Classic tuning thread on here...
17 March 2012, 01:06 AM
#31
Maxed injectors in competiton is a bad idea! No headroom. Gives det more of a chance to do it's thang.
You can junk the MAF, as ESL now do a MAFless version of the mappable daughterboard. Defo go MAFless then! Gives you one less thing to worry about failing and screwing the fuelling... esp. in competition, when sustained high revs/WOT is the order of the day!
So amongst the other mods you mentioned, I'd go:-
550s
FMIC
MAFless ESL
You can junk the MAF, as ESL now do a MAFless version of the mappable daughterboard. Defo go MAFless then! Gives you one less thing to worry about failing and screwing the fuelling... esp. in competition, when sustained high revs/WOT is the order of the day!
So amongst the other mods you mentioned, I'd go:-
550s
FMIC
MAFless ESL
Last edited by joz8968; 17 March 2012 at 01:09 AM.
17 March 2012, 01:10 AM
#32
I wouldn't worry about what other people have 'got' 
I tend to take other peoples figures with a vat of salt lol focus on a safe figure and mod accordingly. If it were me I would aim for 300 ish running 1.3 bar on 440's and standard maf. Stripped out it will fly . Anymore and your box WILL die
If it's a UK 2000 then you need a turbo as it will be a TD04.
Also if you're running a FMIC you must get the uppipe decatted and ported headers. Simple gasket matching is fine but you need all the spool you can get for events
I tend to take other peoples figures with a vat of salt lol focus on a safe figure and mod accordingly. If it were me I would aim for 300 ish running 1.3 bar on 440's and standard maf. Stripped out it will fly . Anymore and your box WILL die If it's a UK 2000 then you need a turbo as it will be a TD04.
Also if you're running a FMIC you must get the uppipe decatted and ported headers. Simple gasket matching is fine but you need all the spool you can get for events
17 March 2012, 01:12 AM
#33
If injectors are an issue I would still go 440's but send them off to Lateral Performance for a flow match and modify. You end up with larger injectors and a better more even flow accross the 4. works out cheaper in most cases than buying a good set of 550s
works out cheaper in most cases than buying a good set of 550s
17 March 2012, 01:15 AM
#35
My pre facelift turbo 2000 has a TD05 though? I think! lol...
To be honest, i'm not actually worried about what power the piece of paper says i'm running, i want something that feels good, rather than sounds good when i tell people!
So Go MAF less with an ESL & look at 550's.
Where should i look for the 550's? & what do you guys think of Japspeed intercoolers? Ran one on my R32 Skyline & it seemed a great bit of kit
To be honest, i'm not actually worried about what power the piece of paper says i'm running, i want something that feels good, rather than sounds good when i tell people!
So Go MAF less with an ESL & look at 550's.
Where should i look for the 550's? & what do you guys think of Japspeed intercoolers? Ran one on my R32 Skyline & it seemed a great bit of kit
17 March 2012, 01:19 AM
#37
AS 53 said, it's cheaper and better to get a cheap set of 440s flow-matched by LP to 930cc. (175+VAT). A bit overkill perhaps, but the remap on ESL should be able to control them okay. It's not as if you'll be worrying about idle after all (but it'll be okay)....
Last edited by joz8968; 17 March 2012 at 01:21 AM.
17 March 2012, 01:39 AM
#43
I got it 2nd hand off a well regarded member (trader at the time ) on here. Been doing the business since I had it fitted/mapped in Nov 2010.
Proper 20g's can be bought off harvey or Andy Forrest. But there are now 20g alternatives (for like for like cfm airflow), with roller bearings and billet comp wheels, etc. available.
It's a OEM STi Version VI (6) front lip/splitter. Same with the top half to the rear wing - it's the VI one (with the upturned 'guerney').
My car looks like a VI; but it's actually a V (5) - as the date of manufacture/Applied model code dictates.
Proper 20g's can be bought off harvey or Andy Forrest. But there are now 20g alternatives (for like for like cfm airflow), with roller bearings and billet comp wheels, etc. available.
It's a OEM STi Version VI (6) front lip/splitter. Same with the top half to the rear wing - it's the VI one (with the upturned 'guerney').
My car looks like a VI; but it's actually a V (5) - as the date of manufacture/Applied model code dictates.
Last edited by joz8968; 17 March 2012 at 01:52 AM.
18 March 2012, 08:55 PM
#49
lol,its a private joke between me and joz,goes back a long way about a problem i had with my old car,dont worry you were not meant to understand.
its a long story.it just keeps popping up from time to time on other peoples threads,you wouldnt be the first to be confused!
its a long story.it just keeps popping up from time to time on other peoples threads,you wouldnt be the first to be confused!
20 March 2012, 02:35 PM
#52
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All good info.
ESL, 97> map sensor, FMIC, 440s, induction, stock td05 and a Walboro usually good for 330hp.
Add an FPR for a bit more fuel headroom or bigger injectors (the modded 440s seem cheap but give monster flow. Fortunately the ESL idle quality is good enough to control them).
Add 20% meth on map 2 as an inexpensive way to get over 350hp. Stock gearbox will now die, but apparently the 5 speed 754 boxes on Jap imports are tough enough to take that and cost circa £500 if you don't want to go 6 speed.
The VF turboed sti 3s and 4s on ESL have all made 340-350bhp so far and while its early days, I haven't heard of a gearbox failure yet.
