Prodrive P1 Lowering Springs - Rare Purchase opportunity.
06 April 2014, 05:29 PM
#91
No rubbing on the STi Pinks yesterday @ Goodwood, but I did manage/have to get another 0.2 Degree's of negative camber on the back with standard bolts (no need for camber bolts, as got -1.6 Deg).
Picture looks a little lower then is actually is, as just entering the chicane.
Unfortunately the Orange Prototypes didn't turn up until the day before the trackday, so no chance to get them on settled and in a position to abuse them !!!!
Picture looks a little lower then is actually is, as just entering the chicane.
Unfortunately the Orange Prototypes didn't turn up until the day before the trackday, so no chance to get them on settled and in a position to abuse them !!!!
Last edited by Scott.T; 06 April 2014 at 07:04 PM.
06 April 2014, 05:58 PM
#92
How did you manage to achieve -1.6 degrees of camber at the rear? By ovalling the shock abosrber holes?
How do you check for rubbing by using masking tap on the arches?
The bump stop should prevent the wheel from rubbing so if you remove the spring and refit the shock to the hub and jack the wheel up you will find out if the bump stop is doing its job and it's rubbing or not.
How do you check for rubbing by using masking tap on the arches?
The bump stop should prevent the wheel from rubbing so if you remove the spring and refit the shock to the hub and jack the wheel up you will find out if the bump stop is doing its job and it's rubbing or not.
Last edited by fpan; 06 April 2014 at 05:59 PM.
How does the bump stop, prevent the wall or shoulder of the tyre contacting the arch, if you're running wider than oem?
06 April 2014, 06:48 PM
#94
How did you manage to achieve -1.6 degrees of camber at the rear? By ovalling the shock abosrber holes?
How do you check for rubbing by using masking tap on the arches?
The bump stop should prevent the wheel from rubbing so if you remove the spring and refit the shock to the hub and jack the wheel up you will find out if the bump stop is doing its job and it's rubbing or not.
How do you check for rubbing by using masking tap on the arches?
The bump stop should prevent the wheel from rubbing so if you remove the spring and refit the shock to the hub and jack the wheel up you will find out if the bump stop is doing its job and it's rubbing or not.
On a particular long corner with a severe mid bend bump the fronts used to buzz the plastic arch liner. Only enough to mark the surface of the applied masking tape.
-1.4 degree on the front seems to of stopped this as you can now feel it hit the front bump stop.
On the rear with an 8x18 et51 and 225/35 tyre the bump stops I believe are not quite long enough for when running this wheel/tyre combination.
Last year at the Nurburgring (Running Tein S-Tech Springs) the wheel compressed far enough into the arch to touch the inner metal wheel arch.
My inner arches are all painted out silver so I could see the result.
The metal un-rolled lip also cut through the lacquered top coat of the edge of the alloy wheel.
We are talking fractions of millimeters here.
The problem with the rear inner metal arch (and the front arch liner, suffers in a similar manner) is its profile. It actually bends down and towards the tyre for the last inch or so.
Running a 7.5 inch rim on the recommended et53 would probably allow the bump stop to work.
You would be surprised at how much a wheel moves up and down in the arch. I certainly was after fixing my GoPro to the door and capturing the movement. They quite often and quite easily go in beyond the metal lip.
Last edited by Scott.T; 06 April 2014 at 06:58 PM.
06 April 2014, 07:02 PM
#96
I have got, and was going to fit, camber bolts to give it about 0.2 Degree's or so for a touch extra tyre-2-arch clearance.
But when I jacked it up, measured the camber with it jacked and then loosened the bolts I found there was a little free play.
Giving the top of the disk a shove then tightening I managed to record, when jacked an extra -0.3 Degree's.
I performed this on both side and when back on the ground and settled/driven it now reads -1.6 degree's.
The camber bolts are now back in the tool cupboard
09 April 2014, 05:18 PM
#104
All being well, Scott hopes to be fitting this weekend.
We need to check ride heights etc.
I'm a firm believer, on a road driven car, in having the smallest roll bars possible, so as to maintain side to side suspension independence: comfort and traction benefits.
I know, historically in the UK, fitting a big rear bar has been used to improve turn-in, but you're just masking the front still washing wide. The balanced orange spring rates should address that issue. So, bar wise, you may end up, on a road car, with 20/20 or 22/20. Road/track may be 22/22 or 24/22.
The 216/206 rates, of the orange, also give a flat ride at 60mph, while we all save fuel for the twisty bits.
09 April 2014, 05:51 PM
#105
The orange prototypes are the road/track springs. I wouldn't go stiffer on a car that has road usage.
All being well, Scott hopes to be fitting this weekend.
We need to check ride heights etc.
I'm a firm believer, on a road driven car, in having the smallest roll bars possible, so as to maintain side to side suspension independence: comfort and traction benefits.
I know, historically in the UK, fitting a big rear bar has been used to improve turn-in, but you're just masking the front still washing wide. The balanced orange spring rates should address that issue. So, bar wise, you may end up, on a road car, with 20/20 or 22/20. Road/track may be 22/22 or 24/22.
