Israel thread
13 May 2011, 06:25 PM
#122
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No it wasn't. Romans had household altars to pray and sacrifice to, Bronze Age European Pagans STRESSED the individual's connections with their Gods - there was a religious caste, but they only acted in the same way that modern day Priests do.
To the early religions their Gods were all around them, day to day. Christianity was a bit of a 'johnny-come-lately' to the idea if you ask me
To the early religions their Gods were all around them, day to day. Christianity was a bit of a 'johnny-come-lately' to the idea if you ask me
Monotheism, specifically Christian monotheism was quite unique.
13 May 2011, 06:54 PM
#123
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Ok, I'm going to take a gamble, here. Please don't react emotionally, this is part of the dialectic.
Given that Tony is defending Israel and, by default, the Jewish people, why is it acceptable to use the German language to tease him? We've just had a coversation about **** Germany, where 6 million Jews were eliminated, systematically, in an attempt to extirpate the oldest, most persecuted ethnoreligious group on the planet.
Tony's style of debate may annoy you, the way he ducks and dives, but we're all guilty of that at times. I'm just asking you to think whether it's fair to, on the one hand condemn his criticism of the 'persecuted' Palestinians and yet on the other engage in those kind of tactics.
@ Asif. Please don't react emotionally to this, I'm going to say the following to demonstrate flaws in the arguments on both sides:
I once asked you if the deliberate killing of Israeli civilians by Palestinian suicide murderers was acceptable - you eventually replied:
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...&postcount=298
It's worth noting that I had to ask the question 4 or 5 times before you responded. Most people don't like being asked awkward questions, including you, Asif. I've fallen out with all sorts of people on here defending Tony, and half the reason I've done it is because I think he makes many valid points. Sometimes he says things that his detractors use to try to hang him, but such is life. Sometimes he says things that are blatently stupid. Don't we all. The other reason is because he's absolutely in the minority (on here) when defending the state.
Please acknowledge this or refute it in a constructive way otherwise this little NSR conflict will go on and on and on, much like the Israel-Palestine horror show.
Given that Tony is defending Israel and, by default, the Jewish people, why is it acceptable to use the German language to tease him? We've just had a coversation about **** Germany, where 6 million Jews were eliminated, systematically, in an attempt to extirpate the oldest, most persecuted ethnoreligious group on the planet.
Tony's style of debate may annoy you, the way he ducks and dives, but we're all guilty of that at times. I'm just asking you to think whether it's fair to, on the one hand condemn his criticism of the 'persecuted' Palestinians and yet on the other engage in those kind of tactics.
@ Asif. Please don't react emotionally to this, I'm going to say the following to demonstrate flaws in the arguments on both sides:
I once asked you if the deliberate killing of Israeli civilians by Palestinian suicide murderers was acceptable - you eventually replied:
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...&postcount=298
It's worth noting that I had to ask the question 4 or 5 times before you responded. Most people don't like being asked awkward questions, including you, Asif. I've fallen out with all sorts of people on here defending Tony, and half the reason I've done it is because I think he makes many valid points. Sometimes he says things that his detractors use to try to hang him, but such is life. Sometimes he says things that are blatently stupid. Don't we all. The other reason is because he's absolutely in the minority (on here) when defending the state.
Please acknowledge this or refute it in a constructive way otherwise this little NSR conflict will go on and on and on, much like the Israel-Palestine horror show.
13 May 2011, 07:07 PM
#124
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Well if that is true (and that is a significant if) you would have to ask yourself why on a board predominantly made up of people of right wing views that would still be the case. Maybe they have a point!!!
Last edited by f1_fan; 13 May 2011 at 07:57 PM.
13 May 2011, 07:39 PM
#125
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Ok, I'm going to take a gamble, here. Please don't react emotionally, this is part of the dialectic.
Given that Tony is defending Israel and, by default, the Jewish people, why is it acceptable to use the German language to tease him? We've just had a coversation about **** Germany, where 6 million Jews were eliminated, systematically, in an attempt to extirpate the oldest, most persecuted ethnoreligious group on the planet.
