toneh

iTrader: (1)

Yes mate I did
Td05
Full decat 3 inch exhaust
Injectors
Fmic
Tgv delete
Pump
Mapped

Bhp don't know , and don't care tbh
It pulls and drives spot on that's all that matters
Was gonna put it on dyno of a local well know tuner until it became clear he had no idea of the map I was running and didn't know how I had done it
So I thought hang on , why am I gonna trust Someone with my car on his rollers when he doesn't even know what I'm running
And trust me ,,, known tuner , I was shocked
Hence another reason I can't go along with this mapping bs

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

but how do you know what bhp improvement you have made??
you have no figures to back up your claims.
you could have actually made less bhp.
at least the "known tuners" as you put it have evidence to back up there claims in the form of rr print outs and satisfied customers,this is also what people are paying for.

it pulls and drives spot on isnt much of a claim as mine did that from the factory without a remap.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

Hello mate, you just couldn't let it lie could you.

Well, well, well, guess what? i'm one of the people that tony has set on the road to mapping.

I have been in his car, with all his DIY mods and mapping, and it pulls like a train, launches ect and he gave it a fair amount of stick, although his driving is a bit suspect, there is nowt wrong with his mapping.

I even let him plug his mystical £7.00 ecu cable into my car and download the map as well as monitor it while i gave it a little stick just to check for det ect.

Thing is i agree with him, when you actually see how it's done and have it in front of you, i got the gyst of it in about 5/10 mins, i'm by no means saying i can map a car YET, but if you have your map stored and your not happy with the changes you've made, just flash your original map back in and start again.

I had a forged rebuild done by a so called specialist that went pop after a simtec was fitted and mapped to be met with a shrug of the shoulders, it was mapped by a very well known mapper and was never right prior to that.

In short i have spent an absolute fortune on my type r and it's in bits in my garage.

I have built one engine and it's sweet as a nut, i shall be building another two soon, people said that was a science, but to be honest it's easy, really easy and you don't even need a lot of tools to do it, and i'll be fcuked if i'm letting anyone map them but myself, at least then if they blow up i'll know why and who to blame.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

RR printouts mean nothing other than bragging rights
I know it's not less mate , I'm not daft , ive been working on two today
One yesterday and I know how mine is in comparison , chalk and cheese
Members on here have been in it and agree its certainly no slouch
I've welcomed members to pop round to talk mapping and start them on there way and my car is there to see or drive , I've nothing to hide my work is on display , it is what it is ,

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

im genuinely interested, i would never dream off mapping myself.
i know rr figures arent the be all and end all but are a good gauge of how well the tuning has gone surely.
i really hope some mappers join the thread soon.
good luck to you though if you can pull of cheap mapping you will be in demand on here.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Lol you know me
And Ive not forgot the 3 legged horse comment ya know

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I was in it, and my 8yr old seat of the pants dyno says it's running at around 310bhp, thats compairing it to my type r @ 321bhp and i'd say a bit more as it goes pretty much identical to that, only thing holding it back is the tmic, which should change soon or maybe has because it was on but not plumed in.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

No mate a good rr print out with good power doesn't mean set up is right
You can get higher power figures by tweaking timing to close limits but it could be too far
Same with fuelling
It's a lot bigger picture than just a rr printout

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

You must have some yardstick to tell you the changes your making are moving you in the right direction? Do you use some form of road dyno software?

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

if he can map on the cheap he will be scoobynets new best friend.
as said earlier mappers have to start somewhere but im sure a lot of remaps are sold on reputation and some of this reputation must have come from rr figures as this is pretty much the only way to prove mapping skills.

come on mappers join in.............

toneh

iTrader: (1)

You can use virtual dyno if you want but you can juggle it to get what you want to see
As for mapping for money or on the cheap no , I've not really got any intention of doing that
I'm doing a couple of mates
But like I've said on another thread I'm more than happy to try and help folk on there way to map there own car or whatever
The reason I've started this thread was purely because I cannot see how mapping is so expensive , especially without dyno facilities

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

good luck with it then fella im off to bed, im sure it will be 20 pages by tommorow night.
its an interesting subject and a good thread.
i guess its expensive though as people can't do it themselves so have no choice other than to pay.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

This is the thing, too many are concerned with numbers, when what you want is drivability, it's the same with power mods over handling mods, sort the handling and brakes and thats worth about a 100bhp,when compared to the same car with crappy brakes and suspension,tyres ect.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

That's good I'll be running the equivalent of about 500hp when my wheels are round then
What does make me laugh is its no skin off my nose how much folk spend on mapping , but when you point out and say hey guys you're having your pants pulled down the response is like you've just s**t in there lunch box

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

lol, you've a great way of putting things our kid.

Might pop over in a week or so when i'm back to see how she pulls with the front mount.

CharlySkunkWeed

iTrader: (7)

so how can anyone argue a point if they dont have experience of both sides (or know of someone who has). If none of us have had a bad experience with an amature , how can you tell everyone not to to it ?

and , i would say most on here have their cars mapped. If their car blew up tomorrow , who would know it wasnt wasnt due to the map ? I guarentee the mapper (if you even bother asking) would say nothing.

