Shaid

Sometimes, not at the moment though. Some might say I'm hypocritical.

Although I think if I was an atheist I would make a better atheist than many others though.

I would love a role reversal type scenario with an atheist though. Think it would be fun

RA Dunk

Cool, so your not one of the brainwashed types then (no offense intended on that one BTW) you actually think for yourself and do things your own way.

RA Dunk

Role reversal? Hmm being honest I love bacon too much (I bet All's having a seizure ) I don't drink so missing alchohol wouldent bother me. Don't think I could be bothered praying so many times daily though, just getting me to go once a week till I was sixteen was bad enough lol

Shaid

Yes I do think for myself and sometimes my thoughts are really offensive to the more religious people. Some people even accuse me for being on the fence.

However those people who actually follow the tenants of their chosen faith does not mean they are brainwashed to do so. In my family all the clever ones are religious and never miss their prayers and all the poor thick guys are like me.

All Tourlk

So are you trying to say he is a kuffar like you. I don't think that's true

By the way for the ones that don't know kuffar means disbeliever e.g ra dunk

and a dirty one too if i may add. lol

Shaid

Not a real role reversal.

I'd just use the non Muslims time to **** and get pissed.

If an atheist was to defend god and me the opposite I think it would be interesting.

SoNiCa

A= Atheist
B= Believer

Both A and B gonna die.
If A dies he dies.
If B dies he dies.

If A was intelligent he dies {else goto(hell)}
If B was intelligent he dies {else goto(heaven)}

Come on! If God exists sure B has more cho(an)ice and for being intelligent.
If God doesn't exists A dies intelligent B dies non-intelligent. Both die.

hodgy0_2

Argh, it ends in the inevitable logic of a suicide bomber

hodgy0_2

Dp

Oldun

What if I was a Satan worshiper and died?

If I was bad, I would go to Hell. That should be OK
If I was good would I go to Heaven. That would be Hell for me.

RA Dunk

Yet more insults and name calling for the so called Holy Religious type, hardly surprising TBH considering.

I'm actually glad I'm not one of you, we were once as religious as you lot in the UK but eventually seen the light and moved on, you could say we kind of evolved out of it, hopefully one day you might as well.

Your not telling the whole truth are you ALL?

"Kuffar is a highly derogatory Arabic term used to refer to non-Muslims, though it is usually directed less against "People of the Book" (Christians and Jews) and more against others (Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, etc).

Separate laws govern Muslims and kuffars in an Islamic state with kuffars being viciously suppressed. For example: the blood payment to the family of a murdered Muslim man in Saudi Arabia is 1,000,000 Riyals; the payment to the family of a murdered Hindu woman is 3,333 Riyals."

You calling one of us a Kuffar is no different from anyone of us calling one of you a dirty Paki **** really and your quick to complain about that.

RA Dunk

Before your even mentioning this you must actually think about it.

Both are over rated and you would soon get bored and tire of them anyway.

Have fun with your hangovers though. lol

neil-h

No not necessarily a verification body. Take Doppler shift for example, this is generally taken to indicate that the universe is expanding/contracting. Now someone in the past did an experiment to prove this, that experiment can be repeated today to prove it again and it can be repeated in the future if necessary.

Now I'll use the bible as an example seeing its the holy scripture I'm familiar with. As far as I'm aware, no one has been reborn after crucifixion or managed to feed thousands with just a couple of fish. Hence my skepticism towards some claims of religion.

This is indeed the important part of my comment and arguably the biggest problem with debating with Atheists Personally if I we want to categorise people, I take more of an Agnostic view on religion/god. I'm not religious and don't particularly believe in a god, how ever untill existence is definitively proven or disproven then I'm quite happy to remain basically impartial in the discussion.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

A little warning.

I'm not going to go all the way back through this thread and spend an age editing posts, but from this point onwards I am politely asking that the word Kuffar (any spelling of) is no longer used in this thread. If it is, those using it may find themselves infracted or banned if they persist.

You can jump in and claim it's just a term to mean non-believer, but you know full well, you mean it to offend, whether you admit to that or not. Frankly to use such language makes you as bad as anyone belittling from the other side of the argument.

Feel free to keep on debating, but please can you all show a bit more respect towards one another from now on. You may have differences of OPINION, and most likely, nobody's is going to change, but you are all free to put them across, just do so in a polite manner.

I originally came onto this thread to defend the right for believers/religious folk to not be belittled by non-believers. Sadly some of the believers have been equally rude, which hardly helps any discussion.

Turbohot

I like this example. The metaphor inspires me to review my own thoughts, behaviours and my responses to my fellow humans and other living things.


There I was, feeling so cheated upon being ripped off my pound by a reformed, disabled, social services and state benefit supported ex-substance misuser near the river, where I sat peacefully at my lunch break from work. Thinking again, she only took a bit of my fish that God put in circulation for all the world to share. She flashed her 10ps and 20ps to me to exchange it for my pound coin, but then kept my pound and gave me a crafty wink instead in return. I still feel a bit abused by that, but hey, it was only a pound coin, not a pound of my flesh.

