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Prodrive P1 Lowering Springs - Rare Purchase opportunity.

Old 06 April 2014, 06:29 PM
  #91  
Scott.T
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No rubbing on the STi Pinks yesterday @ Goodwood, but I did manage/have to get another 0.2 Degree's of negative camber on the back with standard bolts (no need for camber bolts, as got -1.6 Deg).



Picture looks a little lower then is actually is, as just entering the chicane.

Unfortunately the Orange Prototypes didn't turn up until the day before the trackday, so no chance to get them on settled and in a position to abuse them !!!!

Last edited by Scott.T; 06 April 2014 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 06 April 2014, 06:58 PM
  #92  
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How did you manage to achieve -1.6 degrees of camber at the rear? By ovalling the shock abosrber holes?

How do you check for rubbing by using masking tap on the arches?

The bump stop should prevent the wheel from rubbing so if you remove the spring and refit the shock to the hub and jack the wheel up you will find out if the bump stop is doing its job and it's rubbing or not.

Last edited by fpan; 06 April 2014 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 06 April 2014, 07:36 PM
  #93  
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How does the bump stop, prevent the wall or shoulder of the tyre contacting the arch, if you're running wider than oem?

Last edited by 2pot; 06 April 2014 at 07:40 PM.
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Old 06 April 2014, 07:48 PM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by fpan View Post
How did you manage to achieve -1.6 degrees of camber at the rear? By ovalling the shock abosrber holes?

How do you check for rubbing by using masking tap on the arches?

The bump stop should prevent the wheel from rubbing so if you remove the spring and refit the shock to the hub and jack the wheel up you will find out if the bump stop is doing its job and it's rubbing or not.
Yes I have used masking tape on the front before.
On a particular long corner with a severe mid bend bump the fronts used to buzz the plastic arch liner. Only enough to mark the surface of the applied masking tape.
-1.4 degree on the front seems to of stopped this as you can now feel it hit the front bump stop.

On the rear with an 8x18 et51 and 225/35 tyre the bump stops I believe are not quite long enough for when running this wheel/tyre combination.
Last year at the Nurburgring (Running Tein S-Tech Springs) the wheel compressed far enough into the arch to touch the inner metal wheel arch.
My inner arches are all painted out silver so I could see the result.
The metal un-rolled lip also cut through the lacquered top coat of the edge of the alloy wheel.

We are talking fractions of millimeters here.

The problem with the rear inner metal arch (and the front arch liner, suffers in a similar manner) is its profile. It actually bends down and towards the tyre for the last inch or so.
Running a 7.5 inch rim on the recommended et53 would probably allow the bump stop to work.

You would be surprised at how much a wheel moves up and down in the arch. I certainly was after fixing my GoPro to the door and capturing the movement. They quite often and quite easily go in beyond the metal lip.

Last edited by Scott.T; 06 April 2014 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 06 April 2014, 07:53 PM
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Thanks for clarifying.
At the rear how did you manage to achieve -1.6 degrees of camber though?
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Old 06 April 2014, 08:02 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by fpan View Post
Thanks for clarifying.
At the rear how did you manage to achieve -1.6 degrees of camber though?
On the ground with the STi Pinks fitted it measured -1.4.
I have got, and was going to fit, camber bolts to give it about 0.2 Degree's or so for a touch extra tyre-2-arch clearance.

But when I jacked it up, measured the camber with it jacked and then loosened the bolts I found there was a little free play.
Giving the top of the disk a shove then tightening I managed to record, when jacked an extra -0.3 Degree's.

I performed this on both side and when back on the ground and settled/driven it now reads -1.6 degree's.
The camber bolts are now back in the tool cupboard
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Old 06 April 2014, 08:11 PM
  #97  
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There's 120mm of front piston travel and 140mm of rear, on those Bilsteins.
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Old 06 April 2014, 08:23 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by 2pot View Post
There's 120mm of front piston travel and 140mm of rear, on those Bilsteins.
That's worth knowing. I'll put a tie wrap around a piston at some point to see how much static compression there is, to work out how much travel remains.

