Matteeboy

If you look back, you will see I only "bite" in reaction to being provoked. I stand my ground, I argue my points but only from my point of view.
I argue the case for buying a car for cash as a RESPONSE to someone saying it's madness to do so.
I argue the case for renting and saving when told yet again it's the dumb thing to do.

We do things differently to 90% of the population. It's an old fashioned way in essence; that's stood people in good stead for generations. It works for us and I genuinely think it would work better for many others. But it's not the way any more and for every "success" story in buying/financing/whatever, there's a horror story too.

Our way is safe, probably a bit boring to most but it works. And I seriously think we'd be in better shape as a nation if others did similar.

hodgy0_2

yes, it is a bit of a sterile and redundant argument tbh

all our circumstances are different - we all make different choices based on those circumstances and our priorities - no real right or wrong way to do it and as long as you are happy with it - who give a fvk

on thing is for certain, without "finance" (personal and corporate) the car manufactures would not be able to produce such stunning cars as the M135i and the M3

it is after all "horses for courses"

off course this is not to excuse the idiots who buy things they can't afford on the never never and default - causing "sensible" people to pick up the bill

john banks

Matteeboy, interesting points. There was an interesting thread on PH (until it went wrong) something along the lines of "Would a cheap lease deal put you off buying a car?" I thought it was going to ask the question whether it was a good buy - ie whether oversupply and good deals would mean that depreciation was likely to be more than the lease payments. That is indeed what would put me off parting with my own cash for an M5, M135i or Golf R all of which have had stunning lease deals. The thread IIRC deteriorated as it was actually a question about image and would you want to shell out £30k for something that people can easily lease (so you have no snob value). I'm not interested in that perspective, but I'm sure interested in the one I thought it would be about. Whilst not madness to buy an M135i, even with £5-6k discount as seems the norm, I would feel vulnerable to excessive depreciation to have one simply because of the good lease deals. There could be some frightful trade bids depending on market conditions if there is a glut of ex lease supply.

Devildog

You are frikkin hillarious

And you have a massive chip on your shoulder about what other people may have in comparison to you, so you dismiss everything as waffle, chest puffing and illusions.

I know that engineers are good at maths Matt. I was going to do a mech eng degree at Glasgow (for which I had an unconditional acceptance) and I have been very close to many engineers (both mechanical and civil) over the years

One thing that has taught me is that engineers are clearly NOT very good at is communication. In fact I'd go so far as to say most of them were borderline asbergers. They are also very black and white, right and wrong and set in their own opinions, unable to see all the shades of grey in between. That was my point. Not that you were in some way less intelligent for having an engineering degree.

Anyway, what I really mean is exactly as I've posted on this thread, not what you'd like to think is my reality to make you feel better about yourself

Why are you so bitter Matt? Do you in some way feel that life has dealt you a poor hand? Has someone badly wronged you at some point? Did you set yourself goals that you've failed to acheive?

Are are you just massively insecure?

PS - what is it you think I do for a living?

Matteeboy

John; yep, it sure is a risk and I have no illusions that our BM will hold it's value at all but hey, it's a cost I'm willing to spend. If it was a £50/60k/70k M3/C63/GTR/whatever, the exposure would be far greater - at least it's only £30k. It can't depreciate below a certain point. Well it shouldn't do anyway...! As for image, never been interested. "Image" got us good money for the VW but I always hated it. it's unnecessary baggage that all cars/vans carry. I look at the car/van itself and don't give two hoots about image (except the negative side).

Devil - what are you on about? I run a bloody communications company. No it's won't take over the World but it's been serving us well for almost a decade. I did a Mat Eng degree because I thought it would be interesting - TBH it wasn't and I wish I'd done languages or similar but it was a good stepping stone. A "proper" degree from a "proper" University. That happened to be right near the surf...

I think what you do is worry about what others think while pretending not to care. You actually care a LOT and are ever so keen to portray an image of some wise businessman and financial genius. Maybe you are "successful" or maybe you're not but I actually couldn't give a toss. You however DO worry and go to enormous lengths to justify and belittle. Someone recently savaged you far better than I can and it was interesting to see you on the back foot. You get VERY defensive, quite panicky and very quicky lost your carefully preened image.

You must also subscribe to my threads as you are always SO quick to jump in. Occasionally there are glimmers of light and you add something interesting; enough that I would never completely write you off but the majority of the time, it's just some rather bitter sounding comments that are a clear mirror into your own being.

You also use that bloody pathetic "threat" of stalking as a last resort. Another clear indicator that you're not happy.

So there, I've just written several hundred words to keep you flapping around for a while. I can guess what you do (or did) but really, I don't care.

And as for what people have? Errrmmm, why would that bother me in the slightest? Is this actually a school playground?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Matteeboy

Less than £10k lost and that was selling to a dealer

Privately, it would have been even less but we couldn't be ar5ed.

RS Grant

Jeeeesus... that is a textbook example of the pot calling the kettle black Matt.