The 216/206 rates, of the orange, also give a flat ride at 60mph, while we all save fuel for the twisty bits.
All being well, Scott hopes to be fitting this weekend.
We need to check ride heights etc.
I'm a firm believer, on a road driven car, in having the smallest roll bars possible, so as to maintain side to side suspension independence: comfort and traction benefits.
I know, historically in the UK, fitting a big rear bar has been used to improve turn-in, but you're just masking the front still washing wide. The balanced orange spring rates should address that issue. So, bar wise, you may end up, on a road car, with 20/20 or 22/20. Road/track may be 22/22 or 24/22.
The 216/206 rates, of the orange, also give a flat ride at 60mph, while we all save fuel for the twisty bits.
09 April 2014, 05:54 PM
#106
If you search on Nasioc you may also stumble accross a post from a prodrive employee quoting that the figures floating around are incorrect.
Our figures are 'real' and as measured, not made up or calculated based on spring form, number of active coils, wire size etc...
The figures quoted being their lb/in maximum rate.
Both front/rear do have a progressive nature (of sorts), which depends on the fitted/static spring compression.
For example, the fronts when fitted compress and become quite linear, whereas when the rears are fitted there is small amount of progessivness still present/active (this is what we have tried to remove/reduce on the Orange's).
Last edited by Scott.T; 09 April 2014 at 05:57 PM.
09 April 2014, 06:19 PM
#107
Yes, they would. But they're old and new, highish rate, springs are going to stress them.
Who knows how long they'll last?
I know you've looked at agx's. There's koni inserts.
There's the kyb excel's (I am investigating springs for them), but I wouldn't use more than 170/155 on those. There's bilsteins, but they'll probably be prohibitively expensive or need rebuilding.
HTH
Who knows how long they'll last?
I know you've looked at agx's. There's koni inserts.
There's the kyb excel's (I am investigating springs for them), but I wouldn't use more than 170/155 on those. There's bilsteins, but they'll probably be prohibitively expensive or need rebuilding.
HTH
14 April 2014, 07:41 PM
#110
Mark aka 2-pot beat me to it.......but 215/195 appears to be folk-law and hearsay, mainly all stemming from 1 USA website.
If you search on Nasioc you may also stumble accross a post from a prodrive employee quoting that the figures floating around are incorrect.
Our figures are 'real' and as measured, not made up or calculated based on spring form, number of active coils, wire size etc...
The figures quoted being their lb/in maximum rate.
Both front/rear do have a progressive nature (of sorts), which depends on the fitted/static spring compression.
For example, the fronts when fitted compress and become quite linear, whereas when the rears are fitted there is small amount of progressiveness still present/active (this is what we have tried to remove/reduce on the Orange's).
If you search on Nasioc you may also stumble accross a post from a prodrive employee quoting that the figures floating around are incorrect.
Our figures are 'real' and as measured, not made up or calculated based on spring form, number of active coils, wire size etc...
The figures quoted being their lb/in maximum rate.
Both front/rear do have a progressive nature (of sorts), which depends on the fitted/static spring compression.
For example, the fronts when fitted compress and become quite linear, whereas when the rears are fitted there is small amount of progressiveness still present/active (this is what we have tried to remove/reduce on the Orange's).
P1 rear 87 - 148: When top 3 coils are closed 107. When tip gap is closed(tip of base, end coil touches coil above) 175
Last edited by 2pot; 25 April 2014 at 10:22 AM. Reason: add info
24 April 2014, 05:59 PM
#115
They're fine.
Important to get the right length bumpstops though, with lowered springs. Or cut down the existing bumpstops.
Any idea how far you're off the stops? I would think you're seriously compressing them, all the time, if they're stock stops with Tein springs. The ride would be horrible.
Have a look at post 90
https://www.scoobynet.com/993560-p1-...cussion-3.html
Any of the 3 prototype lowered versions will work those struts, because of their adjustability (albeit, limited). Current testing involves a set for kyb excel-g's, lowered P1's and a track/road set. All as linear as we can make them. The wagon version will allow for the extra 35kg at the rear.
Compared to brand new springs, on a standard UK car, all versions are minus 30mm front, minus 25mm rear. Or, minus 10mm front, minus 5mm rear, compared to a brand new P1 spring set.
That's the theory, anyway. Hence the multiple prototypes!
HTH
Important to get the right length bumpstops though, with lowered springs. Or cut down the existing bumpstops.
Any idea how far you're off the stops? I would think you're seriously compressing them, all the time, if they're stock stops with Tein springs. The ride would be horrible.
Have a look at post 90
https://www.scoobynet.com/993560-p1-...cussion-3.html
Any of the 3 prototype lowered versions will work those struts, because of their adjustability (albeit, limited). Current testing involves a set for kyb excel-g's, lowered P1's and a track/road set. All as linear as we can make them. The wagon version will allow for the extra 35kg at the rear.
Compared to brand new springs, on a standard UK car, all versions are minus 30mm front, minus 25mm rear. Or, minus 10mm front, minus 5mm rear, compared to a brand new P1 spring set.
That's the theory, anyway. Hence the multiple prototypes!
HTH