I'll also confirm those measurements before I fit the Orange's.....
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Old 08 April 2014, 09:22 PM
  #99  
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P1 Red's Vs Fast Road Orange's

P1 Red's rated at : 206/189
Fast Road Orange's rated at : 215/206

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Old 09 April 2014, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott.T View Post
P1 Red's Vs Fast Road Orange's

P1 Red's rated at : 206/189
Fast Road Orange's rated at : 215/206

aren't the P1 reds are rated 215/195? i'm sure i've read that figure in a brochure somewhere and seen it qouted many times. where have you got your figures from?
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Old 09 April 2014, 04:18 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Scott.T View Post
That's worth knowing. I'll put a tie wrap around a piston at some point to see how much static compression there is, to work out how much travel remains.

I'll also confirm those measurements before I fit the Orange's.....
You can also measure the droop by measuring the wheel arch to wheel centre distance on the ground, then jack up the car and do the same with the wheel off the ground, by subtracting the 2 you have the amount of droop
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Old 09 April 2014, 05:42 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by P1_Bagz View Post
aren't the P1 reds are rated 215/195? i'm sure i've read that figure in a brochure somewhere and seen it quoted many times. where have you got your figures from?
I had a new set of p1's measured, along with 6 other springs. First set of measurements were 206/189.
Currently having them all re-measured, on a higher quality rig. This time P1 fronts measured 203. Awaiting measurement on the rears.
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Old 09 April 2014, 05:49 PM
  #103  
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When will the final product be ready? Il be interested again for a set but I need a setup that will be stiff fot track use aswel. Arb's will be 22f/24r
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Old 09 April 2014, 06:18 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by veerinder9 View Post
When will the final product be ready? Il be interested again for a set but I need a setup that will be stiff fot track use aswel. Arb's will be 22f/24r
The orange prototypes are the road/track springs. I wouldn't go stiffer on a car that has road usage.
All being well, Scott hopes to be fitting this weekend.
We need to check ride heights etc.

I'm a firm believer, on a road driven car, in having the smallest roll bars possible, so as to maintain side to side suspension independence: comfort and traction benefits.

I know, historically in the UK, fitting a big rear bar has been used to improve turn-in, but you're just masking the front still washing wide. The balanced orange spring rates should address that issue. So, bar wise, you may end up, on a road car, with 20/20 or 22/20. Road/track may be 22/22 or 24/22.

The 216/206 rates, of the orange, also give a flat ride at 60mph, while we all save fuel for the twisty bits.
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Old 09 April 2014, 06:51 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by 2pot View Post
The orange prototypes are the road/track springs. I wouldn't go stiffer on a car that has road usage.
All being well, Scott hopes to be fitting this weekend.
We need to check ride heights etc.

I'm a firm believer, on a road driven car, in having the smallest roll bars possible, so as to maintain side to side suspension independence: comfort and traction benefits.

I know, historically in the UK, fitting a big rear bar has been used to improve turn-in, but you're just masking the front still washing wide. The balanced orange spring rates should address that issue. So, bar wise, you may end up, on a road car, with 20/20 or 22/20. Road/track may be 22/22 or 24/22.

The 216/206 rates, of the orange, also give a flat ride at 60mph, while we all save fuel for the twisty bits.
Ahh ok. What dampers are recommended. Would red v5-6 sti's be fine?
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Old 09 April 2014, 06:54 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by P1_Bagz View Post
aren't the P1 reds are rated 215/195? i'm sure i've read that figure in a brochure somewhere and seen it qouted many times. where have you got your figures from?
Mark aka 2-pot beat me to it.......but 215/195 appears to be folk-law and hearsay, mainly all stemming from 1 USA website.
If you search on Nasioc you may also stumble accross a post from a prodrive employee quoting that the figures floating around are incorrect.

Our figures are 'real' and as measured, not made up or calculated based on spring form, number of active coils, wire size etc...

The figures quoted being their lb/in maximum rate.

Both front/rear do have a progressive nature (of sorts), which depends on the fitted/static spring compression.
For example, the fronts when fitted compress and become quite linear, whereas when the rears are fitted there is small amount of progessivness still present/active (this is what we have tried to remove/reduce on the Orange's).

Last edited by Scott.T; 09 April 2014 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 09 April 2014, 07:19 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by veerinder9 View Post
Ahh ok. What dampers are recommended. Would red v5-6 sti's be fine?
Yes, they would. But they're old and new, highish rate, springs are going to stress them.
Who knows how long they'll last?

I know you've looked at agx's. There's koni inserts.
There's the kyb excel's (I am investigating springs for them), but I wouldn't use more than 170/155 on those. There's bilsteins, but they'll probably be prohibitively expensive or need rebuilding.