Black Widow

iTrader: (2)

Coffee's on, I'm Subscribed.

marcevs72

iTrader: (5)

you wont get any of the known mappers replying to this as too much for them to have to justify.yes mapping with the cheap kit off of ebay can be done at home but its down to experience.someone that has mapped 1000 scoobs has a lot more experience than someone that has done 20 etc and will be able to spot and diagnose problems easier...
BUT the hourly charges are mental.a 15 minute map tweek....that will be £150 of your hard earned mate.smacks a bit of easy money.
plus the scare mongering that goes with tuning scoobies is unreal.if you fit a decat without changing your pants on a thursday it will blow up etc LOL.
these cars can be tuned without the need for mapping (mapping just gets the maximum from your mods )
my old uk classic had full hks decat,headers/up pipe,induction,newage intercooler and walbro and gained 50 bhp and when checked ran sweet as a nut and afr's were spot on.
yet on here i was told it will go bang etc as its not mapped.how many cars on here have got lots of parts added without being mapped for them and after years are still going strong???
dont get me wrong there is a place for the top mappers and will use them when my stroker is built but its about time the scare mongering stopped and prices became more realistic.

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

I used to map my old Saab with a fairly long list of mods. I wouldn't say its *that* hard to get a map that is "OK", but its hard to make a great map (takes lots of iterations).

I dont think I'd DIY my Subarus, though, as if they go pop it is significantly more expensive to fix, and more importantly, it takes a LONG time to get a map "right". For someone who is busy at work, Id rather just pay the money to JGM and have him get me another great map in half a day, rather than spend a week making small tweaks because I dont have the expertise to know what works on an EJ20. When DIY mapping and making lots of iterations, dont forget to take into account the extra fuel cost of making all those extra runs - it all adds up after you've spent a couple of tank-fulls mapping.

CREWJ

Ok ok, mapping isn't actually that hard. I've mapped many competition engines in my time but if I'd spent a fortune on my car I would still go to a reputable mapper for piece of mind. At least go to someone who has had experience with these types of engines.

playtime

iTrader: (1)

I myself was interested in mapping sometime ago read alot about this if you have the knowledge toneh please share with us this way people will actually see whats needed.

Instead of attacking mappers share this with us and get the people who would otherwise be scared to try this for themself's arguing get's you no were "name down if you would like to learn mapping"

Could snet also setup a page for open source mapping that way the community could share knowledge you post up for help about fitting car parts so why not mapping advance the site to the next level.


1. Sites you use
2. Places for cables
3. Software your mapping with

1. Playtime

urban

iTrader: (1)

Hmmmmmmmm

I would only use a mapper with a good reputation.

DT-SPD

iTrader: (7)

Good reply from playtime

I would like to see a section of scoobynet setup for open source mapping, as seen on other Subaru forums.

I have nearly 20yrs engine mapping experience but new to Subaru open source. Got into it after paying to have my car mapped and not realising that the equipment to do it was readily available and low cost.

I am happy to help teach what I have learnt and help others map their cars.

serega

So we have established

1) Map tweaking is not hard and almost anyone can do it when given the tools and time

2) Experience matters when you are mapping from scratch or want a perfect map

3) Mappers charge too much, but their experience makes it worth it

Stop circling already, i'm dizzy.


We've had one of our best mappers in the country (pretty far from your place!) reduce his rate to 100 pounds per map when everyone else was/is charging 300-400 pounds per map. Clearly, he feels that even at 100 pounds it's a job worth doing and i agree.
It's a bit of a backstab to other mappers on his behalf, but when the majority would rather learn the job themselves, that is a clear cut sign that something must be done and he went for it, kudos.

UK might not be ready for this sort of revolution yet, as people generally have better earnings and can afford to pay other people for their experience instead of wasting their own time learning a new trade themselves .

john banks

There is reasonable money in it, but if you consider the overheads of a real business and actually run your mapping as one, the profits are reasonable but not silly.

Holding an engine together with your map through seasons and over years, and dealing with difficult diagnostic cases and random failures whilst keeping the customer on side are more complex issues that are not reflected in apparent initial flair at using open source mapping software.

playtime

iTrader: (1)

It's not about making money from my point i would rather gain the knowledge and experiance for the snet community's benefit and share our vast amount of info with each other.

Let's face facts here how many on snet have vast knowledge from these cars we could form teams of people and build one from scratch if this needed done many time over so why not with a extended open source section.

The Pink Ninja

iTrader: (23)

NASOIC and IWSTI have most of the info you need
I've already fitted a LC1 wideband and have software for it on my laptop fOr logging, Not that I intend to touch my car but it's good for learning and seeing how things work IMO and I agree it's not rocket science.

Infected by sti

iTrader: (6)

Subscribed

Good speach toneh making for a good read, i have no experience what so ever when it comes to this game but id certainly like to have a play about with it, so far to the point i think i may even buy a standard ****ter to see how far i can push it lol old classics are 10 to the penny these days, so to me spending out on a "learner car" to see how specific values work, change etc etc rather than using my daily ride just incase " the myth" of going bang actually does come in to play, at least i know it will have been something ive done lol

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

While its not something I'd ever try, it is something I am now more interested about after watching this thread evolve.
I'm happy to pay £150 every time I need a tweak and I trust Paul 100% so the money isn't an issue for me.

What I would like to see is some big known names post in the thread. I've found many times on here that the known mappers/builders/tuners shy away from certain threads so not to upset others, almost as if they are scared of losing some of their rep or whatever.
I've asked for opinions from known tuners before on threads where their opinion might go against another tuners but they didn't post.

Tidgy

Last self mapper who I know started doing it for folks was 7/20,,,,,,,

7 cars out of 20 needing new engines. The info they used for mapping came from NASIOC.

So bring on a few questions, is the work insured? Do you have liability insurance? what happens if it goes wrong and you blow up someones car? or worst still you crash and kill someone? the customers persoanl insurance wont cover you and you will be locked up for a multitude of offenses.

You pay a decent rate for the mapper because of there knowledge, mapping a few cars doesn't give you that knowledge.

I'm no mapper, but if you realy think you have the knowledge go over onto 22b.com and chat there, most of the well known mappers hang out on there rather than on here.