Sadly Dave, I think you're wrong. As a "child", you have little concept.
I have students who have no idea what happens "behind the scenes".

If you don't believe me, ASK a child

"That said, I think the majority of people hate the idea that they are striking when they get a 6 week break each year whilst the rest of us have to sit and work through summer "

Sorry, sounds like sour grapes to me. You want a 6-week holiday, become a teacher.

 

BUT fwiw, the majority of educators don't like the idea of striking.
I've been off ill with bronchitis for 2 weeks. The stress caused from not being able to carry on with the assessments and work was shocking.

But you can't explain this to people who don't understand the role.

 

I'm with the teachers on this one.

It's only one day if people can't organise child care for one day maybe they don't have time for them?

I sympathise with teachers as most of the kids at the schools I went to were little *****

 

Just because a child has no interest in learning at school sometimes, it does not mean that they dont have a clue. They might act thick or just play up in front of friends in school but in reality they are not complete morons. If they wanted to take a reflection on it they would know what had to go into organising the teaching of a class. I know I was aware of the efforts as Im sure most on these forums would be (going to give the majority of them the benefit of the doubt that they are not complete morons too, although I do wonder sometimes).

You might dismiss it. But people in most other lines of work when they hear this type of news would be "Cheeky sods complaining, they only work half a year as it is" Want proof - read PSL's OP Might not say it in so many words but thats how it comes across as it appears to be an instinctive thought when people speak of teachers.

 

btw I am not on either side here....

BUT You do have to feel for the parents some times. Admittedly a teacher is not a childcare person but most people will see kids going to school as a given. Its routine and most employers are not always as flexible when half their staff say they need a day off to look after the kids. Not everyone can ship them off to a friends house or their grandparents (which alot of are probably still working in this day and age too) Schooling is a government run system and it should be taken for granted by people who expect their kids to be in school on a given day.

 

Teachers who say people should spend a day in their shoes need to remember, as pointed out above, that we all spent 12 years in the same shoes!!!!

Teachers have no real idea about the outside world and that's not their fault - they go to school, then Uni then Teacher Training then back to school ...... not a clue in h3ll of what the real world is like - so, they believe that their cocoon is special and they are special and need special treatment (by that I mean big salaries and bigger pensions).

Strike on an INSET day and I will support your right to strike - do NOT strike and hurt the kids!!

 

TBH, whilst being somewhat flippant in some of my responses, there is a great amount of irritation when faced with having to justify and prove what you do.
There is a great amount of this quantifying all the time, and it does get tiresome.

Personally, I don't get upset about it, as I've done it long enough now and have my house in order - OFSTED Grade 1 and very good results (not trying to blow my own trumpet here! )
And as a result, I wholly accept that there are bad eggs in every sector, and over the years, one could argue that many have "hidden" in institutions such as Education.
This is changing slowly, and rightly so.

But sadly, as a result, all educators get tarred with the same brush - as has been ably demonstrated by our OP

And to be completely honest, I'm in a different job to a teacher: I couldn't do what they do every day - dealing with kids that, in some cases don't want to be there. Using the old adage, "you can only teach those who want to learn"......
In my case, everybody who's in my class wants to be there.... making my life very easy. In the event of students who don't want to learn, it's their choice. School, you have to be there.

 

LOL Pete - watch your Horlicks Pete - you'll spill it, or at least curdle it with the venomous bile you're spouting. It looks like some (bad) teacher must have done a right job on you.

You didn't spend 12 years in their same shoes. You/we were on the receiving end of their teaching. You were in the same room as them.

That's like my saying when I worked with various popstars over the years (shameless plug), because I spent time with them (and a LOT more than the 6 hours MAX you spend with a teacher per day - unless you have additional teachers, when you spend even less time), I can claim to know exactly what a popstar goes through.

Of course I don't - I've got a rough idea, with a little more insight than others, but that's it.

So don't try to pull that one, because you're simply wrong.

 

Terrible job, all taken over by metrics now, school a factory to produce exam results. All efforts to standardise lessons, take all the 'art' out of teaching, drop in unannounced 'observations' by heads, some of which run free schools and may have little or no teaching experience themselves. Everything will always be the teachers fault.

 

What a ****

 

Don't worry about him.

He has clearly been bent over the wooden bench in class and given a good old rogering by Mr Higgins, the fat sweaty chemistry teacher with a **** like a baby's leg.

No wonder he harbours a grudge against the teaching profession.

 

Always half-full glasses here.
I can see several advantages to strike action being taken by teachers.
1- It will save the tax-payers money as they don't get paid whilst on strike.
2- It demonstrates what a cheap baby sitting service schools provide - and we should all be very grateful.
3- It provides a laugh to think that teaching is considered a "profession" consisting of people who think it is OK to go on strike.
4- As they generally have university degrees, it will give them an opportunity to look for another career, perhaps in the private sector with better T & Cs - Where they can strike to their hearts content - until the firm goes bust

 

Let me just explain something on the above:-

1. The Teachers do not tell the Head or Governors if they will be striking, the Head closes the school to pupils, however the Head says if you are not on strike come in, result? EVERY Teacher comes in as there are no pupils and no work to do - so, they get paid - closed the school to kids and didn't even actually go on strike!!!!!!!

