza I was convinced that a used 3 series would be gracing my driveway, however, researching it thoroughly put me off. The final straw was the 2012 which? survey placing the 3 series as the most unreliable car aged 4-8 years with the rest of the 3 series following closely behind. A real shame as I think they look great and from what Ive been told offer a really good drive.

Matteeboy

SR; some models have issues. What sort of thing were you thinking of?
Some of the petrols were troublesome but later versions (e.g the N55 as opposed to N54 engined 335i) were fine. A real gem is the late 330i; 275bhp of NA joy with a gorgeous soundtrack.

Pick carefully and you can get a good one. Get it wrong and they can be an **** bit I wouldn't let a few bad stories put you off; they are very solid cars 99% of the time. BMW has been slow to respond to some issues though; cracking alloys, a security flaw, etc.

Ding; run miles away. Call Tony at Coopers Tonbridge Wells and get a price from him. He's the best BMW sales guy (he's a manager so no having to ask himself about discounts...) in the country. No BS, just killer prices and proper enthusiasm.

SRSport

The 330i models have always caught my attention. A nice 4 door model in metallic grey/silver. Im not sure which years the 'newer' ones come in at but would I be able to get one for £10,000?

Dingdongler

Thanks Matt, yes I really don't take well to spotty youngsters trying to give me high pressure sales tactics. How did you get involved with BMW Tonbridge, its miles away from you isn't it?

Matteeboy

SR - that might still only get you a fairly leggy example but well worth a look, As a guide, we got a mere £9k for our 56 reg, 59k mile 335d; it's up for £13.5k - OUCH!! :brick wall :loll:

Ding - he's become well know among M135i circles as THE man to buy a performance BMW from. I dealt with him and was very impressed; he gave me a great price immediately with no nonsense. However my local dealer somehow managed to match it so I went with them (they've also been very good but a bit far for you!) in the end. If I lived in the SE, I'd go with Tony though.

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Dingdongler, does it matter whether one owns it new or 2nd hand?
The way cars depreciate it is crazy buying new (even if you can afford). Unless it is a company car etc.

john banks

There is an appeal of a new performance car as you know how it has been treated and can get the best price. Although 10 years ago, when I bought an M3 I had to go for something a year old with 7000 miles to get something unmarked at main dealers and I went all over the country to find it and at a good price. I still had it in the garage monthly for warranty repairs and it lost £1k a month until a private sale which took 4 weeks. Best colour and spec etc. Few on the forums were prepared to run them without warranty, and as a performance car I also found it disappointing. It would take some convincing to buy another.

Matteeboy

John; you're not the first person I've heard that was disappointed (assuming it was the V8 model)? One guy disliked his so much, he's almost in a crusade against them! But with much more torque, less weight, etc I do think this model will be special.

Agree about new; ours needs careful running in. A "proper" M car needs even more careful running in. I'd be nervous buying something like an ex demo that's been thrashed from brand new. And new cars smell nice.
And depreciation is simply a considered "cost" to some.

How's the GTR? Still mad? A mate had a supermarket delivery lorry clip his a few weeks ago in Bristol while he was parked. A Big Issue seller noted the reg plate and gave it to him (the driver clearly hoped he'd got away with it); legend!

john banks

It was the E46, and a long time ago. It had a nice interior and exterior but winding out the engine to 8000 RPM in low gears just didn't feel special, but it did follow a Subaru which literally accelerated twice as fast not just in a straight line but it seemed anywhere, but wasn't reliable. The Evo that followed it was but was too noisy as a daily after a while. GTR mixes the best of both and will be five in the summer but so far has depreciated at only £400 per month. It still feels mad and a challenge to drive, a keeper. I am a long term German car window shopper though. From the reliability data I can't even convince myself to replace my 10 year old Legacy though.

Dingdongler

I'm actually not one of those guys who HAS to have a brand new car as some kind of ego thing. I've only had about two brand new cars out of the total of about 15 I've owned.

The thing is I really do want to change my current car quite soon. The first M3s won't come out until June and so it will be at least a year after that until the second hand ones are sold at a significant reduction. So that takes us to June 2015, and that is a long time away when you are itching to change your car.

However it may make sense to wait until they are released in June. At least that way I can drive one first, there may be larger discounts on new ones and then the C63 AMG will only be about six months further away.

The C63 potentially brings the following benefits (some are rumours though)

1) 4WD. I like this idea even if purists don't

2) A V8 engine rather than an in line 6 in the M3. A V8 always sounds better!

3) A bit more power at 450 BHP vs 430 BHP, and AMG often offer a 'power upgrade' version from day one that typically adds 30 BHP.

4) An estate version, this would be very handy for Costco shopping trips

Jimpreza

Yes, performance BMW's and 135 's

Dingdongler

Have you dealt with him as well Jim?