Scottish Independence
11 December 2012, 03:49 PM
#91
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did you watch the EC presidents interview? i did. he clearly states he is not talking about Scotland lol but in the bbc when they replay parts of interview they cut him off so you don't see the full interview and take it like hes talking about scotland.
its always been stated by the scottish gov that we would need to re-negotiate our terms if we got a yes vote but that's expected just like i would think england may need to aswell as the uk is a union between scotland and england. if 1 half leaves there is no uk.
So many questions that still need some answers but that will come in time.
Scottish gov have requested talks now so we all just need to wait and see what comes from that if the EU accept the talks.
But as one of the people on stv said. nothing happening or said will matter until the last few months running up to the vote.
its always been stated by the scottish gov that we would need to re-negotiate our terms if we got a yes vote but that's expected just like i would think england may need to aswell as the uk is a union between scotland and england. if 1 half leaves there is no uk.
So many questions that still need some answers but that will come in time.
Scottish gov have requested talks now so we all just need to wait and see what comes from that if the EU accept the talks.
But as one of the people on stv said. nothing happening or said will matter until the last few months running up to the vote.
11 December 2012, 03:51 PM
#92
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I can ABSOLUTELY understand the Scots not wanting to be ruled from Westinster.
Neither do I, and iI'm 200 miles south of Scotland, but when I see more and more being invested in, spent on, or given to, the South East and London, I feel sick.
I'd love some of the politicians to have to move up here, families and all, and live on what's available. Humberside: the most depressed area in the UK.
And The East Lothian question boiled my p*ss........to see the Scottish MP's voting for huge rises in student fees etc etc , while their own got it free...... if I could have pressed a button and killed the lot of them, I would have!
So yes, I can understand the Scots wanting independence.
Neither do I, and iI'm 200 miles south of Scotland, but when I see more and more being invested in, spent on, or given to, the South East and London, I feel sick.
I'd love some of the politicians to have to move up here, families and all, and live on what's available. Humberside: the most depressed area in the UK.
And The East Lothian question boiled my p*ss........to see the Scottish MP's voting for huge rises in student fees etc etc , while their own got it free...... if I could have pressed a button and killed the lot of them, I would have!
So yes, I can understand the Scots wanting independence.
I live in the South East, and we are sick to death of all the development being done in the area, and constantly wonder why all this new build isn't done in other area's of the country that are significantly less populated than the South East.
Also regarding the East Lothian question, me too, how the Scots, Welsh, etc Mp's are allowed to vote on issues that only effect England is just madness. Especially as they voted to increase our fees, whilst voting locally not to have them.
Between myself and my kids, we are now facing £54K of education fee's!!!!
11 December 2012, 04:04 PM
#93
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And this is not an anti English thing
Mate you've just been hoisted by your own petard. OF COURSE it's an anti English thing, stop kidding us, stop kidding yourself. This is what it's always been about, always will. Fine it's in your blood, you just want to vote for independence to be rid of the auld enemy, i've said it before to others such as Devildog and been told categorically i'm wrong. Well, on this evidence, i'm absolutely not.
11 December 2012, 04:06 PM
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And this is not an anti English thing
Mate you've just been hoisted by your own petard. OF COURSE it's an anti English thing, stop kidding us, stop kidding yourself. This is what it's always been about, always will. Fine it's in your blood, you just want to vote for independence to be rid of the auld enemy, i've said it before to others such as Devildog and been told categorically i'm wrong. Well, on this evidence, i'm absolutely not.
Mate you've just been hoisted by your own petard. OF COURSE it's an anti English thing, stop kidding us, stop kidding yourself. This is what it's always been about, always will. Fine it's in your blood, you just want to vote for independence to be rid of the auld enemy, i've said it before to others such as Devildog and been told categorically i'm wrong. Well, on this evidence, i'm absolutely not.
11 December 2012, 04:09 PM
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Aha, the biggest mistake of most Scots, assuming we hate you in the same way you hate us. Nope, wrong. By a huge majority we want you as part of the United Kingdom, including myself. Crazy, huh? 
11 December 2012, 04:17 PM
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And your mistake is thinking all us Scots want independence cause we hate the English.
11 December 2012, 04:33 PM
#100
Funnily I share your views, but from the opposite stand point.
I live in the South East, and we are sick to death of all the development being done in the area, and constantly wonder why all this new build isn't done in other area's of the country that are significantly less populated than the South East.
Also regarding the East Lothian question, me too, how the Scots, Welsh, etc Mp's are allowed to vote on issues that only effect England is just madness. Especially as they voted to increase our fees, whilst voting locally not to have them.
Between myself and my kids, we are now facing £54K of education fee's!!!!
