War on Britain's roads documentary.
05 December 2012, 10:26 PM
#31
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05 December 2012, 10:27 PM
#32
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I think the biggest part of the problem is as mentioned in that documentary. Cyclist's shud be required to display a rear plate if they are to ride on the road so they can be held more accountable for there actions! I myself think that the fact they dont pay road tax can get drivers annoyed due to the cost of driving nowadays. Bad driving doesnt always mean its a bad driver i think its more a state of mind and due to the modern stress of life we all seem to rush around barging people out of the way and generaly caring less about other people than our cars we drive. Although in the current drive for greener cleaner travel taxing cyclists would be wrong.
Whatever the outcome this could be a long haul till a solution is found
Whatever the outcome this could be a long haul till a solution is found
05 December 2012, 10:28 PM
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05 December 2012, 10:33 PM
#38
So having just watched a programme where someone got out of a car and thumped a cyclist and was subsequently found guilty of assault you continue to advocate that sort of behaviour. Interesting...
05 December 2012, 10:33 PM
#39
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The rider right at the end of the program who nearly managed to get crushed between a bus and pickup was a lucky chap, just hope they learnt from it.
05 December 2012, 10:34 PM
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What about kids riding their bikes in the street in which they live, plates for them too?
Road tax is emissions based therefore no emissions equals no tax as with some cars.
There are bad cyclists and bad drivers and I think this will always be the case no matter what rules and training might be introduced.
[QUOTE=Pedroturbo;10895467]I think the biggest part of the problem is as mentioned in that documentary. Cyclist's shud be required to display a rear plate if they are to ride on the road so they can be held more accountable for there actions! I myself think that the fact they dont pay road tax can get drivers annoyed due to the cost of driving nowadays. Bad driving doesnt always mean its a bad driver i think its more a state of mind and due to the modern stress of life we all seem to rush around barging people out of the way and generaly caring less about other people than our cars we drive. Although in the current drive for greener cleaner travel taxing cyclists would be wrong.
Whatever the outcome this could be a long haul till a solution is found[/QUOTE
Road tax is emissions based therefore no emissions equals no tax as with some cars.
There are bad cyclists and bad drivers and I think this will always be the case no matter what rules and training might be introduced.
[QUOTE=Pedroturbo;10895467]I think the biggest part of the problem is as mentioned in that documentary. Cyclist's shud be required to display a rear plate if they are to ride on the road so they can be held more accountable for there actions! I myself think that the fact they dont pay road tax can get drivers annoyed due to the cost of driving nowadays. Bad driving doesnt always mean its a bad driver i think its more a state of mind and due to the modern stress of life we all seem to rush around barging people out of the way and generaly caring less about other people than our cars we drive. Although in the current drive for greener cleaner travel taxing cyclists would be wrong.
Whatever the outcome this could be a long haul till a solution is found[/QUOTE
05 December 2012, 10:37 PM
#41
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[quote=nik52wrx;10895481]What about kids riding their bikes in the street in which they live, plates for them too?
Road tax is emissions based therefore no emissions equals no tax as with some cars.
There are bad cyclists and bad drivers and I think this will always be the case no matter what rules and training might be introduced. quote]
clearly my plan is flawed
Road tax is emissions based therefore no emissions equals no tax as with some cars.
There are bad cyclists and bad drivers and I think this will always be the case no matter what rules and training might be introduced. quote]
clearly my plan is flawed
05 December 2012, 10:55 PM
#42
Yeah, being killed or knocked down can be a really frustrating.
Don't be an idiot and talk about paying for the road. I'd suggest most of them already own a car anyway. Being treated the same as motorbikes is dumb too, they don't have engines. Being treated the same as horses is a better example. People take care around horses.
Don't be an idiot and talk about paying for the road. I'd suggest most of them already own a car anyway. Being treated the same as motorbikes is dumb too, they don't have engines. Being treated the same as horses is a better example. People take care around horses.
I don't see a problem where push bikes have to be registered with a registration plate and be linked to their drivers licence (or a cycle licence if they are not car owners) to use the road, but no road tax. I think this would reduce the recklessness of some riders I see in London if riders can be traced and their licence be subject to points for running red lights or being reckless leading to a ban. You want equal rights on the road then you've got to expect to be subject to the same rules as with all other road users.