Clever? Or obnoxious?

2. They do not baby sit in Senior Schools

3. Agree - not much professionalism about striking and hurting kids

4. They wouldn't last 30 minutes in the outside world - where extra duties don't come with a fat TLR payment attached ........ want a Teacher to look after the Noticeboard? Ching, that will be a £3000 TLR payment, ching!

It's a gravy train ...... and the taxpayers are paying for it - remember the twice yearly payrises!?

Part of their strike action is because they don't want to be paid performance related pay - why not? Everyone else is!

 

I am striking tomorrow, purely and simply because I am at odds with Mr Gove and his complete lack of understanding of education.

In terms of the 'you know what you signed up for' comments, I agree yes I did, I have no issues with my pay or the working hours however if your employer suddenly told you the company pension scheme was changing and you had to retire 5 years later than planned with a lower pension but higher contributions wouldn't you want to see the figures? Gove won't share the figures that he is basing the pensions changes on, purely because by all analysis the TPS is adequately funded and does not need reform.

Just to note my TLR payment of £2500 involves responsibility for the results of 300 year 11 students next summer, along with 25 As and A level students. Nobody gets a TLR lightly these days, I ask you Pete evidence your sources please.

 

Blue bugeye

A lot of the public sector work for 40 years to get their pension (about a million NHS workers) with larger contributions and less at the end........ why should you be different?

Not antagonistic, just curious.

Shaun

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the retiring age for NHS workers has gone up from 60 to 65 years. I also believe that pension contributions have gone up from 6% of wage to 10%.
I assume these changes are generally reflected in most of the public sector.
I just wonder when the decision to charge NI contributions on pension income will be taken.
As the Bobster says - "The times, they are a changing"

 

 

cster.......

Historically ...

teachers worked for 30 years for 75% of their salary

NHS staff worked for 40 years for 50% of their salary

It's just the government leveling the playing field as it is doing for the police and firemen.

I think my NHS pension contribution is about 13% ?

Shaun

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11446829

 

I'll tell you something for nothing ...... my Pension Scheme, in order to remain viable, implemented an increase in retirement age by 5 years AND an increase in contributions of 6%!! And this was all about 6 years ago!!

So, I'm afraid you will get zero sympathy from most of the country.

Why should you receive TWO payrises a year?

Why should your pay NOT be linked to performance?

Why should you get TLR payments for 'extra' duties - some are highly sceptical, like £3,000 if you become a Staff Governor! It's a gravy train. These payments are in addition to the rather high basic pay of £36,000 a year.

So, Head of Drama, on £36,000 per year also gets a TLR payment of £12,000 - that's £48,000 to be in charge of ONE other member of staff (who also has a TLR ayment of around £2,500 to 'develop' a new stage lighting set-up)!!!!!

Of course, the REAL beauty of TLR payments is that once a Teacher has stopped doing what it was given for, they STILL continue to receive it for THREE years without doing a thing extra!!

Like I said - gravy train - and WE are paying for it all .......... are you happy paying for these out-of-date practises? I'm NOT!

 

Your Horlicks is curdling again Pete

 

Scoobydo555

Look at my post 48.......why should some people in the public sector work for 30 years to get their pension and some work for 40 years?

is that fair?

Shaun

 

I'd answer this in great detail, but my participation in this thread is to basically take the p1ss out of Pete.

However, I still come back to the fact that there are benefits for working in whichever vocation you work in. To have those benefits taken away could be perceived as just as unfair. Why not fight for increasing other vocations' benefits to the same level?
I don't agree with striking, as it doesn't accomplish anything - I've never been on strike and never will. My students won't be affected tomorrow - or ever.

 

Scoobydoo555


So you think that NHS staff should strike to have the same pensions as Teachers / Police / Firemen?

Would the Teachers go on strike to support increased pensions for NHS workers?

And the same holidays?

no need to answer in detail, a simple yes or no will do.

Shaun

 

My only answer is that the NHS is considerably bigger than the other services mentioned in your post, therefore you have to define the term "NHS staff". With a much wider variation in job roles, from support , to front line to management etc.
I'm certainly not belittling what the NHS do, as even in this last month, I have had to call upon the service to great effect - my Wife also has worked in the NHS. She now works in private healthcare, as it's better.
Just like in teaching, not all roles have the same level of entitlement, but may make up for it in different ways.
Eg, managerial roles don't have the same exposure to pressures as the front line staff. But they may have greater income brackets due to added responsibility. The same for support staff - they don't have the same level of engagement, or responsibility, and that's reflected in both the job role and pay-scale. Basic management theory.

So it's not as simple an answer as "yes" or "no".