I live in the South East, and we are sick to death of all the development being done in the area, and constantly wonder why all this new build isn't done in other area's of the country that are significantly less populated than the South East.
Also regarding the East Lothian question, me too, how the Scots, Welsh, etc Mp's are allowed to vote on issues that only effect England is just madness. Especially as they voted to increase our fees, whilst voting locally not to have them.
Between myself and my kids, we are now facing £54K of education fee's!!!!
As the majority of MP's are English any way, I think they are to blame.
11 December 2012, 04:34 PM
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read back what's been said. and stop trying to turn it into "scots hate the english"
its rather sad. and marks the end of this convo as that's what its degraded to.
its rather sad. and marks the end of this convo as that's what its degraded to.
11 December 2012, 05:12 PM
#102
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I'm confused.
On one hand you are advocating breaking our ties with the undemocratic and unrepresentative EU, yet the undemocratic (you call a party with 36% of the vote governing with a huge majority democratic????) and unresentative UK gets a thumbs up.
Why do you see these two entities so differently?
On one hand you are advocating breaking our ties with the undemocratic and unrepresentative EU, yet the undemocratic (you call a party with 36% of the vote governing with a huge majority democratic????) and unresentative UK gets a thumbs up.
Why do you see these two entities so differently?
I can assure you that I want us to remain a separate country as we have been for all those years in the past and able to run our own affairs without being dictated to by a federation of several foreign countries who have a very different outlook to ourselves.
The EEC was a sensible idea with respect to trading but a federation which would run our lives for us would be a big mistake as far as we are concerned. Its about time our celebrated leader started to keep the promises he made in order to get elected and instituted a referendum over our Eu membership and also produced a British bill of human rights instead of the rubbishy one we have to put up with at the moment!
What is your opinion of Eu government?
Les
11 December 2012, 05:28 PM
#103
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Also regarding the East Lothian question, me too, how the Scots, Welsh, etc Mp's are allowed to vote on issues that only effect England is just madness. Especially as they voted to increase our fees, whilst voting locally not to have them.
Between myself and my kids, we are now facing £54K of education fee's!!!!
I've explained this point before. MPs and MSPs are different.
11 December 2012, 05:30 PM
#104
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And this is not an anti English thing
Mate you've just been hoisted by your own petard. OF COURSE it's an anti English thing, stop kidding us, stop kidding yourself. This is what it's always been about, always will. Fine it's in your blood, you just want to vote for independence to be rid of the auld enemy, i've said it before to others such as Devildog and been told categorically i'm wrong. Well, on this evidence, i'm absolutely not.
Mate you've just been hoisted by your own petard. OF COURSE it's an anti English thing, stop kidding us, stop kidding yourself. This is what it's always been about, always will. Fine it's in your blood, you just want to vote for independence to be rid of the auld enemy, i've said it before to others such as Devildog and been told categorically i'm wrong. Well, on this evidence, i'm absolutely not.
Tel
You've got a massive chip on your shoulder about this. Its not, and never has been, an anti English thing. Until you start to accept this there is no point even getting involved in this discussion with you
11 December 2012, 05:46 PM
#105
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Have you forgotten that we have a government made up of Conservatives and Liberals? What was your heroes share of the vote by the way?
I can assure you that I want us to remain a separate country as we have been for all those years in the past and able to run our own affairs without being dictated to by a federation of several foreign countries who have a very different outlook to ourselves.
The EEC was a sensible idea with respect to trading but a federation which would run our lives for us would be a big mistake as far as we are concerned. Its about time our celebrated leader started to keep the promises he made in order to get elected and instituted a referendum over our Eu membership and also produced a British bill of human rights instead of the rubbishy one we have to put up with at the moment!
What is your opinion of Eu government?
Les
I can assure you that I want us to remain a separate country as we have been for all those years in the past and able to run our own affairs without being dictated to by a federation of several foreign countries who have a very different outlook to ourselves.
The EEC was a sensible idea with respect to trading but a federation which would run our lives for us would be a big mistake as far as we are concerned. Its about time our celebrated leader started to keep the promises he made in order to get elected and instituted a referendum over our Eu membership and also produced a British bill of human rights instead of the rubbishy one we have to put up with at the moment!
What is your opinion of Eu government?
Les
Last edited by Martin2005; 11 December 2012 at 05:48 PM.