05 December 2012, 10:56 PM
#43
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Rather than waste my time (again) getting embroiled in the pointless debate that will no doubt ensue here 
as in every other Scoobynet cycling thread over the last 10 years...
I'd rather just say RIP Andy, almost a year gone by Sir and the shock of the moment I read the tragic news here and linked it to what I'd just read on the local news, will live with me
Everyone stay safe out there and FFS loose the egos when out on the roads...and that goes for cyclists and drivers, we can all get on
as in every other Scoobynet cycling thread over the last 10 years...I'd rather just say RIP Andy, almost a year gone by Sir and the shock of the moment I read the tragic news here and linked it to what I'd just read on the local news, will live with me
Everyone stay safe out there and FFS loose the egos when out on the roads...and that goes for cyclists and drivers, we can all get on
05 December 2012, 11:34 PM
#45
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Hi folks, I expected some debate on this program so I thought I'd pop back in.
The program was not made by the BBC but by independent company that trawled through lots of bike forums asking for footage. For some odd reason they didn't want to use mine that shows co-operation, respect, a bit of fun and how well most people get on when sharing the roads. Odd that.
The footage of the couriers is blatent mis-representation as it was taken from a commercial film. It was a much like normal bike riding as a James Bond car chase scene is to normal motoring. It's called Alley Cat racing and that footage was all paid for, something the program makers completely forgot to mention.
I'll try and respond to each point made:
Riding two abreast is legal and riders in a bunch are easier and quicker to get past as the line of riders is much shorter (saying that, all riders should act with consideration to other road users.
The old "road tax / cyclists don't pay for roads" meme. It's quite simple. There is no road tax. There has been no road tax for 75 years now. Road Tax does not exist. Cyclists pay for the roads, just because AT THAT MOMENT a person happens to be riding a bike does not mean that they have never paid taxes - it's the general pot that pays for roads; that and Council Tax. Both of which the VAST majority of people pay into. The problem with the whole "I pay road tax, cyclists don't. So I have a right to use the road" is fundamentally flawed - low emmission vehicles pay no "road tax" but cause more wear and tear, emergency vehicle pay no "road tax" good luck telling them they can't use the road. You can also say that vehicles that pay more "road tax" have more right than those that pay less.... completely flawed. That paper disk in the corner of your windscreen has as much to do with road maintenance as the VAT on the potatoes you bought.
Licences? Okay, well I've covered this before but let me clarify.
Dictionary definition of a licence: permission to do something, or a document showing that you have permission
You do not need a licence to use the roads. No one does, as a pedestrian, or a horse rider, or a cyclist - all of which we can all be; we do not need permission to use the Public Highway.
However, you DO need permission to use a motor vehicle, and you have to ASK permission and prove you are competent to use something that accounts for 1000's of deaths every year. (go look up how many people die because of cyclists... less than 1 per year on average)
The thing is, they are not the motorists roads... they are the publics. (it's not the same thing if you think about it) People should act like they are guests in someone's house when they are driving on the roads. Your permission can be revoked, you really have no right to use a motor vehicle on them, so shouting at the cyclist to use the cycle paths is non-sequitur - the roads ARE the cycle paths.
Licence plates - well all I will say is: yep clearly all cars having licence plates has kept the roads crime free for years now. You can go down the route of "he said / she said" but the point made above was a very good one: there are idiots in the world, and their method of transport does not change the fact that they are idiots.
It's not that there should be more laws, or extra checks. It's that there should be better enforcement. I've lost count of the number of times I see people texting / phoning / doing their fecking make-up while driving - the link between actions and consequences is broken at the moment, and it will only be fixed if there is better enforcement for all road users.
Hi-viz? Victim blaming. You are required by law to take care while driving, this means looking properly at junctions, not just glancing and then blaming the innocent victim because you didn't look properly. Saying that though, anything that helps IS a good idea but not enforced - you are 'fixing' the wrong problem.
Lights - there is a law which makes lights at night compulsory and I wish to God people would use better lights while on bikes.
