Stevesbluewrx

iTrader: (4)

Gob Smacked!!! I've never seen one like that. Reminds me of the B52 crash in Texas (I think?)

Poor souls on he plane didn't have a chance.


Steve

billythekid

IIRC the AB is at 6000+ft AMSL. So already at MTOW + high rate of climb departure due location + field at high alt = not much room for a mistake! If the load moved then its not possible to recover. Very sad.

Skoobie Dhu

iTrader: (3)

Before try to guess what may have happened it might be worth reading through the PPRUNE thread, any significant air accidents are discussed and debated to quite a detailed level.


http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...sh-bagram.html

Fabioso

Shocking watching such a big plane do that........

I feel sorry for the loved ones with their relatives final moments being plastered all over the world.......

Leslie

Difficult to say since I have no practical experience of the aircraft's handling characteristics,

If that happened in a VC10 then I would expect it to take anything up to 1500 feet or more to regain full flying control. It would only be possible to actually regain control if the original cause of the problem were removed and if it was due to rearward movement of the cargo as I was guessing then it would not be possible to relocate the cargo because of the weight involved and in any case in the time available.

We were certainly very fussy about the placement of any cargo and also how well it was secured in the VC10 if the aircraft was being used to carry cargo as apposed to passengers.

I once nearly lost control of a Devon aircraft just after takeoff. It was a 7 seater passenger aircraft and we had 6 passengers. One passenger was told to sit in a seat at the front of the passenger compartment. He decided off his own bat to sit at the back of the aircraft before takeoff and because there was already a rearward centre of gravity of the aircraft due to experimental equipment mounted in it, his action caused the CG to be dangerously far back. We could not see that he had moved.

As I took off the nose started to rise of its own accord and it was touch and go whether I could retain control. Luckily it accelerated by a couple of knots and I just managed to retain control with the extra little bit of elevator control with the extra couple of knots airspeed.

Even though he was a pretty high ranking scientific officer he had a long one way conversation with me after we landed at our destination!

There is a well worn saying which goes "I learned about flying from that!"

Les

zip106

Thanks Les, quite an insight to just how important placement is.

Something I've never thought about on an aeroplane, tbh.
I know from the helicopter rides I've had that they seat the passengers to balance the craft, but with something as big as say, a 747, do they do the same as you check in?

hodgy0_2

Only if you are a fat bastid

Leslie

Thats about right!

Les

kevo10

Tis a tragedy indeed .Ideed the only saving grace, if there is one, is that all onboard wouldnt have had tht long to face what was bout to happen. Terrible waste of life.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Like Stevie Blue says, does have shades of the B52 crash but that one was down to the pilot being a showoff, not a sudden, catastrophic lack of control, the nearest previous crash to this that it put me in mind of was this,




Watching that video is like a nightmare, as someone else said, surreal, like something from a film, it just doesnt look real but at the same time does.

Occasionally I have seen and done a double take as they dont look right, usually it is just my eyes haent picked up the direction of travel and assumed another, if I had seen this I would have probably thought that, then you realise that it is indeed in big trouble.

The theory about the shifting freight sounds plausible and likely, there is a concept of a "tactical departure" but it isnt official, itis just a common sense approach to getting away from the ground in a place where the ground is potentially full of nutters with RPG's, until at height, a big cargo plane is a sitting duck.

RIP to all involved, I suppose at least it was over mercifully quickly.

jods

Pilot here was a 42 carat wnaker.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Yep, Bud Holland I think he was called, apparently when he realised they were screwed, he said "Sorry Guys" over the intercom, he had a track record of reckless behaviour, there was nothign wrong with the plane, just the pilot, this was, it seems likely, the other way around but the net result was similar, a huge plane at an impossibly close to the ground before an ineviatable in sickening impact.

I think Bud Hollands attitude was one of over confidence, taking liberties, trying to be the big man in a huge bomber, he seemed too ignore all the operating procedures and it was seemingly tolerated to an extent, that very gung ho "Yee Har" attitude, I think we are all capable of it, we fling our cars about and they seem to always respond, push it more and more and we get to the point we feel invincible, usually we get a scare and back off but sometimes it ends badly, its a male thing, we all need to recoginse when we are doing it.

Leslie

Looked as though he pulled the aircraft into a high speed stall by heaving the nose up at low speed just after takeoff and banking as well. With the wings stalled in such a way he would have lost aileron control as well as the required lift as well as most of his elevator control.

Mindlessly stupid I'd say!

I used to do a similar takeoff into a wingover just after takeoff for displays but I always made sure I had all the speed I needed to control the machine and also I did not pull the aircraft anywhere near its limit for the speed I did have. Its all down to the way that you do it.

Les

Ste RB5138

Never seen that before, shocking how quick it goes wrong, with no chance of recovery.

Jamie

Taliban had nothing to do with the crash i can't be arsed to read what is above but from what i got told was weight shifting.

mrmadcap

What seems strange to me is how this hasn't been reported in the main stream media.

Moley

iTrader: (9)

Maybe you should have read it.... would have stopped you making a pointless post

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

The video J4CKO showed above is a aircraft losing control because its gust locks were left in place (or something like that). Which meant the pilot had no elevator control: As soon as the plane became airborne, the crew were just passengers.

The B52 incident is here ( 1:40mins ):


That was 100% due to the pilot being a ********: Where he banks the plane far too hard: Wings give the most lift when horizontal...the more vertical they become, the less lift they generate. Quite simply the B52 just slipped out of the sky.

Cpt Jack Sparrow

iTrader: (14)

I just got back from 2 weeks in Florida, it was main news over there as the company that ran the plane and those involved were reported to be from central Florida.

RIP.

Paul

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

The turbines on a 747 require significant airflow to create forward thrust
& that military bases in war zones require vertical accent in fear of a SAM or RPG strike
In this instance the turbines were at such a steep rate virtually allowing no air in & thus creating negative thrust / you can push all the fuel through you want but if a turbine has no air it will stall... Protocol dictates & as long as there is war you will see such cases

Cpt Jack Sparrow

iTrader: (14)

On the B52 clip, always amazes me at again the lack of response from the other guy filming in the bottom left of the shot, as seen above.

Paul

DYK

I don't know the flying capabilities of a B-52 but that turn looked a bit of a crazy thing to do being so low to the ground and such a big plane.
Watching the vid though it kinda looked like the pilot came out of the turn but looked as if he turned in again heading coming round towards where the guy was filming ...

billythekid

IIRC the BUFF was well known to stall out at low speeds high bank angles and drop the wing tip. Banking past 45 degrees in any large plane is always a bad idea that close to the ground as you say lift is generated away from the top of the wing...

IIRC one or more of the crew had already started the ejection sequence as she went in but it takes several seconds in the 52.

CrisPDuk

The pilot of the B52 had several compaints against him for reckless flying, but the brass kept letting him do airshows because he was good for PR :

IIRC the guy in the co-pilot seat only flew with him because the rostered co-pilot refused to get onboard the aircraft

The families of most of the crew were on the ground and saw it happen

DYK

What baffles me a little though is a pilot trains to fly a certain type/types of aircraft,take the B-52 for example.So during training obviously the pilot learns all about the aircraft,what it can and can't do etc,you would think the pilot would know if i do this turn in such a way,chances are the aircraft isn't going to come out of it...

Leslie

We always did a full external check before flying an aircraft and part of the check was to ensure that the control locks had been removed and also that the undercarriage downlock safety pins were removed.

So embarassing to get airborne only to find that you could not raise the undercarriage because the downlock pins had not been removed.

Les