Cameron's veto - good or bad?
 

Cameron has decided to exempt the UK from any EU treaty changes to tackle the Eurozone crisis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16104275

Does this leave us in the slow lane, or will it prove to be a master stroke? Or is it time to come out of the EU altogether?

Your views.

To put things into more perspective ... http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/201...ew-points.html ...


It's all smoke n mirrors for us plebs. Sarko is livid 'cos the French banks are about to go down the pan and the German economy, reliant on exports to the US and China which are drying up as they've no money either, is a lot worse off than most believe. Shoot the feckin' lot would be my proposal (politicians that is) .... :thumb:

Dave

Ah - the Clarkson solution :thumb:

dl

I'm in the same boat as you, f1. Thought about it, thought about it some more, had some breakfast, thought about it and I'm still undecided and I was undecided before he went it. There are equally compelling arguments from both the 'skeptics and the 'philes. In a nutshell, I want to have my cake and eat it - I want the best outcome for Britain and Europe, but it would seem they're mutually exclusive whilst Britain's not fully committed to the project. Hindsight will draw-out the visionaries, I'm sure.

I think this the first decision by Cameron that I actually agree with.

Yep, that is exactly where I am.... just can't decided whether it's the right thing or not. The one thing I will say is at least Cameron has stated an intent... Brown would still have been mumbling to himself in the corner trying to be all things to all people and failing on all fronts.

Im just pleased Cameron made a decision as said above. Brown wouldnt have a clue whats hes doing. I think its the right decision personally

I think part of the EU's plan was to have a transaction tax that would have effected us badly. The financial institutions in London contribute over £54 Billion into the Uk economy. Having a transaction tax could mean big companies leaving London thus leaving us with a financial hole. This would then result in raised taxes for us all to plug the tax hole.

Good on Cameron. Brown would have rolled over and signed up.

Hmmm, I reckon that, like most decisions of this kind, there will be good and bad.

A previous government opted us out of the European directive on the working week.

This has left some people being "allowed" to work horrendously long hours in the runup to Christmas, sometimes up to a 100 hour working week, including weekends, for which they are paid...........time and a third every hour over 40. Satrurdays and Sundays included.:(

And meanwhile, their ultimate boss has just bought his sixth genuine Van Gogh.

When I asked one of them about his family and Christmas, he smiled, grimly and said, "Haven't seen my family for weeks. What's Christmas?"

So..........good or bad? I can see some people being able to keep, or rake in more, money, while the little people...........well, who are they anyway?

Have to say I'm well pleased.... but then again, i work in the city. ;)

At the end of the day, if it had come into place all that would happen is the big players (and also the company i work for - the main man has already publicly stated this in the press) would just up sticks and move elsewhere, thereby depriving the government coffers of the huge amount of revenue they pay in at the moment!

I'm sure its very complicated but my simple analysis is the Eurozone has to pay off its debts, this needs growth - as far as I can see there is too much debt and too many weak members to generate the overall growth required. All these proposed treaty changes is just prolonging the demise, so its not on 'our watch' when it goes tits up.

David Milliband tweeted that Cameron had jumped off the EU supertanker and is in a row boat with Hungry - well if that supertanker is heading for a large waterfall its very hard to stop and steer clear!

Or, an alternative anaology but still on a nautical theme, from Guido's blog:




Dave

Last job in the world id like to have right now

Milliband :lol1:

If Cameron went the other way he'd say it was wrong.

Yes. Said that to the missus last night. Apparently, Major was so nervous when in the same position over Maastricht, that he quite literally hid Sir John Kerr under the negotiating table to assist with his decisions. A huge responsibility and a nigh-on impossible conundrum - I wish Cameron well and hope that history is kind to him.

Only time will tell if it was good /bad.

Personally I feel he's made the best choice.

Article in The Independent today saying that we should join the Euro :mad:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...t-6274279.html

At least Brown didn't take us in :notworthy

Quite frankly I'm pleased the decision was made with apparent authority. That positive/assertive approach hasn't been seen for years.

:thumb: Basically said, thanks but no thanks, sod you lot.

The worse thing about it, hes fcuked us up for next years Eurovision Song Contest

Reuters are reporting that nine other countries have joined the Eurozone in creating a new treaty, so we are the only ones left out.

:lol: We fecked that over after the Yuogoslavia conflict..... hahahahaha

We best off leaving them to it IMHO - the Missing the Titanic analogy was bob on....

You will never get 17 countrys with wildly different outputs, taxes, & people to work under a single currency..... not without 'one country to rule them all'..... and I'll leave it for you to guess who that is ;)

Good on him, the Guy's got Balls (no pun intended)

Personally i think he should have added..

"And whilst i am making our stance known,, i wish to make clear you can stick the euro where the sun dont shine, and with immidiate effect we resign from being a memeber of the EU, its your mess you created, you can sort it out amoingst yourselves....and we aint bailing you out ever again"

Mart :D:D

To be honest, I'm none the wiser, on one hand we've not let another country dictate our country's economic policy and decision making, on the other, we'll be out of the loop on all economic policies set in the Eurozone, both of which could have serious consequences to our economy and trade with European partners. But seeing as Britain is one of the biggest financial hubs in the world, I imagine that the Eurozone needs us more than we need them. In the least he's shown he has balls (unlike Miliband) and won't be pushed around. A leader should stand by their decision, whether right or wrong, but a good leader will make best of whatever decision is made. Only time will tell if this was the right decision.

But under the treaty signed by Alastair Darling, he would find that rather difficult to implement.

We are tied to helping the € out.........but no reverse help will be forthcoming should the £ tank.:mad:

I actually agree with the principle of The Tobin Tax, but it just so happens that when the roles were dished-out back in the seventies, France took agriculture, Germany manufacturing and Britain financial services. If the banks are saying they'll ship out if we sign-up, we're left without our sector and by extension so too would Europe.* The flip-side of not signing-up is that we protect a sector that not only put Europe and the World in this position in the first place, but which is now holding Britain to ransom and compromising our relationship with our cousins across the channel.

Then there's the domestic realpolitik to consider: The little-Englander mentality which appears to account for a significant block of voters, the Europhile block who are fewer but influential, the Tory backbenchers who seem unable to discuss Europe without shouting "Sovereignty" every other word and threatening a revolt. Then there's Team Refer-feckin'-rendum and the risk to the coalition and so on and so on. Very difficult.

I'm thinking out loud, but I imagine, on balance, Cameron needs to protect Britain's interests which means protecting the FS sector. The right thing to do with regards to the big picture would be the wrong thing for Britain in the short-term and the wrong move in this climate will clearly spell disaster. I guess the lesser of two evils is to look after no.1 and hope that Europe can learn to forgive us a decade or five down the line.

* If we signed-up to The Tobin Tax and the FS sector shipped-out of Europe, there wouldn't be much to tax, would there? Trout, Alloy, GK et al. How would that work?

Quoted for posterity, you actually said something positive about Cameron for the first time, if indirectly. :lol1:

You can say all you like about Browns ability; if it wasn't for him, we'd be in the Euro right now - a scarey thought:eek:

I'm quite proud of Dave :) The Thatcher in him is getting stronger? Or maybe I'm just dreaming.