J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Most of the evil acts in the world are done by blokes, world wars are started by blokes, blokes rape women, blokes beat the **** out of each other, blokes start riots, blokes blow up airliners, blokes torture people so snotting a cyclist with a Bus isn't an impossibility.

We can be proud, petulant, aggressive, greedy, lazy, angry, vengeful, blinkered and quite amazingly stupid. Women aren't perfect either but by and large us being the hunter gatherer types that are always jockeying for position, to get an advantage so we can breed and feed our brood means we tend to be on a shorter, stupider fuse.

If some of us can get violent over football, having an uppity cyclist doing a "Ner ner ne ner ner" in front of you when you have a ten tonne bus at your disposal, it must be tempting to use your advantage which is on all levels stupid but then so it winding up someone with a bus when you are on a bike,

So, it is human nature, mainly us males rutting, in this case one was better equipped than the other.

tony de wonderful

Hmm so rape is just a 'natural phenomenon' now is it? It just happens?

It's not the blokes fault, he is just being a man right? Same with attacking cyclists with 10 ton buses? A show of male strength?

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Not justifying his behaviour, or rape but regardless of my opinions and personal way of dealing with things, or yours and the majority of people, people do flip and do stupid, aggressive things and it is usually men, my point was really that for the cyclist, going out of his way to provoke someone he does not know, who is driving a bus whilst on a push bike is not a smart thing to do, what happened is an outside possibility, it is thankfully rare but it was still a possibility.

I am a cyclist and I generally see it from that angle, I do on this one as well but we need to look at things from other perspectives as well, being on a bike does make you feel vulnerable and that is a useful feeling and if cyclists dont feel a bit like that then they need to as that is what protects you, sometimes you need to assert yourself but I think this cyclist went a bit beyond that,he didn't deserve it but he should have perhaps considered the potential outcome and made a point of putting distance between himself and the Bus.

jonc

So let me get this straight so that we're clear. The driver overtook you and correctly signalled to turn left at which point you undertook him as he was about to make the manoeuvrer, thereby deliberately putting your self in immediate danger and you still call the driver an ignorant dick? Are you for real or are you just trolling? If for real, what were you trying to achieve in that situation? Had he knocked you off your bike, I assume that you would place the blame on the driver. I don't suppose you had a head cam and recorded this altercation.

tony de wonderful

Yes I would have blamed the Driver for not checking his mirror.

There was no need to overtake me just to them slam on the anchors and force me to brake.

FYI was pretty close when I saw him indicate and doing an emergency brake on a road bike with skinny tyres in the wet is not something you want to do.

He was completely in the wrong.

jonc

Really? Ultimately you had several choices; 1. brake and stay behind him, 2. overtake the car on the right side, 3. shoot up the inside to make a point and hope he doesn't hit you. I would add that if you had time to think "I'm not going to brake for you you ingnorant dick..." you had time for 1 or 2, the safe and responsible options, but instead you chose 3 which knowing full well that you would have been worse off if he had hit you. You can't be responsible for the action of others, but you are responsible for yourself not to put yourself and others at risk of damage and/or injury.

tony de wonderful

It takes a split second to decide not to brake. It take a lot longer to judge if you have time to overtake on the right, then you have to do a head-check, then maneuver.

Point is his driving was bad for overtaking me then putting me in a position where I am forcing to brake so he can turn left. It's complete ignorance. For all I know I had another cyclist behind me or some other vehicle, plus the skidding hazard of hard braking. So I decided to undertake him as the most reasonable act knowing he was in the wrong.

Worst that could have happened was to go over the roof of his Ferrari, it was quite low. I've gone over bonnet of a car before at a junction when a car turned right without seeing me.

If I had been hurt it would have been open and shut case of him not checking his mirror.

jonc

It also takes a split second apply the brakes too and you were on a clear road. Granted I wasn't there, but from what you have described, this was more of a red mist moment than any attempt of accident avoidence.

tony de wonderful

It might have been better for me to brake, but consider his driving in forcing another road user to make an unnecessary maneuver for no good reason?

Would you overtake a 16 wheeler just to immediately slam on the anchors to turn left?

No that would be idiotic.

But it is ok to do that to a cyclist?

jonc

Likewise would you dive in down the inside of a 16 wheeler that was about to turn? That too would be idiotic. Both parties are in the wrong IMO.

hodgy0_2

you just have to ride for under a mile in an urban area to come across that cvntish behaviour from a car driver

the old -- accelerate hard, cut in and try and make the left turn manoeuvre in front of a cyclist

the bloke new exactly what he was doing, tdw was well within his rights to carry on and not be driven into the curb

obviously no point in making the point at the risk of your own life -- but that is no excuse for putting up with aggressive driving

StickyMicky

I was out on sunday, i had a few miles of road riding before i got to my chosen cyclepath route.

