alanspec_c

KTC, ESP

LuckyWelshchap

Sorry Alan.

Keighley Trade Centre, and ESP (Nottingham).

Two car dealers who have had a lot written about them on here

Use the Search function, it will be very revealing.

(I think the ESP one is entitled 'Thinking of buying a white hawk STi')

Ash170990

iTrader: (1)

lol at people saying if you cant afford to buy it out right you shouldnt have it! What a load of crap lol Id rather buy something now and have it on finance rather than save up and have it in 3 or 4 years time.... after all, who knows what tomorrow holds? Worste case if you have something on finance and loose your job, or cant afford it, sell it and pay off the debt, simples!

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Ever heard of negative equity?
No one is saying you shouldn't have something that you can't buy outright, what some of us are saying it makes far more sense to save up for something and buy it rather than paying loads in fees and interest. The problem lies in people's inability to save and living within their means.

ae82mad

iTrader: (10)

Anyway, back on topic. Alan pm me a price when your ready to sell. I'm interested. Cheers

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

The last sentence nails it. the whole Western world is built on what people can afford in 5/10 years time not what they can afford today.

I could go out and get a loan to buy a £50K car, but I am much happier owning my older car knowing that a) it is really mine, b) if I get short of work (self employed) I don't have to worry unduly and c) that when I handed over the money for it it was just that amount of money it was going to cost me not that amount of money + 25%!!!

LuckyWelshchap

I bet (no, shouldn't say that - someone will start on about the evils of gambling) the op's wondering how on Earth his question about liquidating his Spec C has become intertwined with a debate on the evils of mammon.

However..........

There's another aspect to the 'save until you can afford it' side of the discussion.

Inflation.

I think we all agree that saving 100% of the cost of a house is not practical but just suppose you did - you'd never get one (or at least not the intended type).
To a certain extent it's the same with a car (since that's the subject of this ....er...I think). Admittedly a new car is the easiest example.

In 2006 someone decides to save up for the latest Subaru model, a new Hawk. I'm not sure what the cost was but it doesn't really matter, it's the principle.
It's X pounds. By the time they've saved for it - say even 2 years (which is a lot of sacrifices) it will probably be X + y by that time, for exactly the same spec.

Worse, by the time all the money's salted away a new model could come out, invariably pricier still, and the cycle starts all over again (although shorter - it might take only a few months to save up the increase).

OK, so it's not going to be 25% more all told, but you have to take account of the fact that some of the cost of the loan is defrayed by avoiding inflation.

There's also a further consideration, a more human touch.
I once worked with someone who had this saying, that he "wasn't going to die the richest corpse in the graveyard".

Imagine scrimping and saving for years and then having the realisation that it was all for nothing.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Yeah but it's not just the 25% extra, there's depreciation of 30% to consider also plus any running costs which granted are part of the ownership experience, but just think of the many who have purchased 2.5's only to have them go pop a few months later, the running cost trap was the one I fell into as a lad, along with repayments I was screwed for pretty much 2 weeks every month, flat broke, and I lived at home and earned decent money for the time and my age.

If I had that philosophy when I bought my type r and 2 weeks later the big ends went, i'd have been crippled if i'd have taken out a £7k loan to buy it then a £5k bill to fix it plus no car for a month or so, as many have discovered, fortunately I had the cash.

Point being £4k car which i've had for 2yrs and could probably sell for £3.2/3.5k on a good day or without the £3k's worth of wheels and brakes for £3k, so it's not a spec c but it cost 3 times less and with the difference in cost of ownership I could buy another type r, or dare I say it a Blob sti.

But again I refer to my previous post, "Each to their own"

Edit to add; I believe in working hard and reaping the rewards part of which involves making sacrifices, then when you reach your end goal the fruit is much sweeter.

All this I want it now at any cost is why the uk is in the mess it is in, but hey I don't care i'm sat in my ivory tower elsewhere and everything I have, I own and got it the old fashioned way, hard graft and using my noggin.

Sometimes I dispare at the way society has gone.

LuckyWelshchap

Taking last point first and working backwards I totally agree.
When I was a teenager I had at one point no less than 3 jobs on the go while still at school.
All the money I earned went into my Hi-Fi fund.
Eventually I had an awesome system and I loved it, not because I could make Sabbath and Queen sound better than anyone else but because I was experiencing the fruits of my labour.

Years later I've a car beyond my wildest dreams because I worked damn hard for it (but in a totally different manner).

In between I was bankrupted. Out of work, keeping the family (not over-indulging) via Credit Card, for too long. Fortunately a parasitic company thought it had its claws in and made the right move (for me).

Then an organisation made the wrong one.

But that's by-the-bye.

The moral is work hard towards a goal and don't be afraid to get help getting there if it's a long climb.

Houses apart, I think it's wise to save halfway to your target and then get a loan. You'll be used to the monthly saving - which will become a loan repayment outgoing - and you'll ensure that the sacrifice was worth it.

On your first point, depreciation comes into effect regardless of how you finance the purchase and in absolute terms it will be greater the higher the price you pay ie the longer you save.

alanspec_c

'all this i want it now at any cost mentality'... that's a bit on your high horse.

i'm sure most people who don't earn enough to save up a large amount of money within a reasonable timeframe would trade jobs in a heartbeat with those in better positions, so they wouldn't need to go down the finance route.

basically you're saying everyone should ride around in bangers unless they have a well-paid job.

i glady paid the interest for the loan, why should i waste years of my life saving, when i can pay extra, if i want, for the privelage of a loan? it's a service to be used, and people earn a wage by offering this service too.

have i worked less hard because i didn't save up? it's more like the opposite, i've had to work more.

LuckyWelshchap

In a way this thread sums up why I'm glad I joined.

