kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Europe reacts with fury apparently...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16114902

jonc

So the merkosy didn't get to have things there own way. At least we won't be handing over £37bn in a financial transaction tax to Brussels which could have meant half a million in job losses.

boomer

...but it is in the EU's interest to maintain a relationship with the UK because they sell more to us than we sell to them!!!!

Oh, and Switzerland exports twice as much per head to the EU than we do (despite being "outside").

Have a read of Daniel Hannan for more interesting facts!

mb

stilover

They're angry because after years of dealing with Blair/Brown who just rolled over and had their tummies tickled by the French/Germans, DC has shown he won't roll over the same way.

Taxing the City of London to help pay for the Euro is NOT in Britians best interest.

Lets say he gives in. Then what?
Big city financial institutions move out of Britain. We now have a £54 Billion tax hole. Then what? Raised taxes for UK workers to plug the gap.

So are people happy to have another 1 or 2p tax put on their wages? Are they happy to have another 10p a litre on petrol? VAT up to 25%?

No, me neither.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

LOL at the French commenting Britain is the only obstacle to a unified Europe.... they weren't complaining when we were playing the same role 70 years ago

David Lock

It may be a cliche but an important one nonetheless - being part of Europe has kept the peace in Europe for 70 years and that has been fantastic for everyone. Putting their noses out of joint now isn't going to help in the future.

I think we are right to be out of the Euro as I simply can't see it surviving as is. There is a Euro trillion black hole, end of. If 17 countries want to act like Lemmings than so be it.

I have heard different thinks about the Tobin tax and this may not have been as big a problem as has been made out. I think Cameron got it wrong - bullied by a collection of out-of-date Tory grandees whose grandpas ran the Empire.

As I have posted before I think we should stop our arms spending and use the huge amount saved into investing in things we are good at such as high tech manufacturing, medical research and creative arts - fashion etc. We'll never compete in the consumer goods market as the Koreans and Chinese etc will make TVs cheaper (and good quality).

And I know this is a popular bandwagon but I do blame the banking system for much of this. In future let the banks loan as much as they like but make it quite clear that when it goes **** up they are on their own.

dl

Leslie

Hard to say about the full reasons for his actions, as you say time will tell.

On the whole it appears that we will be better off to stand back while they try to sort out the problem with the Euro. It is a poor currency to be in of course and I must say that we are lucky that Brown kept us out of it.

I still believe that we are better off maintaining our independence as a country. They will need our exports and we need to boost our manufacturing industry as a priority.

Les

Mick

iTrader: (1)

BBC is so biased it is unbelievable - I have been watching quite a bit of the coverage on BBC news channel - I wonder why I bother really - you don't get even coverage at all

In answer to the question - Cameron did what he had to do! Good surprisingly! He's stuffed his big EU pension opportunity now!!!

What I find really difficult to cope with is that 1 man in a meeting has that option to take us in - or out, and whether we sack him afterwards the comittment would have been made

Mick

iTrader: (1)

They just do it by the back door - by wrapping us up in a million of their own complex laws, taking over our 'real government' ( have you noticed how every party elected turns out to be exactly the same as the last one?) They wrap us up in 'Carbon taxes' in a climate that is cooling...

Other groups try to take over by coming to our country, bringing in more of their people as marriage partners, having way more numbers of children than average population here etc...

Great article by Lord Monckton here on wattsupwiththat website... http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/0...ou/#more-52760

David Lock

Do you mean Bollox?

Well let's hope not like the people of Chechnya when they were invaded by the Russian Federation in 1999.

dl

GlesgaKiss

Free trade.

How proactive do you need to actually be to allow that?

And Switzerland... suffering badly. Look at the country we live in ffs, and then look at Switzerland. It's still no proof of anything either way, but it just shows what a load of nonsense the political rhetoric actually is - i.e. that, by not submitting to the will of Europe, the well-being of a country will be adversely affected.

I mean, this is cloud cuckoo land stuff. They want to harmonise the 'regulation' of trade, red tape and the like, to improve our economies. It's bordering on the farcical, only it won't be in any way funny.

On the news last night they were talking about Europe's low growth with some EU bureaucrat. The same guy then went on to criticise the rest of the world for their stance on some climate change treaty! I thought "Is this crack pot operating on the same planet as the rest of us?" There must be some reason he's blinded to reality!? It seems to be a problem a lot of them have.

Someone should have thought to tell him that perhaps the reason the rest of the world is managing to 'grow' is because they're not bogging themselves down with regulations and the like from 'climate change treaties'.

This is the Europe and the kind of people we'd be run by. What an inviting prospect...

JTaylor

It's a tough one, isn't it? The ancients simply put it down to the hand of Providence. Complete head doer.

