M2RTXbugeye
11 September 2013, 08:35 AM
#512
Hi Martin
Personally I would go with 2.1L,its awesome engine if its build right,yes cost can be the issue if you are comparing to the used STI8 engine,but do you know how has been treated etc.
With MD321T 2.1L is great choice and can only recommend,we have run 2.1L and must admit we are loved 2.1
Jura
Personally I would go with 2.1L,its awesome engine if its build right,yes cost can be the issue if you are comparing to the used STI8 engine,but do you know how has been treated etc.
With MD321T 2.1L is great choice and can only recommend,we have run 2.1L and must admit we are loved 2.1
Jura
Out of the box I too would be worried about a 2.5, but if you going to do it properly you can sort out the weak links in the build and the engine will be strong enough for more than what you want. If you're going down the stroker route anyway it makes sense - it is certainly the way I would go
Think the final figure I'd want would be upto 500hp
defo don't want to drop a used engine in then it pops. Think I may pm a few builders on here to see what the plan would be n costs etc
Martin
11 September 2013, 09:00 AM
#513
IMO a 2.5 at 500bhp is on or near the tipping point..............you'd want it CDB inserted before that level
for a road car a good 2.1 will never achieve the same sort of spool/torque that a 2.5 will (at similiar spec) BUT it can potentially be put together slightly more cost effectively
for a road car a good 2.1 will never achieve the same sort of spool/torque that a 2.5 will (at similiar spec) BUT it can potentially be put together slightly more cost effectively
11 September 2013, 09:07 AM
#514
IMO a 2.5 at 500bhp is on or near the tipping point..............you'd want it CDB inserted before that level
for a road car a good 2.1 will never achieve the same sort of spool/torque that a 2.5 will (at similiar spec) BUT it can potentially be put together slightly more cost effectively
for a road car a good 2.1 will never achieve the same sort of spool/torque that a 2.5 will (at similiar spec) BUT it can potentially be put together slightly more cost effectively
As its only ever going to be a road car im debating wether I just drop a sti8 engine in so I have a more reliable engine then the wrx but still keeping it cost effective. My only concern this way would be if that engine went then having to shell out for a rebuild or another Sti engine which would probably have me paying twice
Martin
11 September 2013, 09:09 AM
#515
Scooby Senior
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Speak to people like Slowboy, Engine Tuner, API, Scoobyclinic etc and they should all be able to give you a feel for prices whilst also giving you sound advice on which engine/turbo combo would give you what you want in terms or power and drivability
11 September 2013, 01:35 PM
#516
No point wasting the money & dealing with idiotic people. Save the money & enjoy the car as it is.
Build cost Vs Performace is not worth it, unless you do the work yourself. You wont notice a huge difference going from a 2.0l to 2.1. If I was you I would buy a STi 8 short motor & forge it if you plan to go over 450hp.
We bought a used low mileage STi 8 short motor for my uncles car, dropped £300 Mahle pistons, £400 Carillo rods, 11mm ARP bolts, ACL bearings & Cosworth head gaskets. Parts cost us £1500, some parts bought new of here & we built it, in total including oil pump etc it cost us just under 2k.
We have been running 560hp on Vpower since the build
Not bad hey?
Build cost Vs Performace is not worth it, unless you do the work yourself. You wont notice a huge difference going from a 2.0l to 2.1. If I was you I would buy a STi 8 short motor & forge it if you plan to go over 450hp.
We bought a used low mileage STi 8 short motor for my uncles car, dropped £300 Mahle pistons, £400 Carillo rods, 11mm ARP bolts, ACL bearings & Cosworth head gaskets. Parts cost us £1500, some parts bought new of here & we built it, in total including oil pump etc it cost us just under 2k.
We have been running 560hp on Vpower since the build
Not bad hey?
11 September 2013, 04:31 PM
#517
No point wasting the money & dealing with idiotic people. Save the money & enjoy the car as it is.
Build cost Vs Performace is not worth it, unless you do the work yourself. You wont notice a huge difference going from a 2.0l to 2.1. If I was you I would buy a STi 8 short motor & forge it if you plan to go over 450hp.
We bought a used low mileage STi 8 short motor for my uncles car, dropped £300 Mahle pistons, £400 Carillo rods, 11mm ARP bolts, ACL bearings & Cosworth head gaskets. Parts cost us £1500, some parts bought new of here & we built it, in total including oil pump etc it cost us just under 2k.