The op asked for advice on how best to sell his car and raise some cash, and we're all now discussing the rights, wrongs, virtues and evils of buying one.

It's just like a virtual pub. (Well my local anyway).

Love it !

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well obviously as it's cost more

alanspec_c

so what's all this 'blood, sweat and tears' crap? i wouldn't have enjoyed my car any more if i had to save for it, that's bs. i'd just be a few years older... and closer to the grave.

and the country is in a state because of stuff like finance? that's just ignorance.

sure, it's giro junkies that grab all the headlines, maxing out credit cards on widescreen TVs, sitting on their ***** all day, but the vast majority of credit users are hard working and pay their dues fully.

the economy hurts bad when people sit of their money, that's saving btw. the collective finance companies pump more into the economy than all the savers combined.

and the economy is in the toilet right now because banks won't give out... loans.

it's ultimately in the toilet because of the subprime mortgage thing, but that was bourne out of criminal negligence no less, and that is a whole different thing.

LuckyWelshchap

Economics as well now.

Iirc loans should produce the Multiplier Effect ie 'money begats money'.

You get a loan.
The money buys you something, netting someone a profit at the same time.
They use that profit to purchase goods or services, thereby netting someone else a profit and so on.

That's why the Bank has been trying to cajole the banks to lend.

The USA went another way - give people extra income ie. get them working and/or the chance to earn more by massive job creation projects.

That's the way Germany partly rejuvenated itself in the 30's, the dawn of the autobahn.

Saving cuts the flow.

I can understand why people would want to save, and believe they should, to avoid being at the total mercy of the financial institutions.

Unfortunately saving also has its risks eg. Northen Rock, and wot the EU have done in robbing people's bank accounts by way of a levy.

They can take away or degrade your ability to get your dream but they can't take the reality away if you've already got it.

Then again I suppose they can, if you can't keep up the payments.

Mmmm.....on second thoughts all of our ideas, opinions etc. are at the mercy of the bankers.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Any pics of the car lol

Maz

iTrader: (34)

When he's paid the appropriate levy to advertise. 😉

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

He can't afford it, he's got a loan to pay off

alanspec_c

pics = advertising?

i'll advertise nearer the time. if i can't post pics now, no bother. they are irrelevant at this moment anyway, since it's definitely not going before december. i hope to get the steering sorted out before then too.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Great to see you doing your bit for the economy and helping out the poor bankers, how very philanthropic of you.

B4D HK

iTrader: (15)

Put some pics up, i might be interested

donny andi

iTrader: (3)

Ah not necessarily correct.......you can pay on the never never on here also , what's another £2 a month

Reminds me I need to re pay , yet another car to sell.....oh no hang on I will just start a tread on focus rs's and slip a sly for sale bit in
Bo llocks I've already done that

Worlasshasansti

Wish I got a loan for a car, instead of the mortgage for the house I'm sat in now, first time buyer, owned for approx 6 years now, spent a fortune on it inside and out and now enjoying being stuck with 20 grand negative equity and unable to move or upgrade because of it.



Mick

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Give it time, you'll be OK in the end. Look on it as a home rather than an investment. I paid £48K for my house in 1990, spent about £30K on it in 1995 and in 2007 it was would have been about £275K, now it wouldn't sell for more than about £210K but overall it's still appreciated in value.

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Perfect example.

I bought a housein 2002 for £41k, spent 10k, sold it in 2007 for £86k, and bought another for £115k, spent £10k, to which in 2009 was worth £155k. However I have decided to stay put and thow a further £10k at it, its now only worth £130k, do I care? No, as eventually prices will rise again as they do nearly every 7 years, and should I want to move, then I will do so then buy selling, then rent, and buy when they are once again low

Rob

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

lol the housing bubbles, I bought one for £50k sold it 9yrs later for £198k bought two one for £135k and another for £25k which are now worth £185k and £220k ish gotta love property.

I need to sell up and do a Charlie Sheen.

LuckyWelshchap

Well my Mam and Dad bought theirs for £500, and now it's worth £70K.

I don't think you necessarily have to wait 50 years though.
(Or live in a Valleys town).

thenewgalaxy

Increasing value of a property is a good thing but unless you plan to do something with it then there's not much you can do with it.

I know a lot of people who proudly tell me that their house is worth double what they paid for it and it's worth exactly the same as every other house on their street yet they have no capacity to move.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

The beauty of property is it's ability to turn £60k into £400k in 15yrs not many other investments can do that, and you have to live somewhere, I am tempted to liquidate and purchase another with the cash and then chill with a couple of hundred k's in the bank, but the fear of the EU suddenly deciding to "TAX" me keeps that temptation at bay.

LuckyWelshchap

Imo Ditch and galaxy are both correct and when you put both those comments together it puts things into a good perspective.

During the building boom of the 90's the in thing in our part of the world was building houses valued at £150-200k - dotted about in plots here and there where the average price of a house was £40-50K (Valleys mining community).

Note I said "valued".
They were never worth it. (Almost all) locals couldn't afford them and people from the big cities escaping the rat race wanted a bit more seclusion.

I know of one person who had a 4-bedroom bungalow built, complete with marble sunken bath, at a cost of about £90K.
Put it on the market a couple of years later at £180K, sold about 2 years later to a local for er.... £90K.

At the end of our street are three bungalows valued at about £180K.
Average price of the terraced houses they are 'bolted on to' ? About £70-80K.

House prices are also relative. There'll be the same differential between, say, a 2-bed terrace and a 3-bed semi, however long after you buy you decide to move up.

The worth is only realised when you liquidate - then where do you live?

Although actually that's not quite true, you can turn (part of) the value into an annuity like my father-in-law has done.

Dear old mater won't though - very old school, they even scrimped in order to pay off their mortgage very early.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Interesting thread!

TX.