Shaid

This is the problem with religious folk. They aren't fluid. For example i won't be nice to someone then horrible when they won't play ball. I'll just be horrible from the start therefore there is no uncertainty there. I've noticed this across the board with all religious types.

Let's not get started on A- Rabs shall we.

hodgy0_2

I think, in the nicest possible way Shaid, that you are a little bit thick

With Your juvenile ramblings it is evident you are confusing religion and religious beliefs with the cultural identity of being a Muslim

Shaid

I would love to call you thick. However, i don't know you, i don't have the energy to follow your threads and make an accurate assessment on your thickness degree and i certainly don't care enough to be bothered to try.

I never claimed to be intelligent. I only maintained that you atheists are not as intelligent as you make out to be. Which is the point of this thread and so far i have not been proven wrong. I have had many atheistic nutters try to but just like yourself they failed (again)

Sure we have had the scientists, the judges, all other manner of atheistic clap trap however nothing to actually suggest you guys are the 'more' intelligent beings.

Your little dig further goes to prove my point and disprove yours

Shaid

I understand. Because the dead have not come to life you have a problem with religion. Right okay that makes perfect sense. I suppose if we had a modern day Noah or Moses who split the sea (most possible a Tsunami but that's another one for another day) you'd find it more credible.

Well i can't argue with that theory.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

im a jedi........

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Hodgy might not have made the point particularly diplomatically, but would you honestly dispute that if you and your siblings hadn't grown up in a Muslim family to begin with, and that family hadn't had close social ties with numerous other Muslim people, the odds of you still being or becoming a Muslim by the time you reached adulthood would have been much bigger than you winning the lottery? I think you'd struggle to argue the opposite very convincingly.

Similarly, not only will the social pressure on you and your siblings to at least keep up the appearance of being a Muslim once you've reached adulthood be very real, but the opportunities for you to actually step back and take some proper time to dispassionately weigh up the validity of your faith in terms of hard-nosed logic and historical accuracy are probably going to be fairly thin on the ground also.

Add all of that up, and I think you'd be hard-pressed to say that being a Muslim in modern Britain is any more about actual belief than de facto membership of a group, at least not for the vast majority in your generation or younger.

chopperman

Any adult who believes they have an invisible make believe friend has to either be a bit simple or part of the system that uses religion as a control tool.

john banks

I think it is more subtle than that chopperman, intelligent adults without any ulterior motive or secondary gain can be or become religious, and some of the methods (subconscious) through which they take on those beliefs and pass them to others can circumvent the protection methods which it sounds like you have developed to prevent you believing things that you or I might think are too important to be believed on the basis of the available evidence?

The things that honest and intelligent people can believe astonish me.

If it was as you say, religion would have been eradicated a few centuries ago.

RA Dunk

We have basically confirmed man came from evolution presented the facts by established scientists, bioligists and other clever people. Presented different fossils of the evolution going through various stages and yet they still believe humans came from God and we were moulded from clay, how can people be so naive?

john banks

Confirmation bias is one. I went to see www.godvsmindreader.com at the Fringe yesterday. Most interesting.

chopperman

I wasn't eradicated a few centuries ago because it was being used as it still is today in various parts of the world.
Western leaders dont need it as much these days to control and manipulate us. Unlike hundreds of years ago and indeed today in other countrys they have other methods to scare and control us. Our lives can be made a misery by the stroke of a pen and quite literally destroy all we have. What do you do to control people who have nothing to take? You threaten them with hell fire and brimstone. Its a powerful tool especially in countrys where the masses are uneducated. Just look at the middle eastern clerics rallying up armys of people willing to fight and die in the name of God. A tactic our leaders used with us hundreds of years ago.
Religion has caused so much suffering for so many over the years. It has also made some very rich powerful people.

john banks

Another interesting link:http://casualentropy.blogspot.co.uk/ see the flowchart

RA Dunk

I've been glued to this channel all afternoon. Athiest Experiance


I've also been back and watched the link which All posted, which I still don't agree with.

chopperman

Religion was a way to lay down some social rules like ,don't murder, steal or **** my wife ect. If you do you will suffer more than you can imagine for eternity in the pits of hell. Told about this from a young age and constantly reminded of this is social conditioning that can become ingrained. It was a clever way to control and build a society all living under the same rules. Over time leaders started to abuse this fear that's been conditioned into there people. They can now get the god fearing people to invade other countrys, kill the non believers and build an ever more powerful empire. We used this for our so called holy war (crusades) . Catholics have used religion to control and steal across south america and Africa . Now we witness Muslim leaders rallying up the troops by declaring Jihad. Religion is a very powerful tool, especially amongst the poor and uneducated.

neil-h

Sorry but you clearly don't if you think I have a problem with religion (or you are at the start of a promising career in politics and are merely practicing the fine art of spin).

I personally have no problem with religion what so ever, if you or anyone else choose to follow a religion that is entirely up to you and I full respect your right to do so.

The bit I have a problem with is the people who feel the need to try and enforce there views in others and belittle the opposition in any discussion. Be that the so called 'Atheists' who like to refer to religious types as simpletons, or your own use of semi derogatory terms to describe non-Muslims.