2011 Census
12 December 2012, 05:14 PM
#61
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Explain what you mean by the expression 'cloud your view' then? How is that not saying it is anything but an incorrect point of view?
No, but then that is not what is being debated at this point. I am not saying I agree with CoB or yourself on the immigration issue, but you are saying that CoB was condescending first in this thread and I am pointing out that in my view (no doubt clouded of course) it was in fact you that started it! Once we have this sorted out we can get back to the issue in hand so apologise and we can all move on 
12 December 2012, 05:19 PM
#62
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Lets be fair though shall we, Martin. The majority, huge majority of the recent immigrant work force influx hasn't been graduates has it? No. It has been people looking for the low paid jobs. That's a fact in Scunthorpe where myself and Jeff reside. If you're only looking at it from a point of view of qualified graduates as opposed to the already mentioned huge majority of min wage workforce, then no wonder your view is polar opposite to line.
Here in Scunthorpe the experience is vastly different. The overwhelming majority of Eastern European workers are working in minimum wage jobs or at car washes. They drift between jobs at various factories/warehouses usually depending on the workload or season.
When unemployed I applied at a newly opened factory for tin can production. I was turned back because I wasn't Eastern European because that was the companies preference. Why? Company based in Poland. It isn't right but I was told this by a receptionist and then reiterated by a manager, both iirc were Polish.
Anyway I digress, you have your wealth of qualified Eastern European graduates and we have them here, unqualified to that level in the majority, working the min wage jobs.
Here in Scunthorpe the experience is vastly different. The overwhelming majority of Eastern European workers are working in minimum wage jobs or at car washes. They drift between jobs at various factories/warehouses usually depending on the workload or season.
When unemployed I applied at a newly opened factory for tin can production. I was turned back because I wasn't Eastern European because that was the companies preference. Why? Company based in Poland. It isn't right but I was told this by a receptionist and then reiterated by a manager, both iirc were Polish.
Anyway I digress, you have your wealth of qualified Eastern European graduates and we have them here, unqualified to that level in the majority, working the min wage jobs.
We have big challenges ahead, an ageing population means we need more immigrants working and paying taxes to support the retired and retiring population. This is a huge political and social issue for everyone. Simply saying the immigration is bad doesn't cut it, we need a balanced debate on this.
So let's at least agree that some immigration is good and necessary
12 December 2012, 05:30 PM
#64
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Most of the immigrant work in London and in the NHS, and other public services is low paid. And basically essential to the running of our country.
We have big challenges ahead, an ageing population means we need more immigrants working and paying taxes to support the retired and retiring population. This is a huge political and social issue for everyone. Simply saying the immigration is bad doesn't cut it, we need a balanced debate on this.
So let's at least agree that some immigration is good and necessary
We have big challenges ahead, an ageing population means we need more immigrants working and paying taxes to support the retired and retiring population. This is a huge political and social issue for everyone. Simply saying the immigration is bad doesn't cut it, we need a balanced debate on this.
So let's at least agree that some immigration is good and necessary
For the record I hardly drink and certainly don't have a local.
12 December 2012, 05:36 PM
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Just point me in the direction to where the specific phrase "immigration" is bad or words to that effect were said. Some is good, but not the types where they are say working cash in hand or not paying relevant taxes. What about where quite a few I know of buy as much stuff from their homeland rather than being good eggs and putting what they earn back into the system.
For the record I hardly drink and certainly don't have a local.
For the record I hardly drink and certainly don't have a local.
On your example of bad immigration; it looks like we are converging on an area of total agreement. That too would be my idea of where the system has got it badly wrong
12 December 2012, 05:45 PM
#66
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On the specific words, I don't know I'm not going to trawl back through the thread. It is/was certainly implicit from you posts though, and you haven't exactly given the other side of the argument much airtime.
On your example of bad immigration; it looks like we are converging on an area of total agreement. That too would be my idea of where the system has got it badly wrong
On your example of bad immigration; it looks like we are converging on an area of total agreement. That too would be my idea of where the system has got it badly wrong
Apology accepted
12 December 2012, 08:04 PM
#69
OK, why not? You are basing YOUR premise on a very few graduates in the affluent south east.