I came around a roundabout with a bus up ahead, it indicated to pull over, no worries i thought as the bus pulled up to a bus stop, i will simply ride around it, except i got halfway alongside it and the driver started to pull out, i **** my pants, he then put his fooking indicators on and slammed on the brakes, i hit my brakes which had me slowing down beside his open window.

"your having a f*cking laugh mate" was quite a timid choice of words for me as i shook my head and continued on, the first thing i thought of was the bloke getting hit by the bus in this posted video.

I was wearing a bright orange top and it was daylight, the bus driver probably never checked his mirrors at all.

He then over took me, just to slow down in front of me when he took the next left turn

I would have quite happily killed him at this point as he was winding me up

3-4 mins later i was onto the proper cyclepath away from the roads, and i cheered up a bit, turned into a decent 22mile route around the river tyne.

Quite lucky around my area as i have little road work to do before i get to the usually cyclepaths, but sundays jaunt was not my usual route/choice, i was actually scouting out the route to see if it would be suitable for me and the missus to tackle one weekend.

StickyMicky

You are as clever as the tool driving the bus on the original video, LOL!

BIG FUD

iTrader: (84)

Bus driver got jail i didnt do the math's

The bad thing the bus driver did was get caught.

SiPie

Amoeba

From reading one of the accounts of the case, my understanding is this:
It appears that was a prior incident. The bus driver had cut-up the cyclist earlier at a roundabout, I have no idea whether it was deliberate / careless-incompetent / aggressive driving, or the exact course of events. Large vehicles are extremely dangerous to cyclists and cyclists in such circumstances are likely to lose their equanimity through such a dangerous experience and are quite likely to become emotional / angry as a result, as indeed would most normal individuals who have just experienced a close shave with death that resulted from the actions of another. Apparently, there was a frank 'exchange' of some sort, presumably the cyclist offered some choice words to the bus driver as a result of his near-death experience.
The centre-lane positioning: It is officially advised (Cyclecraft manual of Bikeability: HMSO) for cyclists to 'take the lane' in many circumstances to give the cyclist manoeuvring room and in order to prevent / discourage a dangerous manoeuvre, such as a dangerously close overtake, which seemed a distinct possibility based upon what had apparently already happened, but without foreknowledge of what was about to transpire.

In the video, there are two lanes and had the bus driver so wished, he could easily have overtaken using the offside lane. Instead, as became evident, the bus driver deliberately chose to follow the cyclist very closely, presumably deliberately with the intent of causing intimidation and fear, when that was unsuccessful, the bus driver elected to attack, using the bus as a weapon. Given that bus masses are ~12T, or ~120 times the cyclist and bike mass combined, there wasn't any significant doubt about the result of any contact. I believe the attack was most likely made with either murderous or malicious intent.

Because the bus driver drove as he did, everything else that transpired was the direct consequence of his driving. If he had passed the cyclist (he had ample opportunity), the cyclist would most probably have moved somewhat closer to the kerb.

The traffic queue. Following traffic couldn't see what the source of the hold-up ahead of the bus, because it was the way the bus was being driven. If the bus had overtaken the cyclist, as it so clearly could have, (as explained above), then the queue would have cleared, subject to other traffic conditions.

My question to those who may disagree: Which is more important? One's personal safety and life, versus a mild and temporary inconvenience to others?

Luan Pra bang

So if the cyclist had any sense of his personal safety he would not have swerved into the path of the bus to stop him overaking agree ?

Amoeba

Do you have any evidence for that? At the beginning of the video it's hard to make-out what's happening, but there's no sign of swerving.

As I already said and is clear from the video, the bus driver could easily have overtaken at any time up to the traffic lights as there were two lanes and no traffic in in either lane that would prevent it.

Since the whole sequence of event apparently began with the bus driver endangering the cyclist, it seems perverse indeed to attempt to shift blame onto the cyclist for provocation. I consider it extremely unlikely that a cyclist would provoke a bus driver.

Drivers don't need provocation, some are obviously out looking for trouble. Even women drivers are not immune from the apparently irresistible temptation to bully cyclists, when they have ~50 to ~200+ horsepower [~37 kWatts to ~150 kWatts] at their command, it can be assumed that men too will do the same. For clarification, that's between ~370 and ~1,500 times the maximum sustained power output of a typical cyclist who can produce only ~ 0.1 kWatt for extended periods. Apparently, 'The driver left a comment on the original video threatening to "bump" this cyclist and has been given a serious warning by the police.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiYj3zvbGTQ

Motorists commonly do things to provoke cyclists. Just ride a bike anywhere and it won't take long.