We have been running 560hp on Vpower since the build
Not bad hey?
Build cost Vs Performace is not worth it, unless you do the work yourself. You wont notice a huge difference going from a 2.0l to 2.1. If I was you I would buy a STi 8 short motor & forge it if you plan to go over 450hp.
We bought a used low mileage STi 8 short motor for my uncles car, dropped £300 Mahle pistons, £400 Carillo rods, 11mm ARP bolts, ACL bearings & Cosworth head gaskets. Parts cost us £1500, some parts bought new of here & we built it, in total including oil pump etc it cost us just under 2k.
We have been running 560hp on Vpower since the build
Not bad hey?
Alyn not had time to call you but would this be something you'd be interested in doing mate?
Martin
12 September 2013, 07:13 PM
#519
Ultimately would like a build (if that's the route I take) to be strong enough to cope with upto 500hp anything else is a bonus.
Not had chance to ring Alyn been busy woth work so will find out if he can source the engine I need to do the work on it for me. Ill be keeping with the vf34 initially until funds allow for a bigger turbo
Martin
Last edited by M2RTXhawkeye; 12 September 2013 at 07:15 PM.
12 September 2013, 10:00 PM
#523
Hi Martin
For safe 500bhp you have few choices like CDB insert for 2.5L or you can go route of the 2.1L Open deck block,people running Open Deck block at this level without the problem,we run on our ODB 490bhp and this has been without the NOS(NOS has been mapped on the open road)
But still I would build engine not just for 500bhp,because after few months you will be wanting more and more and due this I would go probably with CDB to the future
Really depends how far you want to go
Jura
For safe 500bhp you have few choices like CDB insert for 2.5L or you can go route of the 2.1L Open deck block,people running Open Deck block at this level without the problem,we run on our ODB 490bhp and this has been without the NOS(NOS has been mapped on the open road)
But still I would build engine not just for 500bhp,because after few months you will be wanting more and more and due this I would go probably with CDB to the future
Really depends how far you want to go
Jura
12 September 2013, 10:48 PM
#524
Hi Martin
For safe 500bhp you have few choices like CDB insert for 2.5L or you can go route of the 2.1L Open deck block,people running Open Deck block at this level without the problem,we run on our ODB 490bhp and this has been without the NOS(NOS has been mapped on the open road)
But still I would build engine not just for 500bhp,because after few months you will be wanting more and more and due this I would go probably with CDB to the future
Really depends how far you want to go
Jura
For safe 500bhp you have few choices like CDB insert for 2.5L or you can go route of the 2.1L Open deck block,people running Open Deck block at this level without the problem,we run on our ODB 490bhp and this has been without the NOS(NOS has been mapped on the open road)
But still I would build engine not just for 500bhp,because after few months you will be wanting more and more and due this I would go probably with CDB to the future
Really depends how far you want to go
Jura
Seems I can't get away from the Scooby scene so I may aswell plan for the future and have an engine capable of more power as it wouldt be cost effective to have one built then to have another built when the power bug bites again. CDB insert I read up on and I think this will be the route to go but on a 2.5l to get the torque.
Decisions decisions lol going to have a good think about it then like Alyn once told me wrote it all down then come up with a plan. Will keep you posted on what I decide and which route ill take
Martin
13 September 2013, 02:06 AM
#525
Hi Martin
Personally I would build too engine which will be capable more power if needs to be
If you will be going with 2.5L then you will need to use 2.5L heads and possibly swap to aftermarket ECU,although you can CNC'd 2.0L heads which will match 2.5L
Good luck and please keep posted Martin
Jura
Personally I would build too engine which will be capable more power if needs to be
If you will be going with 2.5L then you will need to use 2.5L heads and possibly swap to aftermarket ECU,although you can CNC'd 2.0L heads which will match 2.5L
Good luck and please keep posted Martin
Jura
13 September 2013, 08:49 AM
#526
This cars never going to be tracked kas so fast road only which means spool is priority but would like to see somewhere close to 450hp for now. I know the newage Sti lumps can do that but I'm thinking would it be better to forge the engine to make it stronger if ever I feel the need for more power?
