F1 drivers comfortable
12 May 2013, 08:34 PM
#31
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As Nigel Mansell once said - '....a trained monkey could drive these cars...'
Sitting here watching the highlights with my 8 year old son who loves it - I don't find it all that exciting anymore and really prefer BTCC.
But as someone else said, F1 was a fantastic spectacle in the days of Mansell, Senna et al, and before them in the time of Hunt and Lauda.
Sitting here watching the highlights with my 8 year old son who loves it - I don't find it all that exciting anymore and really prefer BTCC.
But as someone else said, F1 was a fantastic spectacle in the days of Mansell, Senna et al, and before them in the time of Hunt and Lauda.
F1 has always had some sort of driver / car management. 15 years ago how many cars would actually finish? Less than half the field probably. Drivers no longer have to manage the car itself as they are so reliable these days.
The tyres are wearing too fast that's obvious. Although when Pirelli first started providing tyres they were made to wear out too fast and everyone complained. They were then made too hard and everyone complainedthe tyres were lasting too long. I think they had it right the first time.
I love F1 for all its faults but it does bore me sometimes.
V8 Supercars on Motors TV is awesome IMO.
12 May 2013, 08:46 PM
#32
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I even prefer the amateur racing of the Golf GTi championship...
12 May 2013, 09:24 PM
#33
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And whatever the F1 supporters say, compare today's racing with that of the 1500 turbos in the 80's and it is dull as dishwater. The frontrunner's cars actually broke down or blew up back then, and sometimes they crashed them because they were more lairy to drive. I forget the year but Spa in the rain was one to remember, I expect Brundle still does.
MotoGP isn't much better, the 2-strokes were where the real spectacle was. They had to go as they had no bearing on commercial sales anymore, and the 4-strokes were OK for a while. But since they switched from 1000cc to 800cc, the racing spectacle has gone.
Too much electronics and aero in F1 (IMO) and too much electronics in MotoGP.
World Superbike and BSB are still pretty good at the moment.
12 May 2013, 09:45 PM
#34
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Why do we need 2 tyre compounds?
Tyres which wear out too fast turn the race into a "who can look after their tyres best" competition!
Lose the crazy steering wheels! Keep the drink button and the radio button and maybe the drs but lose the rest of it!
Tyres which wear out too fast turn the race into a "who can look after their tyres best" competition!
Lose the crazy steering wheels! Keep the drink button and the radio button and maybe the drs but lose the rest of it!
12 May 2013, 11:43 PM
#36
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Also 'brake bias adjust'.Why don't they use their feet like the rest of us?
Adjusting the engine to conserve fuel.If you haven't put enough fuel in then tough.
13 May 2013, 07:21 AM
#37
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While some of the comments on this thread are absolutely top drawer stupidity made by the utterly uninformed there are others that are spot on and a trend through those that is very true sadly!
F1 2013 is about tyre management and little else. Yesterday's race was pathetic. I want to see drivers wringing the maximum out of the car not out of the tyres. The underlying tone to this thread is 'it's boring' and yesterday it was.... boring!!!
P.S. Why is this not in the motorsport section?
F1 2013 is about tyre management and little else. Yesterday's race was pathetic. I want to see drivers wringing the maximum out of the car not out of the tyres. The underlying tone to this thread is 'it's boring' and yesterday it was.... boring!!!
P.S. Why is this not in the motorsport section?
13 May 2013, 08:23 AM
#38
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There were some gem team communications from the pits with Hamilton yesterday..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22500230
You can hear his frustration in this vid. @1.20
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22500230
You can hear his frustration in this vid. @1.20
13 May 2013, 08:37 AM
#39
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We passed a sleek black truck last week on the autoroute de deux mers written Manor racing Marussia.
Was this F1...
Was this F1...
Last edited by dpb; 13 May 2013 at 08:39 AM.
13 May 2013, 10:05 AM
#40
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I thought F1 had made a good effort over the past 3 seasons to improve the racing but we seem to be going backwards again!
F1 is the top of Motorsport surely the driver's ability should play a huge part in the outcome of the race - it doesn't look that way to me!
