Dingdongler

Yes and no. Though I agree it takes money to pay of all these things you'll find that people like Hodgy and me (and lots of other parents) actually forgo many of lifes luxuries to pay for things like this.

If we weren't spending large amounts of money nurturing the kids we then would really be able to afford what I call luxuries ie flash cars, more holidays etc.

As I said my school fees alone are £4k/term/child (have two) and that doesn't include uniforms, trips, extra classes etc.

To me it is a necessity and I would carry on paying it even if my income dropped drastically. The new bmw would get traded in for a banger and I'd start shopping at Lidl and cancel all holidays

hodgy0_2

And I would strongly argue they are necessities, equipping your children with the skills to prosper in the years to come is pretty important (strong music skills for instance, are going to be an easy differentiator when applying for a tier one university, when everyone has 4 A*,s)

I am not sure people quite realise how hard it is now going to be, incomes in real terms, for the poor will fall off a cliff, incomes for the “middle class” will never recover,

Forget arguing about council worker earning 13K (the cost of a half decent skiing holiday btw), with “gold plated” pensions of 4K a year

The financial health and security of the wealthy are going to have to be paid for by financial misery of the poor and the financial stagnation of the “middle class”

the basics like food and fuel will begin to take an ever increasing % of a persons wages

That’s how it is going to be – your are either a winner or a looser

davyboy

I've been on a few ski holidays lately, and not spent 13k yet.

1k per person I'd say was pretty normal.

hodgy0_2

i was being slightly facetious, but quite a few people spend that sort of money

we don't, but taking 5 people is still quite expensive

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

I'm not sure that this is the way it will work in future, my daughter was not privately educated but still got her 4 A's (no A*s when she did them) she got an interview at Oxford (didn't get a place mainly because she got NO coaching for the interview whatsoever which she doubtless would have done had she been at a private school) but she did still end up at Edinburgh. A client's daughter, the same age but at Hill's Road (which I am sure you will be aware of ) with the same qualifications etc. applied to both Oxford and Edinburgh and didn't get the Oxford interview or place at Edinburgh.

The difference? Possibly had something to do with the fact that my daughter's school was in special measures at the time and has only ever had one person go to Cambridge or Oxford. I do appreciate that a good private education will help but it is not the be all and end all and sometimes achievement without the benefit of a exceptional school (private or state) will possibly stand out more.

Edit : Just to say she could probably have got a place at Hills Road (we are just about in Cambs) but she didn't want to spend 3 hours a day getting to and from school and leaving the friends she had gone through school with.

hodgy0_2

i would agree with your points RJMS,

my children do not go to private school btw

but hopefully they will go to Hills Road -- (which as you undoubtedly know, has one of the highest entrants to Oxbridge outside the private sector)

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

Even including the private sector

hodgy0_2

quite

and forgot to say well done to your daughter

we need to build a true meritocracy in this country and need more people like her

Galifrey

iTrader: (3)

In fairness, the strong music skills aren't half as good as having done voluntary work, or having some experience of working in the field you are hoping to study at university, ie working in a care home or hospital when applying to study medicine (as my son is doing in his gap year as a result of his Cambridge admission interview).

Social activities with leadership involved are also useful, class president, school commitee involvement all things that don't require money throwing at them but show the caliber of the person they are taking on.

I think your post is pretty much "on the money" the gap between the wealthiest and the poorest is getting wider all the time. With neccessities including housing becoming a larger proportion of poorer peoples income all the time, it isn't all about hard work either no matter how much the wealthy believe it to be so.