Ultimately would like a build (if that's the route I take) to be strong enough to cope with upto 500hp anything else is a bonus.
Not had chance to ring Alyn been busy woth work so will find out if he can source the engine I need to do the work on it for me. Ill be keeping with the vf34 initially until funds allow for a bigger turbo
Martin
Ultimately would like a build (if that's the route I take) to be strong enough to cope with upto 500hp anything else is a bonus.
Not had chance to ring Alyn been busy woth work so will find out if he can source the engine I need to do the work on it for me. Ill be keeping with the vf34 initially until funds allow for a bigger turbo
Martin
I would'nt get too caught up in numbers though, on a 2.5 with a decent 400+ turbo you will find it very spooly & responsive. For road use I find a smaller turbo performing better on a 2.5 compared to a larger turbo. I ran a VF34 & a 18g on my classic with 2.5, absolutely ballistic!
My personal choice would be a destroked 2.5, taking you down to a 2.33.
13 September 2013, 08:57 AM
#527
yes can happily talk through a few options but give me a little time or email as rushed of our feet here at the mo..............
personally no need at this level for the extra messing with a de-stroked 2.5, simply build a strong CDB'd bottom end and happy days - one of the nicest all round packages we have been involved with simply uses a 20g and has a real nice blend of power/spool on a 2.5
IMO the 34, etc. are too small and you end up with a lack of breathing at the top end (although Turbo Diesel like from 1400-1500rpm !!)
personally no need at this level for the extra messing with a de-stroked 2.5, simply build a strong CDB'd bottom end and happy days - one of the nicest all round packages we have been involved with simply uses a 20g and has a real nice blend of power/spool on a 2.5
IMO the 34, etc. are too small and you end up with a lack of breathing at the top end (although Turbo Diesel like from 1400-1500rpm !!)
13 September 2013, 12:30 PM
#529
Hi Martin
Personally I would build too engine which will be capable more power if needs to be
If you will be going with 2.5L then you will need to use 2.5L heads and possibly swap to aftermarket ECU,although you can CNC'd 2.0L heads which will match 2.5L
Good luck and please keep posted Martin
Jura
Personally I would build too engine which will be capable more power if needs to be
If you will be going with 2.5L then you will need to use 2.5L heads and possibly swap to aftermarket ECU,although you can CNC'd 2.0L heads which will match 2.5L
Good luck and please keep posted Martin
Jura
For fast road use the 2.5 would be ideal. If you plan on making 500+ then CDB inserts & 14mm head studs would be worth doing.
I would'nt get too caught up in numbers though, on a 2.5 with a decent 400+ turbo you will find it very spooly & responsive. For road use I find a smaller turbo performing better on a 2.5 compared to a larger turbo. I ran a VF34 & a 18g on my classic with 2.5, absolutely ballistic!
My personal choice would be a destroked 2.5, taking you down to a 2.33.
I would'nt get too caught up in numbers though, on a 2.5 with a decent 400+ turbo you will find it very spooly & responsive. For road use I find a smaller turbo performing better on a 2.5 compared to a larger turbo. I ran a VF34 & a 18g on my classic with 2.5, absolutely ballistic!
My personal choice would be a destroked 2.5, taking you down to a 2.33.
yes can happily talk through a few options but give me a little time or email as rushed of our feet here at the mo..............
personally no need at this level for the extra messing with a de-stroked 2.5, simply build a strong CDB'd bottom end and happy days - one of the nicest all round packages we have been involved with simply uses a 20g and has a real nice blend of power/spool on a 2.5
IMO the 34, etc. are too small and you end up with a lack of breathing at the top end (although Turbo Diesel like from 1400-1500rpm !!)
personally no need at this level for the extra messing with a de-stroked 2.5, simply build a strong CDB'd bottom end and happy days - one of the nicest all round packages we have been involved with simply uses a 20g and has a real nice blend of power/spool on a 2.5
IMO the 34, etc. are too small and you end up with a lack of breathing at the top end (although Turbo Diesel like from 1400-1500rpm !!)
Martin
never ending this Scooby story 
21 September 2013, 05:31 PM
#539
Yours still looks far better Frayz
will show me up It'd be great to get some shots with yours though
Cheers Dan, literally bought another set the day after you received yours
the set I bought are going to mags to be done in gold so I have a gold set for winter and keep the blacks for the summer Martin