F1 is the top of Motorsport surely the driver's ability should play a huge part in the outcome of the race - it doesn't look that way to me!
13 May 2013, 10:30 AM
#41
I would suggest a one-way system from the driver to the team only, but you just know some teams would find a way to make it two way without anyone knowing!
Last edited by ReallyReallyGoodMeat; 13 May 2013 at 10:32 AM.
13 May 2013, 10:31 AM
#42
But what's the incentive to develop a great car, when they just stick a load of ballast in to slow the fastest down to keep the series competitive and like bumper cars?
13 May 2013, 10:56 AM
#43
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There were some exciting bits in yesterdays race, mainly Raikkonen overtaking.
This year has been ruined by the tyres. Drivers should be allowed to drive flat out for the entire race, not start managing the tyres from the get-go.
I'm thankful of DRS though, at least it means cars change position out on the track rather than the dull old days where they only seemed to pass on pit stops.
This year has been ruined by the tyres. Drivers should be allowed to drive flat out for the entire race, not start managing the tyres from the get-go.
I'm thankful of DRS though, at least it means cars change position out on the track rather than the dull old days where they only seemed to pass on pit stops.
13 May 2013, 11:07 AM
#45
Footballers are not pansies - they are cheaters but not pansies. They may go down if someone brushes their hair and they are in the penalty area, but they take a fair amount of knocks and kicks and will stay upright when it's in their interests to, like during corners.
Last edited by ReallyReallyGoodMeat; 13 May 2013 at 11:08 AM.
13 May 2013, 11:13 AM
#46
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Anyone who thinks F1 drivers are pansies just needs to take a look at the crash at the start of the Spa race last year and realise how close Alonso came to getting killed or at least getting a serious head injury.
You also need a pretty high level of intelligence to compete in F1 not something that can be said of footballers if a complete feckless embarassment of an imbecile like Rooney is considered a benchmark.
You also need a pretty high level of intelligence to compete in F1 not something that can be said of footballers if a complete feckless embarassment of an imbecile like Rooney is considered a benchmark.
13 May 2013, 11:35 AM
#47
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Does anyone know the answer to this -
During the build up on Sunday they had Nico talking to Martin about about his steering wheel. He was talking about the diff adjust switch which has settings for corner entry and corner exit. Am i right to assume that they are adjusting this switch mid corner on every corner??? If that is the case it is simple crazy!
During the build up on Sunday they had Nico talking to Martin about about his steering wheel. He was talking about the diff adjust switch which has settings for corner entry and corner exit. Am i right to assume that they are adjusting this switch mid corner on every corner??? If that is the case it is simple crazy!
13 May 2013, 01:11 PM
#52
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Somewhere there is an onboard video of Schumacher's pole lap at Monaco last year. The amount of adjustments he is making throughout the lap is insane, to be able to do all that and get a fast lap time is simply amazing.
13 May 2013, 01:29 PM
#53
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Careful for what you wish for people! 
The reason the tyres were made softer (requested by the teams and the FIA) was due to one of the Canadian GP's, 2010 may be. The Bridgestone tyres were too soft for the recently re-surfaced track and hence why so many cars had to stop 4 or 5 times. It was hailed as one fo the greatest races. So, Pirelli were asked when they came into F1, to try and replicate this.
In my book, they have delivered what was asked of them.
Tyres that last a race distance are no fun. We had this with Schumacher/Ferrari/Bridgestone and everyone got bored. Although I agree that it was great to watch Schumacher spend 90 minutes at qualifying speed, it didn't promote great racing.
Now we have super soft tyres that last 8 laps and everyone is bored again.
I really enjoyed yesterdays race. Ok, I support Alonso so I may be slightly biased! But at around lap 6, I could see by looking at the live timing that the cars were so evenly matched and that around 15 seconds covered most of the pack. This meant that the first driver to pit for new tyres should see a clear advantage with faster rubber and gain track position over a number of driver's. Lap 7 and Webber pits and after everyone else had made their own stops in the next few laps, he moved from 11 to 7 I think. But, he would also have to make the tyres last that little bit longer than his rivals.