My ESL 98 Wagon just made 482 on RCMs 'conservative' rollers, but that is on a six speed and the turbo ran out of puff at 1.7bar. Going for a twisted GT35 next, 2 bar and aiming for 600hp.
ESL, 97> map sensor, FMIC, 440s, induction, stock td05 and a Walboro usually good for 330hp.
Add an FPR for a bit more fuel headroom or bigger injectors (the modded 440s seem cheap but give monster flow. Fortunately the ESL idle quality is good enough to control them).
Add 20% meth on map 2 as an inexpensive way to get over 350hp. Stock gearbox will now die, but apparently the 5 speed 754 boxes on Jap imports are tough enough to take that and cost circa £500 if you don't want to go 6 speed.
The VF turboed sti 3s and 4s on ESL have all made 340-350bhp so far and while its early days, I haven't heard of a gearbox failure yet.
My ESL 98 Wagon just made 482 on RCMs 'conservative' rollers, but that is on a six speed and the turbo ran out of puff at 1.7bar. Going for a twisted GT35 next, 2 bar and aiming for 600hp.
20 March 2012, 09:30 PM
#53
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I noticed Shaks-STi on here is running 380 lb-ft of torque through his standard TY752 STi 4 5-speed gearbox 
According to the spec sheet, Shaks is running a forged EJ257 and ESL board mapped by Dunc running 366bhp. The torque must make that car real nice to drive.
Although the old 5-speeds are nowhere near as strong as the 6-speed, it is well worth noting that (1) not all are created equal and (2) they don't all fall to bits at the hint of mild tuning. I'm trying to bust the myth that they all fall apart at 350 (although many early non-STi boxes undoubtedly do)
The STi boxes do seem to be a bit stronger, although I think Shaks-STi is planning more power and a 6 speed, which is probably wise given the torque available from the 2.5 litre. Be interesting to know how long the STi 5-speed would last with that output though!
According to the spec sheet, Shaks is running a forged EJ257 and ESL board mapped by Dunc running 366bhp. The torque must make that car real nice to drive.
Although the old 5-speeds are nowhere near as strong as the 6-speed, it is well worth noting that (1) not all are created equal and (2) they don't all fall to bits at the hint of mild tuning. I'm trying to bust the myth that they all fall apart at 350 (although many early non-STi boxes undoubtedly do)
The STi boxes do seem to be a bit stronger, although I think Shaks-STi is planning more power and a 6 speed, which is probably wise given the torque available from the 2.5 litre. Be interesting to know how long the STi 5-speed would last with that output though!
20 March 2012, 10:45 PM
#54
I'm running 350lb ft (well, 349.2 lol), since Nov. '10.
Admittedly, I have the later, stronger TY754 box. And it has c.48k on it.
But I never launch. And don't slam through the gears, dragstrip style, neither.
So far so good...
I think Martyn J ran a late Classic @ 400lb ft for 4 or 5 years, on its original box, too.
Admittedly, I have the later, stronger TY754 box. And it has c.48k on it.
But I never launch. And don't slam through the gears, dragstrip style, neither.
So far so good...
I think Martyn J ran a late Classic @ 400lb ft for 4 or 5 years, on its original box, too.
20 March 2012, 11:10 PM
#55
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There was a guy on here (Terry someone?) running 450bhp through a standard STi 5 speed and doing Time Attack rounds on it as well, so the box was worked hard. Don't know what torque he was running.
Note that not all TY754 boxes are the same though - some seem to cope less well. The STi boxes do seem to be stronger.
The one weakness that does apply to all including STis is a weak synchro on 4th gear, so being careful on that gearchange is a good move!
20 March 2012, 11:42 PM
#56
Cheers for the 4th gear tip.
So, is a Classic WRX TY754 weaker than its STi TY754 counterpart then. I thought they were effectively the same (aside from gear ratio/FD changes)?
What makes a Classic STi TY754 box stronger the WRX TY754 one then?... Are the STi's gears shot-peened or something, then?
So, is a Classic WRX TY754 weaker than its STi TY754 counterpart then. I thought they were effectively the same (aside from gear ratio/FD changes)?
What makes a Classic STi TY754 box stronger the WRX TY754 one then?... Are the STi's gears shot-peened or something, then?
Last edited by joz8968; 20 March 2012 at 11:47 PM.
21 March 2012, 12:07 AM
#57
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I'd like to gather some hard evidence on the subject though.
21 March 2012, 09:21 AM
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The v4 STi type R is a TY752, but this box seems to be stronger than the earlier TY752. According to internet rumour (cough! careful now) this gearbox has improved 1st/2nd/3rd gears over the earlier ones. (Internet rumour has this only for v3/v4 STi type R, STi type RA and WRX type RA - not vanilla v3/v4 STi or WRX) This is the gearbox Shaks-STi is currently running 366bhp / 380lb-ft through. I would watch how that box holds up very carefully
I've found an older thread discussing gearboxes. It mentions Martyn's gearbox - apparently it finally broke 4th gear at 520 lb-ft of torque and he then replaced fourth gear and carried on using it. Also noted that it survived "20-25" drag launches. Others there running 450bhp through an STi TY754 without problems.
https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...d-gearbox.html
I've found an older thread discussing gearboxes. It mentions Martyn's gearbox - apparently it finally broke 4th gear at 520 lb-ft of torque
and he then replaced fourth gear and carried on using it. Also noted that it survived "20-25" drag launches. Others there running 450bhp through an STi TY754 without problems.https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...d-gearbox.html