HTH
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Old 11 April 2014, 09:47 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by 2pot View Post
There's 120mm of front piston travel and 140mm of rear, on those Bilsteins.
Just measured
Travel of 130mm front, 159mm rear on the Bilsteins Struts
Travel of 110mm front, 165mm rear on P1 Red Struts
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Old 11 April 2014, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott.T View Post
Just measured
Travel of 130mm front, 159mm rear on the Bilsteins Struts
Travel of 110mm front, 165mm rear on P1 Red Struts
Just re-measured my Bilsteins; definitely 120/140mm. May be that's one of the differences between the early/late versions?
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Old 14 April 2014, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott.T View Post
Mark aka 2-pot beat me to it.......but 215/195 appears to be folk-law and hearsay, mainly all stemming from 1 USA website.
If you search on Nasioc you may also stumble accross a post from a prodrive employee quoting that the figures floating around are incorrect.

Our figures are 'real' and as measured, not made up or calculated based on spring form, number of active coils, wire size etc...

The figures quoted being their lb/in maximum rate.

Both front/rear do have a progressive nature (of sorts), which depends on the fitted/static spring compression.
For example, the fronts when fitted compress and become quite linear, whereas when the rears are fitted there is small amount of progressiveness still present/active (this is what we have tried to remove/reduce on the Orange's).
P1 front 190 - 203

P1 rear 87 - 148: When top 3 coils are closed 107. When tip gap is closed(tip of base, end coil touches coil above) 175

Last edited by 2pot; 25 April 2014 at 11:22 AM. Reason: add info
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Old 24 April 2014, 10:03 AM
  #111  
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3 more sets of prototypes ordered, for testing.
Slightly different coil spacing front, more linear rear, small rate changes.
Colour test - grey, blue, pink.
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Old 24 April 2014, 04:43 PM
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Hi,

I currently drive a UK WRX wagon which has KYB super street dampers and some way too low Tein springs. Would one of your planned sets suit this setup? I've read that the shocks themselves may be too much for the car :-(
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Old 24 April 2014, 05:14 PM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Laupy View Post
Hi,

I currently drive a UK WRX wagon which has KYB super street dampers and some way too low Tein springs. Would one of your planned sets suit this setup? I've read that the shocks themselves may be too much for the car :-(
Are they the version with the 4 way adjustable ****? As opposed to the 8 settings on the agx's.
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Old 24 April 2014, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 2pot View Post
Are they the version with the 4 way adjustable ****? As opposed to the 8 settings on the agx's.
That's them, know much about them?

Thanks, Paul
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Old 24 April 2014, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Laupy View Post
That's them, know much about them?

Thanks, Paul
They're fine.
Important to get the right length bumpstops though, with lowered springs. Or cut down the existing bumpstops.
Any idea how far you're off the stops? I would think you're seriously compressing them, all the time, if they're stock stops with Tein springs. The ride would be horrible.

Have a look at post 90

https://www.scoobynet.com/993560-p1-...cussion-3.html

Any of the 3 prototype lowered versions will work those struts, because of their adjustability (albeit, limited). Current testing involves a set for kyb excel-g's, lowered P1's and a track/road set. All as linear as we can make them. The wagon version will allow for the extra 35kg at the rear.

Compared to brand new springs, on a standard UK car, all versions are minus 30mm front, minus 25mm rear. Or, minus 10mm front, minus 5mm rear, compared to a brand new P1 spring set.

That's the theory, anyway. Hence the multiple prototypes!

HTH
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Old 01 May 2014, 05:03 PM
  #116  
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Is this group buy still available? I have not bought struts and been looking for a good setup
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Old 01 May 2014, 09:28 PM
  #117  
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I believe we are still waiting on the final testing of the prototypes. I'm going with KYB AGX shocks and a set of these springs once they are finalised.
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Old 02 May 2014, 02:08 PM
  #118  
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Yes, that's right. Hopefully, by the end of next week: 3 more combinations of prototypes.
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Old 03 June 2014, 12:37 PM
  #119  
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Please add me to the Group Buy, I am looking for a new set of dampers and springs for the P1, as close to stock ride and height as possible
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Old 06 June 2014, 02:19 PM
  #120  
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Update:
Myself and Scott, are in a 3-way conversation with the designer of the P1 and WR99 suspensions.
Taking various struts to Bilstein, next week, for measurements.
Prototype 6 in 2 weeks.
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