To me, that was fascinating. I love strategic racing and is why I really wish they would bring back re-fuelling.
I really wish F1 would stop trying to please the casual viewer (which most comments on here seem to be from) and concentrate on their existing fan base.
Spain, I feel, was an anomaly. I suspect most tracks left this seasons will 2 or 3 stops and Pirelli are muting changes by Silverstone. Mark my words though, if they do indeed make the tyres harder, this will only benifit one team and that is Red Bull. And I don't know about you, but I would rather see a driver win on his own merit and skill rather than just by having the fastest car. As Brundle mentons time and time again, F1 driver's are well paid heating engineers. There is so much that they have to manage throughout a race and tyres are just one area:
Diff Setting
Brake Bias - usually adjusted for most corners
Kers
Kers Harvesting - which in turn effect the brake bias
Tyre temp
Engine temp
Brake temp
DRS
Engine map
And so much that we don't even know about. All of the above can have a huge impact on a race result, so I really don't think that asking the driver's to manage their tyres better is much more of a stretch on their mental capacity.
The reason the tyres were made softer (requested by the teams and the FIA) was due to one of the Canadian GP's, 2010 may be. The Bridgestone tyres were too soft for the recently re-surfaced track and hence why so many cars had to stop 4 or 5 times. It was hailed as one fo the greatest races. So, Pirelli were asked when they came into F1, to try and replicate this.
In my book, they have delivered what was asked of them.
Tyres that last a race distance are no fun. We had this with Schumacher/Ferrari/Bridgestone and everyone got bored. Although I agree that it was great to watch Schumacher spend 90 minutes at qualifying speed, it didn't promote great racing.
Now we have super soft tyres that last 8 laps and everyone is bored again.
I really enjoyed yesterdays race. Ok, I support Alonso so I may be slightly biased! But at around lap 6, I could see by looking at the live timing that the cars were so evenly matched and that around 15 seconds covered most of the pack. This meant that the first driver to pit for new tyres should see a clear advantage with faster rubber and gain track position over a number of driver's. Lap 7 and Webber pits and after everyone else had made their own stops in the next few laps, he moved from 11 to 7 I think. But, he would also have to make the tyres last that little bit longer than his rivals.
To me, that was fascinating. I love strategic racing and is why I really wish they would bring back re-fuelling.
I really wish F1 would stop trying to please the casual viewer (which most comments on here seem to be from) and concentrate on their existing fan base.
Spain, I feel, was an anomaly. I suspect most tracks left this seasons will 2 or 3 stops and Pirelli are muting changes by Silverstone. Mark my words though, if they do indeed make the tyres harder, this will only benifit one team and that is Red Bull. And I don't know about you, but I would rather see a driver win on his own merit and skill rather than just by having the fastest car. As Brundle mentons time and time again, F1 driver's are well paid heating engineers. There is so much that they have to manage throughout a race and tyres are just one area:
Diff Setting
Brake Bias - usually adjusted for most corners
Kers
Kers Harvesting - which in turn effect the brake bias
Tyre temp
Engine temp
Brake temp
DRS
Engine map
And so much that we don't even know about. All of the above can have a huge impact on a race result, so I really don't think that asking the driver's to manage their tyres better is much more of a stretch on their mental capacity.
13 May 2013, 01:32 PM
#54
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I noticed last year it seemed Schumeys left hand was off the wheel as much as it was on it. Didn't seem like any of the other teams needs as much 'trimming' throughout the lap?
Or is this the Merc mechanical suspension thing I think Coulthard mentioned in qualifying?
Or is this the Merc mechanical suspension thing I think Coulthard mentioned in qualifying?
13 May 2013, 01:55 PM
#55
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Careful for what you wish for people!
The reason the tyres were made softer (requested by the teams and the FIA) was due to one of the Canadian GP's, 2010 may be. The Bridgestone tyres were too soft for the recently re-surfaced track and hence why so many cars had to stop 4 or 5 times. It was hailed as one fo the greatest races. So, Pirelli were asked when they came into F1, to try and replicate this.