There's even a study of motorists bullying, hrassing and even killing cyclists, indeed the Bus driver video is part of a growing trend.
Are you trying to justify vehicular assault? Because it sounds like it.

Driven to Kill: Vehicles as Weapons – J Peter. Rothe
University of Alberta associate professor of Public Health J. Peter Rothe researched just this topic for his book Driven to Kill: Vehicles As Weapons. He writes about intentional violence of all types aided by automobile. A central theme of this book, according to Dr Rothe, is that “police investigations are not engaged on the assumption that a driver deliberately uses his vehicle as a weapon for maiming or killing a pedestrian, cyclist, or other roadway users.”
“Stress! Vengeance! Impatience! Entitlement! Aggression! Mood! are prominent factors,” in traffic crashes, says Rothe, but accident investigations still focus on engineering and mechanical factors rather than the human element.
He has a chapter on violence against cyclists in particular, violence which is motivated by a motorist’s feeling of entitlement to the road and irritation that cyclists don’t pay a mythical “road tax” amongst other imagined sins and shortcomings. “A ‘might is right’ mentality erupts in some drivers,” Rothe writes, “that pushes them to discipline [cyclists], to teach them a lesson, which sometimes means steering their cars into bikes, pulling into the bikers paths, or purposely swerving into marked bike lanes.”

Rothe doesn’t set out to demonize automobiles in his book, but to point out that automotive violence is a reflection of our violent culture. Instead of seeing vehicular violence as a normal, naturally occurring part of our transportation infrastructure, he wants to reframe it as a public health issue.

So cite your evidence please!

jods

All cyclists are cvnts.

Luan Pra bang

Amoeba is chatting irrelevant **** your super power skill ? I cycle and IMO most drivers are courteous and considerate but too many cyclists seem to remember the occasional bad driver they meet but thats life.
Getting back to the point look at the video you can see that the cyclist swerves across his lane to block the bus, if you are on a bike sometimes you have to swallow. The cyclist learnt that acting stroppy and aggressive in a situation where you have no power can be dangerous for your health. Its a shame of our namby pamby left wing society that people sometimes never learn this lesson.

Amoeba

Well there's my proof!

Amoeba

Your contention that the video shows the bike blocking the bus is ludicrous, especially given the tiny image and the fact that there are two lanes, which had already been pointed-out to you. Why can you not understand?


Looking from broadly the position of the CCTV
http://g.co/maps/fbhe2

Are you saying that a bus driver would not be able to overtake a cyclist here? Were that true, he would be incompetent and should not be driving, although because of the fact that he endangered the cyclist earlier, that seems likely. The video shows that your 'bus could not overtake' theory, is complete twaddle, because the manoeuvre immediately prior to the attack could have been an overtake, except what followed was an attack, not an overtake.


"The court was told the incident started on the morning of 5 April 2011 when Hill had driven too close to Mr Mead on the nearby St James Barton roundabout." From the BBC.

With power comes responsibility. The status quo is changing, The AA, RAC and Institute of Advanced Motorists all disagree with you.


The medieval concept that 'might is right' has to go and it will.


The belief that cyclists are a homogeneous group has no basis in fact.

It is inevitable that as Peak-oil bites, fuel will increase and availability will decline. Ordinary people look-forward to the day when dangerous drivers are priced off the roads.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Amoeba, some good arguments there and I am with you but to be honest, arguing with the breed of grump, agressive, spoilt, lazy, petulant urban ****** is a waste of time, like Zafira woman, not worth the time of day, as you get wound up and they are still stupid.

I ride and find most drivers are considerate, so are ambivalent, very few are hostile, problem is a lot see it as an affront if you remonstrate with them as they are mighty car drivers and you are a humble cyclist.

I think it will change, but it would take a lot more expensive fuel to get a lot of drivers out of their cars and onto a bike as they know what they are like with cyclists, they are scared and also think they arent fit enough when actually its pretty safe, good fun and not that taxing to amble along at 12 mph for ten miles or so.

The worst thing drivers seem to hate is needlessly millitant cyclists, the Critical Mass lot, I understand where they are coming from but they get a pack mentality and puss drivers off en-masses, then moan when a grumpty cabby in over tight Nylon slacks on the hottest day of the year snaps and runs them off the road, not forgivable but if people are pushed, occasionally they snap, if at that point they are incontrol of a bus and you are ok a bike, you lose, right or wrong but you still end up under a bus.

So, if everyone just chilled and didnt take the opportunity to annoy each other for the sake of sport, a few seconds saved or bloody mindedness it would work better, I have seen the way drivers on my route respond to a wave of thanks, people thrive on positive interaction, trouble is we tend to like to go round and ignore everyone until there is a confrontation, by which point its too late, adrenaline and ego kicks in.

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

QFT