My son was lucky enough to gain an academic scholarship for his education, his sisters were not so "gifted" and have remained in state education.

hodgy0_2

on that note Galifrey, my eldest daughter is doing the D of E awards and has alreday completed her bronze

and yep, the wealth gap will get wider and any sense of social mobility will pretty much vanish

and i do use musicality has an example -- the point it is going to get ever more competitive, with a winner takes all culture

Galifrey

iTrader: (3)

Good for her, you must be well proud, and yes, I saw it was an example, I just added to your point, singing ina school choir can also be good and doesn't require funds for an instrument

hodgy0_2

my eldest son sings for Jesus College Choir as a choirestor

they have just released a CD of xmass music

and as I walk him through the fantastic grounds to the chapel -- I often joke that "this is first prize, if you work hard and one day

i will take you to loughborough and show you what second prize looks like"

i sound like a pushy parent, when the reality is vry different, I just believe in education and trying to give my children the best chances in life

Galifrey

iTrader: (3)

Dingdongler

I absolutely agree that a private education is a gaurantee of nothing and kids can get to the very top of their game via the state system. Children such as yours and Hodgy's are an example of this, well done to both of you.

If there had been a good state school close to me I would have sent my kids there. There is a nationally renowned girls grammar five minutes walk from my house, but my wife managed to produce two boys instead

Leslie

They always said that it is down to the father to produce a girl.

Les

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

This is the whole problem - children can sometimes do well at state school, but it requires the coming together of so many elements at the right time.
The quality of the teaching staff, the pupils your son or daughter shares a classroom with, the facilities available, etc.

If your child goes to a school in a deprived area, and the majority of his or her classmates are not predisposed to learning I'm afraid that that child is going to find it extremely difficult to do well, regardless of how intelligent they are.

Whilst I personally was sent to private school and hated the snobbishness of many of the pupils who went, many of whom came from backgrounds far better off than my own, I can easily see why my parents chose to send me to private school - because where we lived, the schools weren't exactly churning out Oxford and Cambridge students in their hundreds.

However, this is a little off topic to say the least.
I think the point that should be made is that sending your children to private school is a lifestyle choice - in exactly the same way that having children is! That's a very simplistic, yet accurate way of looking at it.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

I saw this and thought HOW!?
Do you have someone living in the house all day, because that figure you've quoted for gas electric is nearly triple what I pay a month in a 4 bed house (I pay £20 a month electric, and £32 a month gas).

120 for water, TV home insurance and BT seems like quite a lot.
You don't say if you're on a water meter, or whether you have movies, broadband etc.
My home insurance is about £18 a month, SKY phone, internet and TV is £38, and water is about £20, so again, you're about £45 a month dearer than me.

400-500 on food a month is also a lot too, but without knowing your circumstances I'd assume you have several children, or like takeaway .

I suspect you could still bring these figures down if you shopped around and budgeted (assuming you want to!), but please understand I'm not having a go here as I don't know your circumstances - just seems like you might be paying over the odds.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

In the winter months it costs me about £60 a month for electric and £80-90 for gas. This is for a 1910 3 bedroom mid-terrace house with solid walls but loft insulation. Heating is crap which doesn't help! I'd love to know how folk have it so cheap!!

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Bloody hell mate, that's bonkers.
My house is only 5 years old, but tbh it's frigging freezing a lot of the time, so I spend much of winter with the heating going constantly and an electric fire going too!

Therefore, the only things I can put the cheap price down to is:
1. New gas boiler with an energy rating of A

2. Only having hot water on for 30 mins in the morning, same in evening - usually enough for 2 people to shower, and wash up. I also only run the heating when I have to - it's only gone on on an every day basis in the last 4 weeks. I run it for about an hour in the morning and about an hour and a half in the evening (and more at the weekends when I'm in and it starts getting cold!)

3. Good loft insulation. My downstairs is bloody freezing because some numpty in the government decided during the 5 years in which my house was built that cavity walls didn't need insulating - apparently this decision has since been reversed because it was STUPID!

4. Low energy lighting in about 3/4 of the rooms (although I have 400w of spotlights in the kitchen which counteracts it )

Trout

iTrader: (1)

We spend a very scary amount on electricity and heating

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

WTF??? Yes you are right, you will only own a house when your folks pass away, but it is only through your own fault!