In my book, they have delivered what was asked of them.
Tyres that last a race distance are no fun. We had this with Schumacher/Ferrari/Bridgestone and everyone got bored. Although I agree that it was great to watch Schumacher spend 90 minutes at qualifying speed, it didn't promote great racing.
Now we have super soft tyres that last 8 laps and everyone is bored again.
I really enjoyed yesterdays race. Ok, I support Alonso so I may be slightly biased! But at around lap 6, I could see by looking at the live timing that the cars were so evenly matched and that around 15 seconds covered most of the pack. This meant that the first driver to pit for new tyres should see a clear advantage with faster rubber and gain track position over a number of driver's. Lap 7 and Webber pits and after everyone else had made their own stops in the next few laps, he moved from 11 to 7 I think. But, he would also have to make the tyres last that little bit longer than his rivals.
To me, that was fascinating. I love strategic racing and is why I really wish they would bring back re-fuelling.
I really wish F1 would stop trying to please the casual viewer (which most comments on here seem to be from) and concentrate on their existing fan base.
Spain, I feel, was an anomaly. I suspect most tracks left this seasons will 2 or 3 stops and Pirelli are muting changes by Silverstone. Mark my words though, if they do indeed make the tyres harder, this will only benifit one team and that is Red Bull. And I don't know about you, but I would rather see a driver win on his own merit and skill rather than just by having the fastest car. As Brundle mentons time and time again, F1 driver's are well paid heating engineers. There is so much that they have to manage throughout a race and tyres are just one area:
Diff Setting
Brake Bias - usually adjusted for most corners
Kers
Kers Harvesting - which in turn effect the brake bias
Tyre temp
Engine temp
Brake temp
DRS
Engine map
And so much that we don't even know about. All of the above can have a huge impact on a race result, so I really don't think that asking the driver's to manage their tyres better is much more of a stretch on their mental capacity.
The reason the tyres were made softer (requested by the teams and the FIA) was due to one of the Canadian GP's, 2010 may be. The Bridgestone tyres were too soft for the recently re-surfaced track and hence why so many cars had to stop 4 or 5 times. It was hailed as one fo the greatest races. So, Pirelli were asked when they came into F1, to try and replicate this.
In my book, they have delivered what was asked of them.
Tyres that last a race distance are no fun. We had this with Schumacher/Ferrari/Bridgestone and everyone got bored. Although I agree that it was great to watch Schumacher spend 90 minutes at qualifying speed, it didn't promote great racing.
Now we have super soft tyres that last 8 laps and everyone is bored again.
I really enjoyed yesterdays race. Ok, I support Alonso so I may be slightly biased! But at around lap 6, I could see by looking at the live timing that the cars were so evenly matched and that around 15 seconds covered most of the pack. This meant that the first driver to pit for new tyres should see a clear advantage with faster rubber and gain track position over a number of driver's. Lap 7 and Webber pits and after everyone else had made their own stops in the next few laps, he moved from 11 to 7 I think. But, he would also have to make the tyres last that little bit longer than his rivals.
To me, that was fascinating. I love strategic racing and is why I really wish they would bring back re-fuelling.
I really wish F1 would stop trying to please the casual viewer (which most comments on here seem to be from) and concentrate on their existing fan base.
Spain, I feel, was an anomaly. I suspect most tracks left this seasons will 2 or 3 stops and Pirelli are muting changes by Silverstone. Mark my words though, if they do indeed make the tyres harder, this will only benifit one team and that is Red Bull. And I don't know about you, but I would rather see a driver win on his own merit and skill rather than just by having the fastest car. As Brundle mentons time and time again, F1 driver's are well paid heating engineers. There is so much that they have to manage throughout a race and tyres are just one area:
Diff Setting
Brake Bias - usually adjusted for most corners
Kers
Kers Harvesting - which in turn effect the brake bias
Tyre temp
Engine temp
Brake temp
DRS
Engine map
And so much that we don't even know about. All of the above can have a huge impact on a race result, so I really don't think that asking the driver's to manage their tyres better is much more of a stretch on their mental capacity.