11 December 2012, 07:47 PM
#106
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ca,sedin your entitled to your point fsir enough, and mine differs.
i dont see independance as being beneficial for scotland , and cant see how it evr could be - its not voting because i want another country ruling mt, ts because i genuinely beleive we would be worse of, and esp so at the hands of A.S.
patriotism, history, tradition dont even enter my thoughts when deciding a political party, but more corruption, lying, greed. then the good mps who struggle against the grain.
ive worked in areas where direct political decisions effect major buisnessess and quite frankly its fcking sickening to see how certain people behave and abuse there power.
i dont see independance as being beneficial for scotland , and cant see how it evr could be - its not voting because i want another country ruling mt, ts because i genuinely beleive we would be worse of, and esp so at the hands of A.S.
patriotism, history, tradition dont even enter my thoughts when deciding a political party, but more corruption, lying, greed. then the good mps who struggle against the grain.
ive worked in areas where direct political decisions effect major buisnessess and quite frankly its fcking sickening to see how certain people behave and abuse there power.
11 December 2012, 07:59 PM
#108
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ca,sedin your entitled to your point fsir enough, and mine differs.
i dont see independance as being beneficial for scotland , and cant see how it evr could be - its not voting because i want another country ruling mt, ts because i genuinely beleive we would be worse of, and esp so at the hands of A.S.
patriotism, history, tradition dont even enter my thoughts when deciding a political party, but more corruption, lying, greed. then the good mps who struggle against the grain.
ive worked in areas where direct political decisions effect major buisnessess and quite frankly its fcking sickening to see how certain people behave and abuse there power.
i dont see independance as being beneficial for scotland , and cant see how it evr could be - its not voting because i want another country ruling mt, ts because i genuinely beleive we would be worse of, and esp so at the hands of A.S.
patriotism, history, tradition dont even enter my thoughts when deciding a political party, but more corruption, lying, greed. then the good mps who struggle against the grain.
ive worked in areas where direct political decisions effect major buisnessess and quite frankly its fcking sickening to see how certain people behave and abuse there power.
What makes you think snp will be in control after an independence yes vote? you do realise new party's will most likely form and we will vote one of them in that seems the lesser of the evils.
Getting independence is the first step to making scotland great. and honestly i hope you see this by the time the vote arrives. i would suggest to keep an open mind in the run up to the vote.
and have you been reading what the torys in westminster have in mind for scotland if there is a no result? from what one of the torys said an excuse to cut our money and other cuts.
considering we give Westminster more than we get back as it is that cannot be a good thing. we will end up in the state england is in if not even worse! so a yes vote is looking like the only option for scotlands best interests..
11 December 2012, 08:22 PM
#109
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What makes you think snp will be in control after an independence yes vote? you do realise new party's will most likely form and we will vote one of them in that seems the lesser of the evils.
Getting independence is the first step to making scotland great. and honestly i hope you see this by the time the vote arrives. i would suggest to keep an open mind in the run up to the vote.
and have you been reading what the torys in westminster have in mind for scotland if there is a no result? from what one of the torys said an excuse to cut our money and other cuts.
considering we give Westminster more than we get back as it is that cannot be a good thing. we will end up in the state england is in if not even worse! so a yes vote is looking like the only option for scotlands best interests..
Getting independence is the first step to making scotland great. and honestly i hope you see this by the time the vote arrives. i would suggest to keep an open mind in the run up to the vote.
and have you been reading what the torys in westminster have in mind for scotland if there is a no result? from what one of the torys said an excuse to cut our money and other cuts.
considering we give Westminster more than we get back as it is that cannot be a good thing. we will end up in the state england is in if not even worse! so a yes vote is looking like the only option for scotlands best interests..
and that staement about a tory saying xyz, isnt a fact either its gossip - hand on heart do you think if we vote no to independance that westminister will then create some kind of vengance tax??
do you think scotland has enough industry, natural resources ect to keep it afloat - not even considering E.U rules we may or may not have to adhere to?
have you been to port glasgow? greenock, inner glasgow areas, wheres the regeneration there going to come from, wheres the big money investment going to come from to employ/train the locals? aberdeen, off shore?
i dont have those answers, not that i think westminister do, but im more fearful of an independant scottish leader trying to make his mark, and causing a colosall fck up that costs everyone but him/her!!
11 December 2012, 08:32 PM
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In fact, Scotland has 8.4 per cent of the UK population but gives London 9.6 per cent of its taxes. That’s £1000 for every household."
she did in fact say it.. does that not make you concerned in the least little bit?
if she thinks that then i bet you a lot of her pals think that too..
scotland is better off than you give it credit for. we have a higher gdp than the rest of the uk they need us more than we need them.
do you want to lose the free services we enjoy in scotland now? cause we will lose those for sure if we vote no once Westminster keep hitting us with cuts.
11 December 2012, 08:54 PM
#112
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"The Tory MP (PRITI PATEL) said the 2014 referendum offered a chance to reduce the block grant for Scotland if we vote no.