CREWJ

I don't pay bills

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I think the problem is when your circumstances change and you cant afford it any more, it would be a difficult decision to make to take your kids from their school but if you cant afford it, you cant, my kids dont do that much but it can end up costing quite a lot when they do, we have given them music lessons and all that but nobody has capitalised on it, I basically said I wouldn't pay for it after a year as we kept moaning at them to practice, never touching a guitar between lessons does not make me want to pay for them, if they were really into it I wouldn't mind at all.

As for private school, no it isn't essential by any stretch, my in laws kind of decreed ours were going, wasn't going to argue really as its a good opportunity but then would 50/60k into their bank account as a start have been more use, who can say ?

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

My reasoning would be (and possibly the same goes for said in-laws) that the fee's for private School would return more than the hypothetical £50-60k in increased success/wages in future years as a result of better education?

Or am I wide of the mark here Mark?




You are called mark aren't you?

EddScott

Our MD put all three of his children through private education and none of them have really amounted to anything special. They all tried Uni, 2 of them did their first year, twice. The youngest managed to get a 2:1 - he works for about 6 months a year in Canada as a skiing instuctor. The girl has shacked up with one of the local pub landlords and is pulling pints and the eldest (and by far the most friendly) has his own mobile catering business. His food is lovely but at the end of the day an expensive education hasn't really equated to their careers.

I was in private education till 10 when my parents split. Its a big shock going from one environment to the other and I never really blended in.

Guy I work with has 4 children at the local private school. It should £32K for all 4 for the year. He owed then about £15K in unpaid fees and I think borrowed off his brother £5K to pay some of last year and have the school keep them on for another year. He only earns £1K a month (at the moment) and his estranged wife is fairly useless and has apparently managed to crack 6 figures on credit cards. He has a massive estate in Italy but its all falling apart and he can't sell it. It has it's own road through the estate but the road has eroded and you need a 4X4 to get to the main house.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Bloody hell - sounds like your mate is the classic example of someone who is incapable of living their means.

Why is it that some people seem to think the "only spend what you can afford" rule doesn't apply to them, and then it's those same people who run blabbing to the press and any other sucker who'll listen, telling them "it's unfair" and "it wasn't my fault - I shouldn't have been allowed to do it".
Well guess what people, life's not fair!

Sorry Edd, whilst I know not all of that might apply to your mate, the general principle applies to far too many sadly.

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

The thing is circumstances can change so what may have been affordable at one point suddenly is no longer so. I've always been pretty conservative (with a small c ) so am very wary of taking on any debts that may become unaffordable. (I'm self employed my income can fluctuate considerably).

Other people are live more for the moment and in many cases that will not cause a problem however redundancy or health problems can suddenly make things that were previously easily affordable.

As it turns out I could probably have put my kids through private 6th form education but having been forced by my father's circumstance to move from a top Grammar school in Essex (state not private) to a comprehensive near Cambridge at the age of 14 and hence knowing how difficult it was I was not prepared to take the chance and end up with my kids being in the same situation.

Luan Pra bang

Strangley i have no problem with the idea of my son going to a state school but my daughter no chance. She will be going to the same all girls school my sister went to. I would never want my daughter (expected in january) mixing with council estate chavs.

EddScott

That could come round to bite you. Mixing with all sorts of people provides children with the skills to deal with people in the adult world.

From experience girls from an all girls school tend to be far more wild than in mixed schools.

My daughter is in mixed and the school catchment area does take in the local council estate. At first you'd think it would a big mistake letting them go there but because the catchment area isn't great they put more adept teachers in there. The head is considered one of the best in the county and is often posted to other primaries that are currently struggling.

From seeing kids go through both systems and getting to the stage of employment, just as many private school kids seem as unemployable as public school kids. Plus most of the private kids have an alarming amount of emotional baggage.

It definately gives the kids a better chance but doesn't guarantee success.

Luan Pra bang

I agree that the ability to deal with all kinds of different people is important for success in life, thats why I will be happy for my son to go to a comprehensive. I would like to give my daughter a chance of being refined and having good taste and being around chavvy Jordan worshipers decended from benefit scroungers is not the way to achieve that.