Camsedin

lol this just shows what ive been saying. you have been fed total bs and from the looks of it you believe it..
do some research and find the answers mate.

its been reported by proper experts (not connected to any party) we would be better of than england.
so if scotlands buggered if we get independence does that mean england will be too? lol

i will never convince you if you wont do the research yourself mate but honestly do some if you really want to find out the truth.
1 problem is the positive things for independence never get reported in the mainstream media but a lot of bs does.

i opened my evening news today and there is anti-indy story in that, which has been proven incorrect yet it is still printed.. its just mad how much lies are spread about.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

So how, exactly, are YOU differentiating between lies....and the truth....besides if it is YOUR version, it's the truth?

TelBoy

Then vote for independence and good luck. You clearly have your mind made up.

And when it doesn't quite work out as you hoped, don't say you weren't told.

Brighter minds than mine know that independence will be potentially ruinous for Scotland. Keep telling us we're only reading BS all you want, but that won't make it true.

Camsedin

Heres one. (and is related to this thread too)

News says ec president sent a letter saying scotland would need to re-apply if they get independence..

the ec president turns around and says that is incorrect and he infact has never sent a letter .

clearly that's a lie? or maybe the ec president is lieing ? lol

that's just many lies that have been told in mainstream media. or twisted to look negative.

Camsedin

I will be voting yes mate and 99% of scots i know or spoke to will be as well. but when it does work out.. don't say i never told ya so
until the day we will never know what way its going to go.

one thing i do know tho.. if it turns out a NO vote.. scotland is buggered haha as english mps are already calling for harsher cuts due to us wanting indy.

Chip

Well if as you state they are proper experts then you must be right then.

SirFozzalot

To save us trawling the net can't you at least give us a couple of examples why Scotland and more importantly the Scottish people would be better off? You've done the research, give us a cut down brief of the benefits. Especially as there is apparently so much BS out there (only the "anti-independant" stuff though and not the "pro" stuff I gather from your posts )

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

And answer the question regarding the "East Lothian" situation.

The jock regiments are now awash with F&C soldiers as they cannot recruit and make very little sense in the wider debate anyway.

Salmond's ego will destroy a proud nation.

Camsedin

i wont convince you if you don't read and follow the indy stuff yourself mate.

Anyway this thread has run its course i think
If you are interested about it Just read up more on it from lots of sources not just the mainstream places and make your own mind up yes or no and not listen to others.

But if you are scottish vote yes haha

jef

iTrader: (13)

is this scot for real

how about you answer the question please explain EXACTLY how scots would be better of indepenadant - EXACTLY please, doing so may well open my eyes to the benefits that at the moment elude me. being an indepant scotlan doestn quaify as a beneficial reason if its not backed up by hard data.

were not entirley ruled by westminsiter - but ona leash so to speak, but with so many government fck ups the scottish governments have been involved in id say these fcking idiots that claim to represent us seem to be falling over ther feet to fck things up on a monumental levle - the parliment building for one, the tram fiasco -such mega, collossal, unimaginable, pointlessly humoungous, mosnterous amounts of public money, literally spunked on F*CK ALL!! Whule certain cheif execs walk away , pockets golden lined, pensioned up the eyeballs and not looking back!.
rest assured in ten -fifteen years from now, the 2 fish will be tucked up in bed knowing there families will be financially sound for generations to come, despite what mess they leave us in.
we cant predict how good or bad a mess they may leave but as long as they have nothing but pride to loose then they know theyll be ok.

make policies backed by the people, and for the benfit of the people. making any ridiculous ideas, or election time vote winning pleges they try to implment or justify as in the best interest for all - that ultimately fail (excetional circumstances permitting) should see the offending bullsh*tter being asset stripped, and jailed for lying to get power, and even longer for massivley fcking up projects that cost everyone but them huge amounts of money.

btw this isnt just for those north of the border, same applies for any expense swindliders, people setting up deals to benfit friends of family over public interest or any other activities which are a result of greed or those with illusions of grandure - whcih end up costing everyone should be asset stripped and put in jail, for crimes against society/theft/ manipulation/deceipt ect ect ect.

not that i feel much about anything lol

SirFozzalot

The fact you can't give me one single reason why the Scottish people would be better off makes me rather sceptical that there really are any obvious benefits.

Maybe it really is just an anti-English thing.

jef

iTrader: (13)

countryman, "for the main reason we will be in control of our own country how can anyone see a bad point to that?"

is that your feable attempt at convincing scots to vote indepandance, with that massive lsit ofexamples youve provided us with??

then stating its for us to research ourselves - basically you cant be fcked even helping us fellow countrymen try to understand the entirety and make an educated decision.

furthemore you apply "smileies/winkies" as if your privvy to secret information no-one else is thus putting you in what id imagine wouldbe your dream posisiton of power - yet not sharing with us, and you want us to support you?? lol

i dont know you but you come across a pompous arrogant pr8ck tbh mate, if you are indeed invovlved in politics it wouldnt surprise me and ill be making sure i choose ANY other party than the one you may or may not be affiliated with.

this thread has far from ran its course, but your credibility has im afraid my friend,

Martin2005

Keeping the pound and the monarch is a weird sort of independence though isn't it?