As to whether or not *I* would go on strike in support of other groups? No. But I'm (a) not in a Union, and (b) don't believe in striking.

But there still is this BIG caveat for all of these public service roles, and to be honest, ANY job role. If you want the "perks" or entitlements of that role, go and do that role!

eg I wanted the perks of working in the Music Business: the "glitz" and "glamour" of working with great people and fantastic kit. I wasn't going to get that exposure working as a chef! I became an assistant engineer, working longer hours than a chef, for a fraction of the pay.
When I then wanted a family life, with weekends, good holiday and pay, whilst "giving back" what I'd learnt over the years. I became a lecturer. Didn't know if it would work, but as it turns out, I'm pretty good at it!

I'm currently awake @ 4.25am. With a cuppa, not only responding to this thread, but because I've got aspirations to move into Strategic Management, I'm doing some work on my Management MBA, whilst also ensuring that my lecture prep is done.
My next move, career-wise is into top-end management (probably not even in Education). I'll lose the great holiday, but gain a MUCH greater pay-packet, different and challenging role, and possibly be able to impact on a company's direction.
There are pros and cons to every job - imho that's what makes them appealing.

But what is also at stake is when those conditions are changed for the worse, you have 2 choices agree or disagree. If you disagree, you either fight for those rights, or (and speaking pragmatically here), move on. Look elsewhere.

If however, as has appeared in this thread, you're looking at someone else's job and thinking, "That's not fair, Why don't I have the same?" the answer is staring you in the face: you're currently not prepared to undertake the role that affords you what you actually want as opposed to what you currently have.

The way around this is to make EVERYBODY self-employed: a MASSIVE mix up. And either nobody has these entitlements, or everybody does. But the country would be brought to its knees because of the climate-shift.

So (rhetorically now - I've got work to do! ) what is the answer? You're always going to have those who don't want to give up what they have, and those that want what others have. Isn't that how it's always been and always will be?

Food for thought. My cuppa's getting cold

Dan

 

A few facts you have wrong Pete. A TLR would not be £12k to look after 1 other member of staff.

Also, the teachers do tell the head prior to the strike wether they are striking or not.

It seems like you're a bit of a keyboard warrior, grabbing any facts you can from non reliable sources.

 

I stand corrected - I think the 13% is indeed the correct figure.
The 75% for 30 years is not something I have heard before about the teachers pension scheme. No wonder the f*ckers are going on strike
Cheers Shaun.

 

One reason I've not got involved with Pete on this one is that he has a habit of taking one fact and adding it to another to get three.

The comment about a head of Drama in charge of one other staff member getting a TLR of £12k is a good example above.

First off, most even large schools don't have more than one drama teacher, (smaller schools either don't offer it or it's done by members of the English department...for no extra money).

Secondly, the starting salary for a young teacher who already holds TWO qualifications, (Good degree and a taeching qualification), is £21,804 (source: government). They can only rise to £31,00 or so after about ten years outside London, in inner London, yes they can rise to £36,000.

And they will already have a student loan of around £50,000 hanging round their necks, and won't have earned one penny until age 22, at the very earliest.

THOSE are figures Pete would do well to look at.

He USED to be a school governor: now if ever there was a more useless, egocentric being than a school governor, invented by Maggie, I've yet to see him, LOL

 

It's rubbish, of course it is.

They get 40/80th for every year service. After only 30 years, they would be on 3/4 pension.

Many DO leave at 50-55, completely burned out.

Ask yourselves this: how many other jobs do you know where many of the finished products actively resist being finished? Often violently,or with abuse. Where the finished product won't even come into the workplace to BE finished?

And yet, every single person on here can read this because of the deication of some teacher, somewhere.
And can use a computer and software invented by people TAUGHT by teachers.

Yet 50% of Joe Public hates teachers. Go figure.

 

Reading Pete's posts reminds me of once when I read the Daily Mail. Worth a good laugh but not to be given any credibility whatsoever.

 

Not sure about you but it was my Mum who taught me to read and write along with Math etc. She devoted alot of time to make sure her 3 kids could get by comfortably before a teacher even intervened on that level. Alot of knowledge in the software and computer fields are self taught, Especially the really clever ones.

I recently did my AAT levels at college, what a waste of time and money that was, my tutor behaved like he was there to supervise us going through our workbooks and he was there to help if we got stuck - rather than teaching the subject with an understanding. I was threatened to be kicked out of college with an attendance lower than 20% in my final year - I still passed. Didnt need to turn up to college in a room with no heating over Christmas when I could be sat in the comfort of my home doing the exact same thing - Charged a fortune for the privledge. I probably would have kicked up a fuss about it had it not been my previous employer who paid for my course.

In all honesty I cant think of any teacher in my schooling days that had a massive influence on me to thank any of them apart from my final year in Primary School. And that was only because of his football coaching abilities

That said, I'm not saying there are not some fantastic teachers who do a fantastic job, but IMO the majority are not as influential as they'd like to think they are - pretty self important actually. Sorry.