pslewis

Well, actually ... me!

I have been involved in Education longer than you have been alive!

EH? You telling me that's a job? Good God I do that as a hobby after my proper job

TinyTim

iTrader: (3)

Excellent. Avoiding my question, making rediculous judgements on my age, still no valid points and still pigeon-hole'ing teachers. True colours shown.

My work here is done.

jonc

What do you propose the Government do instead to address the current £30bn pension deficit? Consider that:

1. There has been a massive growth in the public sector workforce in the past decade.

2. People are living longer with average life expectancy of early to mid eighties for both men and women meaning that pensions will have to continue paying out for 20 to 25 years after retiring at 60.

3. Currently, contributions from public sector employees do not cover the full cost of these schemes and falling short by £10bn a year which is current paid for by the taxpayer and this deficit is set to increase if there is no change.

Are you honestly suggesting that the Government do nothing and to leave the public sector pension as it is and let many low paid private sector employees, who don't have pensions of their own, continue to subsidise the public sector final salary pensions?

I'm hearing a lot of "don't touch our pensions", which is understandable, but nothing to address the £30bn public sector pension deficit.

TinyTim

iTrader: (3)

I think you're missing the point, arent we scapegoating teachers here? They're all to blame after all...


Here's a crazy *** idea.... let ALL those people out there who work hard and pay tax fight for what they think is right, and the government can punish those to blame...

jonc

The taxpayers and I mean the real tax payers are fighting for what they think is right, which is why you will find there is little support or sympathy from the private sector. They don't think it's fair that each and every private sector employee should pay what amounts to nearly £1600 a year to pay for the £30bn public sector pension black hole and also why they are paying 11% National Insurance when public sector employee pay only 9.4%. So what do you think the Government should do instead?

tony de wonderful

Labour made the public sector a kind of welfare device a) to shore up their support and b) to reduce the number of unemployed.

Teachers etc and Doctors did very well out of this indeed, as well as council management etc who drew huge salaries as 'executives' and had a license to spunk money on anything and everything.

It all worked during the 'boom' though.


What I find funny is that pslewis (a massive Labour supporter) should be on here slagging off pay and conditions his beloved party created.

tony de wonderful

Labour made the public sector a kind of welfare device a) to shore up their support and b) to reduce the number of unemployed.

Teachers etc and Doctors did very well out of this indeed, as well as council management etc who drew huge salaries as 'executives' and had a license to spunk money on anything and everything.

It all worked during the 'boom' though.


What I find funny is that pslewis (a massive Labour supporter) should be on here slagging off pay and conditions his beloved party created.

pslewis

I never was a massive Labour supporter .... as I made clear, Labour sailed my Pension down the river!!

pslewis

It's RIDICULOUS - not REDICULOUS .... just one pointer which tells me you are in your early 20's.

The grammar and content also points to about 21 years of age .....

I am very close, aren't I?

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Quoting for reference - I do actually think reality cracked slightly there.

pslewis

You get back to your Bike Cam ....

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Getting back to the OP......

Why should teachers pre 2007 get 75% of their salary as a pension for working 30 years while NHS workers get 50% of their salary for working 40 years........

NHS workers have to work 10 years longer to get 25% less pension.

Tinytim....how is that fair ?

Shaun

pslewis

It's not fair ...

Teachers really are one of those sanctimonious occupations who think they deserve much better than the rest of us!

Well, I've got news for them - as long as it is the average man/woman in the street who are paying their fat wages, paying their fatter Pensions and allowing them 12 weeks holiday then you stop bleating and moaning!

Leslie

I don't actually think there was a boom anyway. They were overborrowing month after month and using that money to make it look like a boom although we were actually increasing the national debt out of sight!

Just the job to keep them winning elections of course until their last PM and the true story about the country's finances came to light. Frantic efforts to blame it all on the recession dont work, especially since they did nothing to regulate the bank's shameful fiddling which was at the heart of the recession of course.

I cannot believe PSL saying what he just has about his blazing support for Labour during their years in power. Mind you, he will say the same about my political beliefs regardless of the fact that I have said before that I am apolitical.

At the moment I am not impressed!

Les

lillypop#1

have you any idea the amount of hours it takes teachers to write reports for parents to read about their children? or how long it takes to plan a lesson? Of course a lesson plan cannot last years when the curriculum is being changed and the government are implementing 'new and improved ways to develop learning' every few months.

My mother is a teacher, she has worked hard for 25 years as a teacher, and it now being told that she will need to work another 20 years before she might be able to retire and with their pension plans being reduced the way they are she'll barely have anything for her 45 years of work.

Teachers do not get paid overtime, yet every Sunday my mother sits at the dining room table and works for hours planning lessons and also a lot of times she doesn't get home from work until 6pm at night due to the work she has to complete after the school day has finished, do you think a child's book gets marked by magic? or the their test papers?

Also there's new ideas being discussed in government about teachers having to do mandatory summer schools during the summer holidays, so don't get on your high horse about that either as teachers may soon have to pay for childcare for their own children while they are out, teaching and looking after other people's.

Another thing, worth mentioning, a lot of teachers have lost their jobs recently, due to the cuts government have made in the education sector. Which has meant that the teachers who have been fortunate to keep their jobs, now have to have a larger number of children in their classes, which means that they are under huge pressures at work. You imagine trying to control 30 or more children, let alone having to teach them things at the same time.