Anyway - back to that embarrassment of a program: There is no war, there is no "us and them" tribal mentality with the vast majority of road users. I have positive encounters with people every day - I really enjoy the safe ride into work (although today was a bit hairy with the ice... bloody back wheel was spinning when I was cycling up hill. Trust me that is NOT a good feeling!)
That program does nothing but fan a flame and should never have been broadcast.
The program was not made by the BBC but by independent company that trawled through lots of bike forums asking for footage. For some odd reason they didn't want to use mine that shows co-operation, respect, a bit of fun and how well most people get on when sharing the roads. Odd that.
The footage of the couriers is blatent mis-representation as it was taken from a commercial film. It was a much like normal bike riding as a James Bond car chase scene is to normal motoring. It's called Alley Cat racing and that footage was all paid for, something the program makers completely forgot to mention.
I'll try and respond to each point made:
Riding two abreast is legal and riders in a bunch are easier and quicker to get past as the line of riders is much shorter (saying that, all riders should act with consideration to other road users.
The old "road tax / cyclists don't pay for roads" meme. It's quite simple. There is no road tax. There has been no road tax for 75 years now. Road Tax does not exist. Cyclists pay for the roads, just because AT THAT MOMENT a person happens to be riding a bike does not mean that they have never paid taxes - it's the general pot that pays for roads; that and Council Tax. Both of which the VAST majority of people pay into. The problem with the whole "I pay road tax, cyclists don't. So I have a right to use the road" is fundamentally flawed - low emmission vehicles pay no "road tax" but cause more wear and tear, emergency vehicle pay no "road tax" good luck telling them they can't use the road. You can also say that vehicles that pay more "road tax" have more right than those that pay less.... completely flawed. That paper disk in the corner of your windscreen has as much to do with road maintenance as the VAT on the potatoes you bought.
Licences? Okay, well I've covered this before but let me clarify.
Dictionary definition of a licence: permission to do something, or a document showing that you have permission
You do not need a licence to use the roads. No one does, as a pedestrian, or a horse rider, or a cyclist - all of which we can all be; we do not need permission to use the Public Highway.
However, you DO need permission to use a motor vehicle, and you have to ASK permission and prove you are competent to use something that accounts for 1000's of deaths every year. (go look up how many people die because of cyclists... less than 1 per year on average)
The thing is, they are not the motorists roads... they are the publics. (it's not the same thing if you think about it) People should act like they are guests in someone's house when they are driving on the roads. Your permission can be revoked, you really have no right to use a motor vehicle on them, so shouting at the cyclist to use the cycle paths is non-sequitur - the roads ARE the cycle paths.
Licence plates - well all I will say is: yep clearly all cars having licence plates has kept the roads crime free for years now. You can go down the route of "he said / she said" but the point made above was a very good one: there are idiots in the world, and their method of transport does not change the fact that they are idiots.
It's not that there should be more laws, or extra checks. It's that there should be better enforcement. I've lost count of the number of times I see people texting / phoning / doing their fecking make-up while driving - the link between actions and consequences is broken at the moment, and it will only be fixed if there is better enforcement for all road users.
Hi-viz? Victim blaming. You are required by law to take care while driving, this means looking properly at junctions, not just glancing and then blaming the innocent victim because you didn't look properly. Saying that though, anything that helps IS a good idea but not enforced - you are 'fixing' the wrong problem.
Lights - there is a law which makes lights at night compulsory and I wish to God people would use better lights while on bikes.
Anyway - back to that embarrassment of a program: There is no war, there is no "us and them" tribal mentality with the vast majority of road users. I have positive encounters with people every day - I really enjoy the safe ride into work (although today was a bit hairy with the ice... bloody back wheel was spinning when I was cycling up hill. Trust me that is NOT a good feeling!)
That program does nothing but fan a flame and should never have been broadcast.
06 December 2012, 06:08 AM
#46
After watching it I do feel as a driver you need more training on what to look out for on the roads. I was told about people between car but never cyclists.
I also feel as a cyclist that then you buy a bike you should be supplied with T&c's, must have lights (even day lights) bell & protective clothing. That you adhear to
When that copper asked the guy about using a whistle. Lol what a response. Did they ever find the white tanker driver?