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

Pegging their currency to the Euro does not seem such a bright idea at the minute. Still if the Euro tanks and metal prices shoot through the roof they have plenty of **** gold left

boomer

...that assumes that you think that the Russian Federation is "civilised"!!

mb

Leslie

Don't understand how anyone can trust the abilities of those running the EU after the example we have seen so far.

We have to remember their ultimate ambition which is at the heart of all their decisions and is more important than individual countries, they idea of which they hate anyway.

Far better that we run our own country as we think is best for us instead of having to accept initiatives which put us on the back foot. We can still trade with them, as long as their empire has not collapsed of course, but at least it is far less likely to take us with them.

Yes I hope they save the Euro of course for the obvious reasons and to get them out of the hole they have dug for themselves. But I don't support the idea of us paying for their mistakes.

Les

jonc

Quite, like when Darling signed us up to the Euro bailout plan after his party lost the election.

apples24

iTrader: (1)

so were do we stand with eu's other ways in other words immigration within the eu etc

kingofturds

iTrader: (1)

The bbc does seem less than impartial, I wonder if it's because they have received European funding in the past.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well having read all the analysis and let this sink in I still can't decide whether it's a good thing or not. On the one hand, and as somone else put it, maybe we have given away our ticket for the Titanic so whatever happens to us it can't be as bad as being sucked in to the eventual collapse of the Euro or if it succeeds a more or less federal Europe. On the other have we really just isolated ourselves from our biggest market... we won't know what that means for us exactly until the next few years go by and we see what the ramiifications of this are. The thing is the collapse of the Euro will affect us greatly anyway so what have we really gained? We control our own destiny to an extent, but have no say in that of our biggest market... Hmmmm.

On balance I actually wonder whether we would have been better trying to carry on sitting on the fence, but maybe that wasn't possible.

Examing Cameron's motivation for what he said I can't help but feel that agreeing to sign up to any new treaties (and let's remember there is nothing new to sign up to right now... it's all just conjecture) would have brought him a massive revolt within his own party and may have ended up costing him the leadership....and he wouldn't want that would he now?

Nimbus

This is truly scary....

stilover

Whether we are in the Eurozone or out of it, we will still trade with Europe, just like we do now. Nothing will change in that aspect.

Remember when the Euro came out. All these people were saying that if Britain didn't sign up and ditch the Pound, we'd suffer. We'd be left behind the rest of Europe and as Europe prospered we'd be left behind.

Didn't quite work out that way did it.

Best thing Cameron can do is let the public decide if we agree with him or not. Give us a referendum. He should know by now most of Britain would support him.

The only thing to be wary of is all the scaremonger stories for Labour and Lib dems saying we'll be doomed.

David Lock

Now if Greece collapses and Italy is on the brink then the "17" might decide to bail out the banks thus avoiding disaster. But what if they say "well sod the British banks we're buggered if we are going to help them out". So British banks would take a big hit and a really big hit if Ireland goes down the pan - perhaps because new fiscal rules mean there is no advantage in companies moving to Ireland. I am sure they could ensure that their own banks working in London would be "looked after".

I think this could backfire on Cameron.

dl

Leslie

It will certainly backfire on the Eu!

Les

Nimbus

So what is the chance that the Euro will collapse as some where saying it would before this "accord" was reached? I don't see anything in the news that it's still in danger. Has the disaster been averted now?

Luan Pra bang

I do not think he went far enough, a few choice words from cameron could destroy the euro, he knows it they know it so its time to push for real concessions for britan on cap and immigtation. We may lose out a little if the euro fails but not as much as france and gernany will . The eu was anti british from its inception, now Germany and her bitch france are at camerons mercy if he shows some bollocks and pushes his advantage.

jonc

Britain has too much debt tied into the Euro, so it would be in Britain's best interest for it not to fail. However, Britain cannot keep throwing money into the EU to prop up the currency at the cost to the only thing that is keeping our country’s head above the water, ie, the financial services industry. Whether you like it or not the financial services industry makes up 77% of our GDP with 80% of our workforce in this sector. Should Cameron just hand over power to a Eurocrat in Frankfurt/Brussels to govern and impose further taxation and policies on this sector that is keeping this country afloat? These policies would undoubtedly be in the interest of the Euro first and foremost whilst the needs of Britain will come secondary. The financial transaction tax would hit the UK the hardest of all those in the EU and would make Britain uncompetitive and could result in foreign investment and business leaving our shores in droves.

On the other hand should the Euro recover then Britain will have no share of the pie, but with the Greek, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese economies on the ropes, how likely is that when they still think they don't have to pay tax and are able to retire at 50 to live off a very generous state funded pension. If the Euro fails, I can see these counties laying the blame on our doorstep. Then it may be time to shore up our economy and batten down the hatches.

paulr

Serbia?

paulr

The Euro will survive. For it not to would be economic armegeddon for Europe and the UK.