Cheers,
Grant

Saxo Boy

I really struggle to see what all the fuss is about when it comes to financing cars. It really doesn't matter; there is always someone richer round the corner.

Everybody has different circumstances. I agree that there are people out there up to their eyeballs in debt trying to maintain a lifestyle - Range Rover on the drive but bugger all in the fridge. These people are probably morons and face their entire lifestyle imploding at any point.

Equally, there will be people out there that are cash flow rich but not necessarily sitting on pots and pots of money. If someone pulls £5k a month, what's the big deal if they choose to spend 10% of it leasing something nice? Why would you judge them a lesser person for it?

Matteeboy

Good post and I agree.

Anyway, back to the feisty wee hatch. Been out almost three years yet just got best hot hatch over £20k in What Car. Not bad.

https://awards.whatcar.com/hothatch/bmw-M135i

pflowers

I think I'm going to have to test drive one

After driving that 116d, it's gonna have to be an auto, any other worthwhile options you can recommend when speccing one up?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Only 4.9 to 60mph my WRX beats that with 4.8

Matteeboy

Autocar got 4.6, someome else got 4.5 and under 11 to 100. It's faster than your car

Pflowers; they are a lot of fun!
I'd say the auto box, heated seats, comfort pack (cruise and rear sensors). If you want satnav, the business version is more than enough. If you like music, the mid speaker upgrade is great vfm. Pretty much the spec we have! They come with climate, xenons, extended lighting and a few other bits as standard.

If you go a bit mad you can pretty much blow £10k on options but then a good VFM car suddenly isn't such good value!

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

In the wet?????????

It just amuses me that my 10yr old £4k sh1tter can still hold it's own and now with my new springs it goes round corners pretty nicely too.

And of course I love pulling your p1sser.

Matteeboy

Actually I bet it's close in the wet; once you get it sussed, rapid progress can be made.
It's the ham footed digital driving goons that can't handle RWD.
There's a few vids of wet track driving and its slidey but fun.

Yes the old "my modified Scoob is faster (which it isn't) but only cost 10p" thing is especially favoured by old Impreza owners. They rip to 60 but fall off a cliff to 100 and never seem to post very good lap times. I was particularly surprised by how much an M135i beat an (new) STI by when Evo tested them

If I played the modding game too, it'd be even bigger a gap.
There, I replied. With facts.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Yes your right, especially about the playstation generation, I'm a little older and started out with RWD but tbh I'd expect to be beaten around a track by a new £30/40k hot hatch with flappy paddles, a bag full of electronics, and almost 100bhp more, it would be pretty sad if it couldn't show me a clean pair of heels and disappear out of view, however I doubt very much that would be the case on the road even in the dry, which ever was in front would probably stay there and that's no dis-respect to your car it's just the reality, you'd need huge *****, Sennaesque talent and a much bigger power advantage to get past AND out-brake me with my AP's especially if I didn't want you to.

Matteeboy

I would be faster on any dry public road; I have total confidence in that.
Don't forget that I have enormous Brembo made brakes front and rear.

In the wet, much closer but I'd be having more fun.

Can't you just accept that a much more powerful car with far more torque yet similar weight is faster?! You even stated it yourself. Or are you actually that comedy WRX guy that thinks his car is faster than a GTR?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Not disputing that it's faster, but as I have said on here many times, translating that into an *** whooping on the road is a totally different thing and it's not such a huge advantage even when you look at the figures it's only a second here or there, we'd both need that time/space between the two cars anyway to keep from wiping each other out, I certainly wouldn't be sat on your bumper even if I could, because if you found a wet patch around a corner and had a wobble or had to suddenly brake hard I wouldn't want to be T-boneing you, so would keep my distance as a matter of course, but you wouldn't be going anywhere.

And i'd be having just as much fun with 4 wheel drifts.

And as for the GTR thing, read what John banks said about his when he took it out recently, I'll save you the trouble, Skittish, Trust me even my Humble Type R with 330bhp was a proper handful sometimes and required the utmost concentration if you really want to throw it down the road at full chat, it also needs a lot of practice.

All well and good quoting numbers but TBH that means next to **** all.

Matteeboy

Okay, truce time.
We both run fast but very different cars.
End of.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

No need to call a truce, I wasn't arguing just trying to get across that it's never cut and dried no matter what the power advantage or how much a car costs, if a Rover with 103bhp can stay in front of a Ferrari with well over 400bhp for 7km on a twisty country road I don't fancy your cars chances of passing a 4wd 265bhp car in similar circumstances.

jonc

Exactly, power is nothing without control. I'm sure many would find it difficult to overtake or even stay with the Stig in his reasonably priced car, let alone "whoop" his ****.

jonc

That plus an overactive imagination!

Matteeboy

So an M135i has no control?
The ONLY place 4WD has an advantage is getting the power down out of a bend. What proportion of a fast road requires getting the power down out of a bend? 5% maybe? Or even less.