I think it needs some adjustment and if that plays into the hands of Red Bull so be it. F1 is about the fastest car as well as the fastest driver and if the cars are so strangled by the tyres that the playing field is somewhat levelled out then what's the point?
Also if yesterday's race was taken as an example it is clear to me that Hamilton is not the 12th fastest/best driver in F1 so the current situation is still not letting the best drivers shine through all the time anyway.
At the end of the day the lap times weren't that much quicker than GP2 for much of the race and if F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport they should be considerably quicker than the supporting/feeder series!
13 May 2013, 02:09 PM
#56
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I noticed last year it seemed Schumeys left hand was off the wheel as much as it was on it. Didn't seem like any of the other teams needs as much 'trimming' throughout the lap?
Or is this the Merc mechanical suspension thing I think Coulthard mentioned in qualifying?
Or is this the Merc mechanical suspension thing I think Coulthard mentioned in qualifying?
I know I read that Lewis has the brake bias settings adjusted to more or less - front - mid - rear options. Schumacher on the other hand would have 2 or 3 times the amount of possible adjustments available.
13 May 2013, 02:11 PM
#57
Whilst I agree with your overall message, it was pretty widely agreed that the Bridgestone/Ferrari relationship was one of the main reasons for Schumacher's dominance (they were effectively specially-designed Ferrari tyres), so with one tyre source as it is now, it would be less of an issue.
Last edited by ReallyReallyGoodMeat; 13 May 2013 at 02:18 PM.
13 May 2013, 02:23 PM
#58
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Your average lap needs several brake bias adjustments, 2 hits of DRS, 5 or 6 of KERS and then the driver will play with KERS harvest plus brake bias, plus diff, and then diff on its own which has 3 or 4 settings. After that the driver needs to adjust fuel mapping, engine brake map etc etc as requestsed by the team - again this might be once or twice a lap in some cases.
Then if it rains, the driver needs to change various settings such as tyre selection, throttle mapping, fuel mapping, diff etc.
Coming into the pits they need to do pit lane procedure which is more than just pressing the pit speed limit button.
And once they have done all that they might be required to make more settings on the fly and sometimes even re-boot some sub-systems.
There is no pit to car data, its only car to pit - so the driver has to make all changes.
Then do all this, whilst trying to overtake the car ahead.... easy....
As for the sport is too safe - perhaps - but there have been some massive crashes over the last ten years and its only the cars that have saved the drivers with the HANS, crash structures and better helmets. Webbers roll springs to mind, as does Massas incident with the spring and of course Kubica in Canada plus the 3 major accidents at Sa Paulo with Alonso, PDR and Webber. I think if those accidents had happened pre 1995 we would have seen the deaths of Alonso, Webber, Kubica already. Not a nice thought.
As for pay being too much, most of the new boys in F1 come from serious family money, and $5-$10M per year as a driver is not that much consdiering their family business makes $Bns a year, and plus it probably cost them $10 - $20M to get into F1 and into a top team to start with!!!
Then if it rains, the driver needs to change various settings such as tyre selection, throttle mapping, fuel mapping, diff etc.
Coming into the pits they need to do pit lane procedure which is more than just pressing the pit speed limit button.
And once they have done all that they might be required to make more settings on the fly and sometimes even re-boot some sub-systems.
There is no pit to car data, its only car to pit - so the driver has to make all changes.
Then do all this, whilst trying to overtake the car ahead.... easy....
As for the sport is too safe - perhaps - but there have been some massive crashes over the last ten years and its only the cars that have saved the drivers with the HANS, crash structures and better helmets. Webbers roll springs to mind, as does Massas incident with the spring and of course Kubica in Canada plus the 3 major accidents at Sa Paulo with Alonso, PDR and Webber. I think if those accidents had happened pre 1995 we would have seen the deaths of Alonso, Webber, Kubica already. Not a nice thought.
As for pay being too much, most of the new boys in F1 come from serious family money, and $5-$10M per year as a driver is not that much consdiering their family business makes $Bns a year, and plus it probably cost them $10 - $20M to get into F1 and into a top team to start with!!!