Off to get a helmet to improve my chances
I also feel as a cyclist that then you buy a bike you should be supplied with T&c's, must have lights (even day lights) bell & protective clothing. That you adhear to
When that copper asked the guy about using a whistle. Lol what a response. Did they ever find the white tanker driver?
Off to get a helmet to improve my chances
06 December 2012, 09:50 AM
#47
I never saw the program and i don't think it's necessary, i get the general idea from the countless threads we have had on here.
Haters gona hate, and it really is as simple as that, some people live for confrontation, and are just angry at the world and everything in it, for what ever reasons.
Pick any subject and watch them fizz and pop, there have been enough examples of this type of person on here over the years, there chosen method of transport is immaterial.
People on both sides just need to have a little more respect for one another, this whole situation between cars and bikes is just an example of the world we live in, everyone wrapped up in their own little kingdom where their opinion is king.
Live and let live i say, life is too short to be live in anger.
Haters gona hate, and it really is as simple as that, some people live for confrontation, and are just angry at the world and everything in it, for what ever reasons.
Pick any subject and watch them fizz and pop, there have been enough examples of this type of person on here over the years, there chosen method of transport is immaterial.
People on both sides just need to have a little more respect for one another, this whole situation between cars and bikes is just an example of the world we live in, everyone wrapped up in their own little kingdom where their opinion is king.
Live and let live i say, life is too short to be live in anger.
06 December 2012, 10:15 AM
#48
Scooby Regular
I never saw the program and i don't think it's necessary, i get the general idea from the countless threads we have had on here.
Haters gona hate, and it really is as simple as that, some people live for confrontation, and are just angry at the world and everything in it, for what ever reasons.
Pick any subject and watch them fizz and pop, there have been enough examples of this type of person on here over the years, there chosen method of transport is immaterial.
People on both sides just need to have a little more respect for one another, this whole situation between cars and bikes is just an example of the world we live in, everyone wrapped up in their own little kingdom where their opinion is king.
Live and let live i say, life is too short to be live in anger.
Haters gona hate, and it really is as simple as that, some people live for confrontation, and are just angry at the world and everything in it, for what ever reasons.
Pick any subject and watch them fizz and pop, there have been enough examples of this type of person on here over the years, there chosen method of transport is immaterial.
People on both sides just need to have a little more respect for one another, this whole situation between cars and bikes is just an example of the world we live in, everyone wrapped up in their own little kingdom where their opinion is king.
Live and let live i say, life is too short to be live in anger.
06 December 2012, 10:46 PM
#49
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Wasn't going to watch this as thought it would be a load of tabloid style nonsense, but having read this thread I watched it on iPlayer this evening.
I actually thought it was a fairly well balanced programme that presented a good many different views about cyclists on the UK roads from all sides, if you like.
The initial clip of the taxi driver and cyclegaz had me worried as having watched that guy's YouTube videos he goes looking for trouble and finds it when it isn't really there as he did with that taxi, but after that the programme settled down nicely.
The woman who used her daughter's death to improve the safety of cement trucks was the best part of the programme and I wish they'd focused more on her, she is a true illustration of how to turn a personal tragedy into something positive and Cemex are to be applauded for listening.
Quote of the programme was 'If they had numberplates they wouldn't do that would they' which is exactly how I feel ... cyclists who want to behave like idiots are far more likely to get away with it than the rest of us so they do!
That said the programme did indeed confirm my original thoughts too... some cyclists are idiots, some vehicle drivers are idiots... and sadly that won't change anytime soon!
I actually thought it was a fairly well balanced programme that presented a good many different views about cyclists on the UK roads from all sides, if you like.
The initial clip of the taxi driver and cyclegaz had me worried as having watched that guy's YouTube videos he goes looking for trouble and finds it when it isn't really there as he did with that taxi, but after that the programme settled down nicely.
The woman who used her daughter's death to improve the safety of cement trucks was the best part of the programme and I wish they'd focused more on her, she is a true illustration of how to turn a personal tragedy into something positive and Cemex are to be applauded for listening.