WE are basing ours on the many hundreds of un-skilled workers in a VERY depressed region.
I would say that 99% bad was VERY fair to your premise.
WHY were THEY allowed to come? Are you aware that only the UK, Ireland and Sweden allowed anyone to come? The rest told them NOT to bother unless: there was a job they had skills for, and no indigenous workers wanted the same job. NO other EC states pay the benefits to these people that the UK does, AND WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!!
WE are basing ours on the many hundreds of un-skilled workers in a VERY depressed region.
I would say that 99% bad was VERY fair to your premise.
WHY were THEY allowed to come? Are you aware that only the UK, Ireland and Sweden allowed anyone to come? The rest told them NOT to bother unless: there was a job they had skills for, and no indigenous workers wanted the same job. NO other EC states pay the benefits to these people that the UK does, AND WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!!
12 December 2012, 08:12 PM
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OK, why not? You are basing YOUR premise on a very few graduates in the affluent south east.
WE are basing ours on the many hundreds of un-skilled workers in a VERY depressed region.
I would say that 99% bad was VERY fair to your premise.
WHY were THEY allowed to come? Are you aware that only the UK, Ireland and Sweden allowed anyone to come? The rest told them NOT to bother unless: there was a job they had skills for, and no indigenous workers wanted the same job. NO other EC states pay the benefits to these people that the UK does, AND WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!!
WE are basing ours on the many hundreds of un-skilled workers in a VERY depressed region.
I would say that 99% bad was VERY fair to your premise.
WHY were THEY allowed to come? Are you aware that only the UK, Ireland and Sweden allowed anyone to come? The rest told them NOT to bother unless: there was a job they had skills for, and no indigenous workers wanted the same job. NO other EC states pay the benefits to these people that the UK does, AND WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!!!!
Ever been in a hospital?
We cannot afford not to have a large immigrant population. What you propose would be an economic disaster for this country.
btw nobody would argue the point you make about benefits, but that is the exception not the rule. And nobody would argue against tightening up the rules. But to say immigration has been 99% negative for this country is a crass and ill-thought out gut reaction and an insult to the generations of people that have come here worked hard and contributed to the fabric of our society
12 December 2012, 08:16 PM
#71
Oh now stop. Of course I've been to the **** hole that is now London...AND I've seen the whites no-go areas. (Where are the blacks' no-go areas btw?).
Plus I'd like to bet I've had way more time in hospital/under the hospital, in the last five years than you. So I'm WELL aware of the part played in our beleagured NHS by immigrants, and their offspring.
But we arent discussing immigrants per se. Me and Andy are discussing the HUGE numbers of Eastern Europeans, mostly with low, or zero skills, welcomed with open arms by your mate Bliar. And you are well aware we are.
Plus I'd like to bet I've had way more time in hospital/under the hospital, in the last five years than you. So I'm WELL aware of the part played in our beleagured NHS by immigrants, and their offspring.
But we arent discussing immigrants per se. Me and Andy are discussing the HUGE numbers of Eastern Europeans, mostly with low, or zero skills, welcomed with open arms by your mate Bliar. And you are well aware we are.
12 December 2012, 08:50 PM
#72
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Oh now stop. Of course I've been to the **** hole that is now London...AND I've seen the whites no-go areas. (Where are the blacks' no-go areas btw?).
Plus I'd like to bet I've had way more time in hospital/under the hospital, in the last five years than you. So I'm WELL aware of the part played in our beleagured NHS by immigrants, and their offspring.
But we arent discussing immigrants per se. Me and Andy are discussing the HUGE numbers of Eastern Europeans, mostly with low, or zero skills, welcomed with open arms by your mate Bliar. And you are well aware we are.
Plus I'd like to bet I've had way more time in hospital/under the hospital, in the last five years than you. So I'm WELL aware of the part played in our beleagured NHS by immigrants, and their offspring.
But we arent discussing immigrants per se. Me and Andy are discussing the HUGE numbers of Eastern Europeans, mostly with low, or zero skills, welcomed with open arms by your mate Bliar. And you are well aware we are.