4WD has more traction but no more grip. And at higher speeds, drivetrain losses slow them down.

People really don't "get" RWD/FWD/4WD in performance cars. It astonishes me.

Jon - you are implying I make things up. Please give me a single example?

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Sorry matt but if that was the case all modern rally cars would be RWD but guess what, they're not.

And to suggest traction has nothing to to with grip is laughable in the extreme Why do all modern cars have traction control. sorry I'm p!ssing myself at that one, you're funny.

Devildog

Just seen this. You get funnier


Yes Matt, you do run a comms and PR company. Which ironic, don't you think, given your written communication "skills"

That doesn't really make sense though, though, does it? If I did care a lot would I post under an anonymous psydonym? What would be the point Matt?

Do I, for example, post pictures of my car or mention it at every given opportunity seeking approval and adulation from the Scoobynet masses ? No. Do I jump on every post in which someone dares to criticise my life choices in an adressive/defensive manner? No.

Do you ever see me posting out of standard weekday working hours or at weekends? No.

If you chose to have a look at my posting history you'll see that I don't actually post very much at all about me, other than in quite general terms or to give examples. But I don;t volunteer information about me. I'll give opinion, sure. I'll call bullsh1t when I see it absolutely. Am I happy to call people out and then stand by my view? 100%.

That's hardly the behaviour of someone who either "cares" about the image he portrays on this BBS, or cares about what people think about him.

You can believe what you wish, however, that is your perogative

And as for someone recently "savaging" me? Example please. If you mean the banks moving south in the event of independence thread, in which an ex call centre and now marketing manager for Scottish Widdows tried to portray that he knew all about what the Scottish clearing banks were going to do in the event of Scottish indpendence (notwithstanding the law wouldn't allow it) then we'll have to agree to differ on "savaging"

Sorry to dissapoint you but nope, I don't subscribe to yout threads.

Ok, I need to call you out in this one. When have I ever threatened you or anyone else with stalking? You have a real paranoia about that for sure.

What I have done is a bit of internet based research using freely available public information (basically google) - its hardly difficult and takes no time at all. I'm a naturally curious person, and its always useful to know who you're dealing with. There's a lot of nutters out there you know . But loving the amateur psychology Matt. Here's some from me. I suspect that you are projecting your own issues into my "persona"

Flapping. Love it

john banks

I think this simplified analysis of traction vs grip is just that because any time you've got steering lock on the two are competing. Any time at low speeds or on a low friction surface even in a straight line you lose out. Whilst a car can make good progress with little power, a really fast car will have a significant contribution from acceleration integrated over time to become speed and that integrated over time to become distance. With even modest power on a wet surface, all other things being equal (most of the counterarguments are when other things are not equal), the well setup AWD car will often pull a massive advantage out of every corner, and this far exceeds any slight increase in drivetrain loss (which is overstated by the way many dynos are setup/operated). It is OK have amazing throttle control but when you can barely use 1/4-1/2 throttle whilst unwinding lock out of a wet bend and the AWD car pulls away every time at full throttle from the apex or even before it for mild amusement but still significant forward progress, you're just losing out. I love sliding and want to improve, but it feels slow because it is, and I don't find it sensible in a road car. Not everyone is the same, but to trot out the simplified claims above only washes with people that haven't heard it before.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Finally somebody that gets it.

Matteeboy

No because rally cars are mostly in surfaces that require a LOT of traction. A road surface isn't one of them.

Oh and what are F1 cars, go karts, most hyper cars, the finest driving cars ever made (GT3 RS, Caterham R500/620, Ferrari 458, etc, etc) - oooh look they're RWD.

I have owned a relatively nippy AWD car - I drove that as carefully in the wet as in the dry because the braking distance of an AWD car with the same tyres is the SAME as a RWD one - in fact it's probably greater due to excess weight. Why this obsession with grip in the wet? If the road is slippery, SLOW DOWN. Simple driving safety.

Lets look at this vid shall we to prove my point - look at the STI and look at the M135i - the STI, according to your rules, SHOULD be faster. But it isn't. Why do you think that is?


Look at Top Gears lap times - the STI (which is 300bhp lets not forget) is way down the list. Even the FQ320 is significantly slower. The only one that does well is the FQ400; oh look, that has 400bhp.



Now you can waffle on about vague "real world" driving, you can use subjective nonsense but I use numbers. Because numbers don't lie. And nor do I.

Devil - you've blown it. Sorry but you are on ignore. Something's seriously wrong with you and I have no time to "argue" with your type. Goodbye.

Devildog

Is that supposed to upset me Matt

PS - Awesome job at backing up all your "claims" about me

Devildog

So real world driving is subjective nonsense but pub talk top gear track times taken on different days in different conditions and possibly with different drivers (and thus of no value in yep, the real world) somehow are more credible?

And there's something seriously wrong wiith *me*

Brilliant