Quote of the programme was 'If they had numberplates they wouldn't do that would they' which is exactly how I feel ... cyclists who want to behave like idiots are far more likely to get away with it than the rest of us so they do!
That said the programme did indeed confirm my original thoughts too... some cyclists are idiots, some vehicle drivers are idiots... and sadly that won't change anytime soon!
06 December 2012, 11:11 PM
#50
07 December 2012, 10:42 AM
#51
The majority of cyclists (in London at least) fail to follow any kind of traffic rules. This is the number one reason why they are disliked.
And yet the programme failed to acknowledge this, instead just showing the extreme end of the spectrum of the couriers with their deathwish. All the programme needed to do was show a busy pedestrian crossing for 5 minutes and the viewer would quickly understand why some view cyclists with such contempt.
And yet it was completely overlooked. Yes, the show was biased.
And yet the programme failed to acknowledge this, instead just showing the extreme end of the spectrum of the couriers with their deathwish. All the programme needed to do was show a busy pedestrian crossing for 5 minutes and the viewer would quickly understand why some view cyclists with such contempt.
And yet it was completely overlooked. Yes, the show was biased.
07 December 2012, 11:15 AM
#52
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The majority of cyclists (in London at least) fail to follow any kind of traffic rules. This is the number one reason why they are disliked.
And yet the programme failed to acknowledge this, instead just showing the extreme end of the spectrum of the couriers with their deathwish. All the programme needed to do was show a busy pedestrian crossing for 5 minutes and the viewer would quickly understand why some view cyclists with such contempt.
And yet it was completely overlooked. Yes, the show was biased.
And yet the programme failed to acknowledge this, instead just showing the extreme end of the spectrum of the couriers with their deathwish. All the programme needed to do was show a busy pedestrian crossing for 5 minutes and the viewer would quickly understand why some view cyclists with such contempt.
And yet it was completely overlooked. Yes, the show was biased.
07 December 2012, 01:12 PM
#54
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Oh the irony of cycle droid accusing a van driver of assault because he touched his helmet cam, while later physically restraining a cyclist who had jumped a red light
07 December 2012, 03:34 PM
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It really is rather childish to have a pitched battle between road users in such a way. It only needs cyclists to acknowledge that they have a duty to follow RTA rules and to suppress their inverted snobbery towards car drivers, and for drivers to be careful when close to cyclists and give them the room they deserve to ride safely.
It would make life on the roads so much easier and relaxing as well as safer of course!
Les
It would make life on the roads so much easier and relaxing as well as safer of course!
Les
08 December 2012, 02:08 PM
#57
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IMO all this shouting they don't need a licence to use the road is what part of the probelm is. The fact that anyone can buy a bike and go cycling legally on the prublic roads with zero training is not sensible!
08 December 2012, 02:53 PM
#58
The majority of cyclists (in London at least) fail to follow any kind of traffic rules. This is the number one reason why they are disliked.
And yet the programme failed to acknowledge this, instead just showing the extreme end of the spectrum of the couriers with their deathwish. All the programme needed to do was show a busy pedestrian crossing for 5 minutes and the viewer would quickly understand why some view cyclists with such contempt.
And yet it was completely overlooked. Yes, the show was biased.
And yet the programme failed to acknowledge this, instead just showing the extreme end of the spectrum of the couriers with their deathwish. All the programme needed to do was show a busy pedestrian crossing for 5 minutes and the viewer would quickly understand why some view cyclists with such contempt.
And yet it was completely overlooked. Yes, the show was biased.
08 December 2012, 03:59 PM
#59
Scooby Regular
If i were an everyday cyclist on city roads,never assume that the Bus,lorry,car has seen you,think what if they haven't seen me.
And the one going around shouting and screaming smile for the camera etc is a tw@at.You're going to really get someones back up one day and they are not going to give a toss about your helmet cam.
Many on the roads need to chill out and have a bit more patience and awareness,whatever mode of transport you're using.
And the one going around shouting and screaming smile for the camera etc is a tw@at.You're going to really get someones back up one day and they are not going to give a toss about your helmet cam.
Many on the roads need to chill out and have a bit more patience and awareness,whatever mode of transport you're using.
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