12 December 2012, 09:12 PM
#76
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Oh now stop. Of course I've been to the **** hole that is now London...AND I've seen the whites no-go areas. (Where are the blacks' no-go areas btw?).
Plus I'd like to bet I've had way more time in hospital/under the hospital, in the last five years than you. So I'm WELL aware of the part played in our beleagured NHS by immigrants, and their offspring.
But we arent discussing immigrants per se. Me and Andy are discussing the HUGE numbers of Eastern Europeans, mostly with low, or zero skills, welcomed with open arms by your mate Bliar. And you are well aware we are.
Plus I'd like to bet I've had way more time in hospital/under the hospital, in the last five years than you. So I'm WELL aware of the part played in our beleagured NHS by immigrants, and their offspring.
But we arent discussing immigrants per se. Me and Andy are discussing the HUGE numbers of Eastern Europeans, mostly with low, or zero skills, welcomed with open arms by your mate Bliar. And you are well aware we are.
I don't necessarily disagree about the european influx, but this is an open free market, and economics dictate I'm afraid, that's the way markets are supposed to operate.
btw ALL of the major economic powers in Europe have huge immigrant populations, this isn't a British issue, this is globalisation...get used to it
12 December 2012, 10:15 PM
#77
And London is overcrowded, dirty, unfriendly, cold, fekking ugly and VERY VERY expensive. In short: a sh1thole.
And as for free market and such, it's the SAME RULES for every EU country...but only three of them were needy enough, or in our case, stupid enough, to say, "come one, come all."
As I've already said, if you can name another EC country that let everyone in, no matter what, then pays child benefit etc back to the home country, go ahead and name them? Nope, me neither
The whole thrust of this argument is not about immigrant populations. It's about the huge influx of Eastern europeans, sanctioned by your mate Billy Liar and NOT by any other country. You know, the 60% rise in immigration in the last ten years? THOSE immigrants. Can we stick to that? Please?
And you DO realise that, because of our government's utter naivety over that, the NEXT lot, the Bulgarians and the Romanians, are allowed to take our government to the ECHR if we attempt to block them as the other countries did the first wave. Precedent, don't y'know?
And we, of course, being soft as ****, will cave and let them ALL in.....
How could even Lying Labour have been SO stupid...and all for an experiment...at OUR expense, as usual ?
12 December 2012, 11:11 PM
#78
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Which ones mate? How would you workout who to send home or just put everyone on a boat?
There are many who are well embedded in British Culture and Society and those who have generations planted here and who do support their country, honestly...
What happens to those folks, are they a part of the same '*******'?
If I was to use that logic, then I only need to look at the next generation of English people to see what future you would have (young disillusioned kids making babies, trampling on folks outside their home and creating an of fear and terror)...
There are many who are well embedded in British Culture and Society and those who have generations planted here and who do support their country, honestly...
What happens to those folks, are they a part of the same '*******'?
If I was to use that logic, then I only need to look at the next generation of English people to see what future you would have (young disillusioned kids making babies, trampling on folks outside their home and creating an of fear and terror)...
13 December 2012, 06:37 AM
#79
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Oh now stop. Of course I've been to the **** hole that is now London...AND I've seen the whites no-go areas. (Where are the blacks' no-go areas btw?).
Plus I'd like to bet I've had way more time in hospital/under the hospital, in the last five years than you. So I'm WELL aware of the part played in our beleagured NHS by immigrants, and their offspring.
But we arent discussing immigrants per se. Me and Andy are discussing the HUGE numbers of Eastern Europeans, mostly with low, or zero skills, welcomed with open arms by your mate Bliar. And you are well aware we are.
Plus I'd like to bet I've had way more time in hospital/under the hospital, in the last five years than you. So I'm WELL aware of the part played in our beleagured NHS by immigrants, and their offspring.
But we arent discussing immigrants per se. Me and Andy are discussing the HUGE numbers of Eastern Europeans, mostly with low, or zero skills, welcomed with open arms by your mate Bliar. And you are well aware we are.
Seriously mate you call London a sh1thole and you live in Scunthorpe??