Have you also heard about their pay freeze which is going to last at least two years if not longer? With the ideas and plans the government have in place to do with education my mum could end up having the same take home pay as a train driver in the next few years.

All they're doing is a strike for one day. I personally believe they are entitled to it.

tony de wonderful

Tough.

lillypop#1

Yeah it is tough. Its also unreasonable...that's why they're striking

tony de wonderful

Having to retire at the same age as other Workers is unreasonable?

Looks like the Teachers are striking, just said in Sky.

TinyTim

iTrader: (3)

And bloody good on them! We'd all be speaking ze German if we had your attitude

pslewis

You are speaking on behalf of your Mum, so don't really have any idea what you are talking about ..... just what you see your Mum doing and talking about.

Let me put you straight on a few things - just so that you get both sides of the debate.

Teachers are contracted to work 26 hours a week, that is their directed time - most other workers have to work a directed time of 40 hours per week!

Within those 26 hours Teachers have allocated time for marking and suchlike - if they are bad at Time Management then that is no reason for requesting sympathy here.

All, yes ALL, of your Mothers entitlement will be paid under the old rules - that's 25 years worth!! Not bad at all I would suggest? She is close to the magic 30 years at which point she is entitled to 75% of her final salary! Quite a fantastic package I'm sure you would agree?

Considering your Mum must have started Teaching at age 23 (the very youngest she could have in the mid 80's) .... she has done 25 years, making her 48 now (sorry, Mum!). The suggestion is that they work till 66, thats 18 years left - not the 20 you claim.

But, please bear in mind that your Mum can draw her current Pension of 75% of her Salary within 10 years!! ..... so, given her pay of around £50,000 - she will be on 75% of this in 10 years = £37,500. If she continues to work she will receive this PLUS her £50,000 a year until the new retirement age.

That's £87,500 a year!! I'm sure everyone reading this who pay Teachers huge wages and also fund their lavish Pension will think that a very reasonable remuneration!!

How is that barely having anything?

Your Mum does that because she doesn't do it in her 26 directed hours ...... I note that she has work that she does after work, that tells me she is a Head of Department or Head of House or part of the SLT.

You may not be aware that a lot of people do not get paid overtime - I don't for one!! They also don't get 12 weeks holiday like Teachers do!!

I'm sure every Lollipop lady, every Binman, every Cashier, every shelf stacker and every Factory worker (who pay Teachers wages) have their hearts bleeding that Teachers may have to work the same hours and weeks that they do!!!

Not one was Compulsary!!! These Teachers VOLUNTEERED to go - the payoff was so huge, so rewarding, so outrageously expensive to the normal taxpayers!!

So, forgive me if I don't cry for them!!

Train Drivers get £55,000 a year ..... so, again, my heart won't bleed.

PLUS, your Mum along with ALL other Teachers will get a 7.5% Pay Increment in September - they get this EVERY September ................ all we have asked is that they don't get TWO payrises this year and next!!

The workers who are paying the vast Teachers wages are suffering a REAL pay freeze .... as they have no ancient Pay Spines to climb up automatically!!!

I will repeat that for everyone - Teachers will get a 7.5% Pay hike up their scales in September ............. anyone else getting 7.5% Pay rise?

The children are entitled to an education on that day - that's what!!!!

It is un-professional, un-ethical, not needed and a disgraceful waste of a childs life!!

Teachers get all up their ***** about parents taking their kids out of school .... and here they are, taking all of the children in the land out of school !!!!

In our single school, 1100 school days will be lost on Thursday and that is a disgrace - those who strike should be Sacked IMO!!!

Let your Mum see this and ask her to refute any of it!

tony de wonderful

Why are Teachers special though? Why should they retire earlier than say minimum wage workers at Tesco?

tony de wonderful

It makes my blood boil!

The Gov really needs to go to war with these unions and sort them out.

jonc

Pretty much could have been when I was at school with our Gestapo Head of School and his subordinates who had a propensity for dishing out detention and projecting blackboard rubber at high velocity with unnatural accuracy. Taught me a thing or two, none of the namby-pamby education of today.

pslewis

Teachers up and down the land STILL drink alcohol on school premises - I think this is a disgrace!

stilover

Let me give you some insight to the real word. I work in the Private sector, Construction to be precise. I have not had a pay rise in the last 3 years. I took a pay cut last year. I will not be receiving a pay rise for probably the next few years.

I won't retire on 75% of my salary. I'll be lucky to receive 10% the way it's going.

And what about people who work in the private sector who have children? What are they supposed to do on Thursday? Stay off work to look after their children?
Then what? Firstly, they won't get paid. Secondly, many employers will not be happy that half their workforce is off due to some teachers crying about having to work till the rest of us have to. So what then? Maybe disciplinary measure will be taken by the employer against the employee. How fair is that?

Get child care I hear you shout. Really? Don't they already pay that to teachers to look after their children through the day? So now they have to pay twice. Only how many low income families can afford to pay for child care? Not many.

Of course the teachers should strike. Not like it doesn't affect everybody else. Selfish tw.ats.

DYK

Is that where Teacher's whisky came from
I always had Toast and coffee breath in my face..

Daryl

So you failed all of your spelling tests at school and have never forgiven the teacher - explains a lot!

pslewis

EH?

'O' I see now

lillypop#1

I didn't say having to retire at an older age was unreasonable, but i do think that having a pension cut when working on a salary that is already low, is unreasonable.