Are you suggesting Mandela maintained control of MK and directed affairs from his prison cell?

 

But is there anything in those articles that highlights some the activities that he and his party perpetrated that you dispute? Was he not equally racist towards whites up until his incarceration? Did he not sing songs to encourage the killing of whites? Whilst he became the figurehead for anti-apartheid, which is not in question, it seems that many conveniently forget what he and his party did to whites and blacks. For me he cannot be compared to the likes of Martin Luther King or Mahatma Gandhi who eschewed violence and terror from the start.

 

I don't think asking and then not getting equal rights in your own occupied country can be considered racist

 

From what I have read it was the Sharpeville massacre, that focused the ANC and Mandela's mind over the usefulness of simple passive resistance and hence the move to armed resistance

 

It was Sharpeville and the days afterwards that led to the SA regime's banning of the PAC and the ANC. Subsequently Poqo and Umkhonto we Sizwe were formed from these organisations effectively moving the focus to armed proactive protest from peaceful reactive protest!

 

I don't think there were too many countries in the world in the 1980's divided straight along skin colour outside of SA and Rhodesia , or maybe you believe there was more to it

 

I agree with this.

Comparing him with Bin Laden isn't right, either.

 

So you don't support the UK government and Armed Forces either? because they are guilty of doing exactly the same.

Ask the relatives of the 250,000 dead Iraqi civilians, if they think the UK and US are terrorists or freedom fighters.

Oh yeah I forgot it's called "Collateral Damage" when we kill civilians.

 

We didn't have anything to do with Mandela during peaceful protest times, and then for half his time in clink.
Good grief, give the darkies a vote , no way! Way too much vested interest in keeping things exactly as they were

 

The Ministry of Truth has spoken. Brutally murdering people is better than discriminating against them apparently. Tell you what, go and try and get a job in an African country as a white-skinned European and see how far you get.

 

I never said that I agreed with it, that's why I suggested to F1 to read The Rogue State. Have a read you might learn something

 

I understand Bin laden read and whole-heartedly recommended it, too. Would you be kind enough to answer the question posed in post 181?

 

Oh you want to go in as the boss, boss

I can see that being a problem.


The firm our hosts in SA works for is bossed by the whites, I doubt he'll make it to the top

 

You have to feel sorry for the South African dyslexic society, they had an all night vigil at the local Nissan main dealer

 

For all the good or bad he did (depending how you look at it) I'm sick of turning on the TV and hearing about him already, how long can the vultures (media) keep milking something FFS.

Just plant the old **** and get it over and done with.

 

Yes they are, but prepare yourself

It'll be at least another week, and one of the biggest send offs in modern times

 

Well I think he was an outstanding individual. I agree with almost all of the good things said about him. How anyone can come out of gaol and be nice to his oppressors is beyond me.

I lived in South Africa in the late 70s and it was pretty depressing to a foreigner like me to accept or understand the apartheid scene.

Just imagine how much better the world would be if there were a few more Mandelas around. John Lennon would be delighted

David

 

Yep the media doing their usual over something like this. Milking it for all it's worth. Expect some bad news from Cameron and Co. this week too, no better time to bury it

 

Some ANC members were upset by the actions of the MK, and refused to accept violence as necessary for the ending of Apartheid, but these individuals became a minority as the militant leaders such as Nelson Mandela gained significant popularity. Many consider their actions to be criminal, but the MK deemed the means justified by the end goal of ending apartheid. The MK committed terrorist acts to achieve their aims, and MK was responsible for the deaths of both civilians and members of the military. Acts of terrorism committed by the MK include the Church Street bombing and the Magoo's Bar bombing. In co-operation with the South African Communist Party, MK was founded in 1961.[7]

 

More copy/paste

 

I'd venture there would been a lot more killing if it weren't for Mandela

 

Sorry to press here, Ian, but the above really doesn't answer my question. Can I assume that you don't wish too?

 

Its not a yes or no question JT . He was only allowed 1letter and 1 visit every 6 month , I'm not sure if it would have been possible, but he went down the route of violence prior to his imprisonment so has to take some responsibility

 

My original challenge was whether Mandela deliberately targeted civilians, you implied he did and listed acts of terror that took place while he was incarcerated. Does it remain your assertion that OBL and Mandela are comparable because they both deliberately targeted civilians or are you now saying that Mandela is guilty purely by association?

 

Has I posted earlier he pleaded guilty to 156 terrorist acts, does that not speak for itself.

 

An act of terrorism could be walking down a street reserved for white people.

 

Had he not pleaded guilty he would lilley have been found guilty and sentenced to death! After all the SA legal system at that time was such a fair and honest system

 

If you were South African it could have been your family being targeted. How would you feel about your wife and kids being blown up by a indiscriminate bomb. Terrorism is terrorism whether your black or white or what you are standing for.

 

Which families in particular were targeted?

I'd have felt so bloody uncomfortable with the system I wouldn't even have stayed

 

Neither would I, but bombs were detonated in shopping centres and wimped bars , I'd hazard a guess that not all families sitting down for a meal were racists