13 December 2012, 12:09 PM
#83
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When we had an economic boom we needed the immigrants, I gave more jobs to fit Polish and Estonian girls than I could ever remember, they were hard working and eager to please, everything English staff were not. Now we are in the **** we have a problem, anyone who does not acknowledge, that 1 in 8 people in a country being an immigrant is a serious problem is delusional. The solution is simple, keep the EE girls to carry on as waitress's nurses, lap dancers and hookers, send the guys home so English lads can get their ****ty minimum wage jobs back and then spent their wages with Polish lap dancers who will in turn send the money back to their boyfriends in Poland.
13 December 2012, 12:39 PM
#85
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I wouldn't want to call somewhere that you've perhaps been born and bred a 'sh6thole' as it would be insulting. However for somebody who lives in Scunthorpe to call London that is just delusional.
All the negative things about London are present in Scunthorpe as well, the difference being that Scunthorpe may not actually have any of the redeeming features that London has. Just little things like jobs
And if it wasn't for those nice Indian people saving Corus you'd have even less
As for no go areas I'm sure there are parts of Scunny where you wouldn't want to walk around late at night on your own no matter what colour your skin.
All the negative things about London are present in Scunthorpe as well, the difference being that Scunthorpe may not actually have any of the redeeming features that London has. Just little things like jobs
And if it wasn't for those nice Indian people saving Corus you'd have even less
As for no go areas I'm sure there are parts of Scunny where you wouldn't want to walk around late at night on your own no matter what colour your skin.
13 December 2012, 12:39 PM
#86
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London is a sh*thole on the whole, everyone I know who has been there or even comes from there has said the same, the only diamond in the turd being the emirates stadium
I've moved around England for the last 12 years (being in the army) mainly, Oxford, London and the West Midlands and they are all dodgy sh*tholes, thank god I’m back home now where the only immigrants are the odd doctor or in the kebab house
I don't have a problem with immigration as long as it's a proper controlled system like Australia’s, point scoring through skills or money in the bank
There shouldn't be one asylum seeker in the UK, as to claim asylum you go to the nearest safe country, so unless they are from Ireland, France, Holland or the like then the UK is not the nearest safe country
The biggest problem by far though is that too many are allowed in at the same time and in the same area, this then in turn allows them to take over areas rather than integrate into society, creating no go areas for other people
I've moved around England for the last 12 years (being in the army) mainly, Oxford, London and the West Midlands and they are all dodgy sh*tholes, thank god I’m back home now where the only immigrants are the odd doctor or in the kebab house
I don't have a problem with immigration as long as it's a proper controlled system like Australia’s, point scoring through skills or money in the bank
There shouldn't be one asylum seeker in the UK, as to claim asylum you go to the nearest safe country, so unless they are from Ireland, France, Holland or the like then the UK is not the nearest safe country
The biggest problem by far though is that too many are allowed in at the same time and in the same area, this then in turn allows them to take over areas rather than integrate into society, creating no go areas for other people
13 December 2012, 01:37 PM
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I wouldn't want to call somewhere that you've perhaps been born and bred a 'sh6thole' as it would be insulting. However for somebody who lives in Scunthorpe to call London that is just delusional.
All the negative things about London are present in Scunthorpe as well, the difference being that Scunthorpe may not actually have any of the redeeming features that London has. Just little things like jobs
And if it wasn't for those nice Indian people saving Corus you'd have even less
As for no go areas I'm sure there are parts of Scunny where you wouldn't want to walk around late at night on your own no matter what colour your skin.
All the negative things about London are present in Scunthorpe as well, the difference being that Scunthorpe may not actually have any of the redeeming features that London has. Just little things like jobs
And if it wasn't for those nice Indian people saving Corus you'd have even less
As for no go areas I'm sure there are parts of Scunny where you wouldn't want to walk around late at night on your own no matter what colour your skin.
I'm pretty sure he said London was a shîthole, not me.
13 December 2012, 02:00 PM
#88
I have experience of a company that manufactures something we eat
In this case, not very many locals work on the shop floor, its mainly Polish (male & female)
Workforce of around 450 at peak times.
The locals get application forms, but never return them - I assume to satisfy a requirement to get dole money.
13 December 2012, 02:32 PM
#89
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