Camsedin

i could be wrong but isn't the monarch also Canada's monarch tho and they are not part of the uk?

tbh no matter what i say ill be seen as anti english for some reason most of the english think independence is about that.

just look at jeff.. he took offence to smiley faces lol
the smileys where so people would not take it so serious
and jeff i like how you resort to name calling because i want independence..
yet you don't see me calling you names because you want to be ruled by another country.


Just on a final thought tho.. norway has very similar resources to scotland and population. yet they are one of the worlds wealthiest country's.. and they count on there oil a lot more than scotland would.

so norway is pretty much proof that an independent scotland could work.

ps: heres questions and answers by people that have done better research than i ever could.
http://www.yesscotland.net/questions

ScoobyWon't

Norway and Scotland? I can think of a difference. Norwegian alcohol laws are quite strict. Alcohol is generally very expensive, it is only sold at certain times, and stronger alcohols such as spirits and even wine are sold only through special alcohol outlets (Vinmonopolet).

Geezer

Or perhaps you aren't intelligent enough to understand the arguments.......

Politicians aside, who are transient and sometimes self serving, the government machinery of Westminster is vastly more experienced than their Scottish counterparts.

Besides, what does it matter where the rule comes from, this is the UK, you are a UK citizen, you have to be ruled from somewhere. This notion of separate Wales, Scotland, Ulster is very devisive and serves no good purpose.

You continually state you are not anti-English, and you may genuinely believe you are not, but Scottish independence is born out of a long history of conflict and resentment. Remember, you signed your independence away for money, so you only have yourselves to blame anyway.


Lots of people believe things that are wrong, what's your point?

I work closely with lots of Scottish people, a scant minority want this, but I fear what will happen is that voter apathy will be on Salmond's side. It happened to us in Wales, the 'unionists' didn't turn out but all the rabid separatists did, so we ened u pwith some half cocked assembly that no one really wanted.

The fact that they have done some good things like free prescritions is only because of the money we receive from England!

Wait until all your free further education goes etc. You simply don't have enough population for Salmond's sums to add up. That is not media BS, that is simply economics.

Geezer

Camsedin

mate we give 9.6% and get back 9.3% how is that england giving "us" money?
cmon now why does all the anti-independence people keep shouting the same stuff even tho a lot of it already has been proven wrong?

Scotland has a higher GDP than the rest of the uk how is that "us" getting handouts?

Scotland pays £1000 more per head than the rest of the uk.

i may be wrong on some of my points but ill happily hold my hand up if i am proven wrong on something.. but for some reason every anti-independence person seems to never change there mind even after they have been proven wrong?

I honestly believe its 50/50 between a yes and a no. in whos favour that will go come 2014 after all the muds been flung and many lies and truths have been told.
none of us will know until the vote day.

am done on this as ive said ill never convince anyone that's upto there self to try work out what way they want to vote and i only go round in circles

just read the questions and answers link i posted above if you want the positive sides of independence.

JTaylor

Good to see you keeping the language alive despite your reservations, Geezer.

Leslie

It would be a big mistake for the Union to break up. It would weaken this country as well as Scotland which stands to lose seriously if they decice to go independent.

This country exists as a union as it has for so many years and that is part of its present strength and influence in the world.

Les

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

The only reason I'd vote for the Scots to go is to rid England of the East Lothian question.

It really sickened me under Labour.

yellowvanman

Fully Agree

yellowvanman

I had a quick look through the linked site.

I couldn't see any mention of taking on a pro rata amount of the the UK national debt.

Also I wonder if in the industry figures, this includes the Uk spend on Military and boat building? Would this still continue if Scotland was separate?

I certainly don't know all the facts, but i'm pretty certain that both sides will be spinning and distorting the facts to suit their agenda.

Martin2005

[QUOTE]But does have it's own central bank

Martin2005

Les I thought you were opposed to anti-democratic and unrepresentative political unions?

Geezer

English is an evolving lanuage Tel

Or, I should sometimes type a bit slower!

Geezer

TelBoy

Tel?

Geezer, go and explain to Martin about the its/it's thing, it's central bank i ask you

Leslie

Yes of course.

Les

jef

iTrader: (13)

in the context of your posting manner and apparant attitude, i dont take your smilies as lightheartening the subject - maybe i got that wrong??

i just wanted to see what YOUR exact points were that would benefit the country as a whole, not read links written by others. i wanted to read your interprtation of these benfits, vrs the cons - as i beleivie you truly beleive the pros far outweigh the cons.
apologies if you think im name calling, im just calling you out to show your opinions and how/why i should listen and respond positively to them?

would that be possible?

Martin2005

The UK?

hodgy0_2

Hasn't he made one point Fairly clear, the belief that scotland contributes more to the union than it gets back