In fact, Scotland has 8.4 per cent of the UK population but gives London 9.6 per cent of its taxes. That’s £1000 for every household."
she did in fact say it.. does that not make you concerned in the least little bit?
if she thinks that then i bet you a lot of her pals think that too..
scotland is better off than you give it credit for. we have a higher gdp than the rest of the uk they need us more than we need them.
do you want to lose the free services we enjoy in scotland now? cause we will lose those for sure if we vote no once Westminster keep hitting us with cuts.
In fact, Scotland has 8.4 per cent of the UK population but gives London 9.6 per cent of its taxes. That’s £1000 for every household."
she did in fact say it.. does that not make you concerned in the least little bit?
if she thinks that then i bet you a lot of her pals think that too..
scotland is better off than you give it credit for. we have a higher gdp than the rest of the uk they need us more than we need them.
do you want to lose the free services we enjoy in scotland now? cause we will lose those for sure if we vote no once Westminster keep hitting us with cuts.
is that enough for longevity?
how will we loose for sure?? any benefits? how do you know that, and this 1 mps opinion , is just that, 1 opinion - its not agiven. thats the beauty of democracy - (in theory) one person sveiw doesnt reign supreme.
do you think there would be any kind of backlash were her visions to be converted to truth?
11 December 2012, 09:13 PM
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11 December 2012, 10:07 PM
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camsedin,
do you think scotland has enough industry, natural resources, trades ect to keep it afloat fully independantly for the foreseeable future??
do you think scotland has enough industry, natural resources, trades ect to keep it afloat fully independantly for the foreseeable future??
12 December 2012, 12:13 AM
#115
You should ask people on same question when Czech and Slovakia split on two separate countries,at least Scotland will have Referendum,Czech and Slovakia don't have at this time this option,politicians just done this...
If is good for Slovakian people,in many people view yes has been worth,but in my view has been wrong decision and this has been driven mainly one political party and this party get from this biggest profit(political and financial)
This referendum reminds/recalls me Czech-Slovakia separation
Jura
12 December 2012, 12:27 AM
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our military is pretty much getting buggered anyway so not much to split lol
but no we would not keep the nukes. you would be given them as its stated before we don't want them if a yes vote.
But this would mean you guys would need to build somewhere to house them. as don't think there is anywhere in england that can maintain them just now?
Also there are lots of questions that hopefully will get answered on the run up to the vote. hopefully if the no campaign stop flinging mud and lies and instead get a proper debate going everything would be clearer lol
but no we would not keep the nukes. you would be given them as its stated before we don't want them if a yes vote.
But this would mean you guys would need to build somewhere to house them. as don't think there is anywhere in england that can maintain them just now?
Also there are lots of questions that hopefully will get answered on the run up to the vote. hopefully if the no campaign stop flinging mud and lies and instead get a proper debate going everything would be clearer lol
The upside of this all would be that thered never be another Labour government, because Scotland is massively over represented at Westminster.
Of course, this was one of the sweetners for the Scottish when the two countries were bound together (when their king took our throne, as most nationalists seem to forget, if they ever knew).
Im half Scottish and nationalist f*ckwittery makes me see red.
12 December 2012, 08:45 AM
#117
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Get rid of whinging anti-UK scots. Result.
Watch reality dawn as Scotland has to fund its own way for a change. Result.
See the UK government pull back spending to south of the border. Result.
Eliminate the 41 Labour, 11 Lib Dem and 6 SNP MPs from Westminster. Result.
You can have Gordon for free.
If we all had a vote (which we should have had when they created the Scottish Parliament - and created the mid lothian issue) I would vote to wave them goodbye at the first oppurtunity.
Watch reality dawn as Scotland has to fund its own way for a change. Result.
See the UK government pull back spending to south of the border. Result.
Eliminate the 41 Labour, 11 Lib Dem and 6 SNP MPs from Westminster. Result.
You can have Gordon for free.
If we all had a vote (which we should have had when they created the Scottish Parliament - and created the mid lothian issue) I would vote to wave them goodbye at the first oppurtunity.
12 December 2012, 11:13 AM
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12 December 2012, 11:25 AM
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I think the emperor Hadrian had the right idea, as Governor Aulus Paulinus from Chelmsford 123 once observed...
"Oh mighty Hadrian, I have just spent the most miserable four weeks of my life inspecting our borders with Caledonia. It seems you have instructed our engineers to build a long stretch of stonework right across the country. Now if I didn't know better, I'd say it was a wall. Is the idea to continue the wall all the way around Caledonia, then put a roof on it, thereby making it the biggest indoor toilet in the Empire?"
"Oh mighty Hadrian, I have just spent the most miserable four weeks of my life inspecting our borders with Caledonia. It seems you have instructed our engineers to build a long stretch of stonework right across the country. Now if I didn't know better, I'd say it was a wall. Is the idea to continue the wall all the way around Caledonia, then put a roof on it, thereby making it the biggest indoor toilet in the Empire?"