Tony's style of debate may annoy you, the way he ducks and dives, but we're all guilty of that at times. I'm just asking you to think whether it's fair to, on the one hand condemn his criticism of the 'persecuted' Palestinians and yet on the other engage in those kind of tactics.
@ Asif. Please don't react emotionally to this, I'm going to say the following to demonstrate flaws in the arguments on both sides:
I once asked you if the deliberate killing of Israeli civilians by Palestinian suicide murderers was acceptable - you eventually replied:
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...&postcount=298
It's worth noting that I had to ask the question 4 or 5 times before you responded. Most people don't like being asked awkward questions, including you, Asif. I've fallen out with all sorts of people on here defending Tony, and half the reason I've done it is because I think he makes many valid points. Sometimes he says things that his detractors use to try to hang him, but such is life. Sometimes he says things that are blatently stupid. Don't we all. The other reason is because he's absolutely in the minority (on here) when defending the state.
Please acknowledge this or refute it in a constructive way otherwise this little NSR conflict will go on and on and on, much like the Israel-Palestine horror show.
Given that Tony is defending Israel and, by default, the Jewish people, why is it acceptable to use the German language to tease him? We've just had a coversation about **** Germany, where 6 million Jews were eliminated, systematically, in an attempt to extirpate the oldest, most persecuted ethnoreligious group on the planet.
Tony's style of debate may annoy you, the way he ducks and dives, but we're all guilty of that at times. I'm just asking you to think whether it's fair to, on the one hand condemn his criticism of the 'persecuted' Palestinians and yet on the other engage in those kind of tactics.
@ Asif. Please don't react emotionally to this, I'm going to say the following to demonstrate flaws in the arguments on both sides:
I once asked you if the deliberate killing of Israeli civilians by Palestinian suicide murderers was acceptable - you eventually replied:
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...&postcount=298
It's worth noting that I had to ask the question 4 or 5 times before you responded. Most people don't like being asked awkward questions, including you, Asif. I've fallen out with all sorts of people on here defending Tony, and half the reason I've done it is because I think he makes many valid points. Sometimes he says things that his detractors use to try to hang him, but such is life. Sometimes he says things that are blatently stupid. Don't we all. The other reason is because he's absolutely in the minority (on here) when defending the state.
Please acknowledge this or refute it in a constructive way otherwise this little NSR conflict will go on and on and on, much like the Israel-Palestine horror show.
I have no problem with anything you have typed, this is not the sort of thing that 'annoys' me.
Let's be careful when quoting things from the past, especially things said in anger. The reason I got annoyed about your question is because I have said many times how I abhor the killing of all innocent civilians. Therefore you should have already known the answer to your question.
I think you were asking it of someone else and they weren't answering either. If you ask me a sensible question, you will always get a sensible answer.
Tony does not do any of this. My experience of Zionists (and their supporters) is that they largely have no qualms with a problem being eradicated by killing everyone. Tony would appear to fit into that category, he hasn't denied it from what I can see. Do you REALLY wish to defend that standpoint James?
I have heard this many times from Zionists. I have NEVER heard a Muslim person say this.
Why would speaking in German be an issue for him? He is happy to 'joke' with people (like that watch thread) He says far worse things on here and stands by them.
As I have said before, he has no style of debate whatsoever. He makes the occasional valid point, far outweighed by everything else he spouts.
Speaking for myself only, I do not say stupid things on here, not without either a very valid reason, as I have stated above, or I have acknowledged it at the time as being either silly or stupid.
I am open to criticism and correction and if it is given in a constructive way, I generally respond positively. Do you recall my public apology to you and Tony a little while ago? (wish I could take back the one to Tony now!)
I hope this answers your question?
Why not let him defend himself though? He is perfectly able to do so, but likes to run away and hide after causing trouble I notice.
Asif
13 May 2011, 07:48 PM
#126
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Tony does not do any of this. My experience of Zionists (and their supporters) is that they largely have no qualms with a problem being eradicated by killing everyone. Tony would appear to fit into that category, he hasn't denied it from what I can see. Do you REALLY wish to defend that standpoint James?
13 May 2011, 08:04 PM
#127
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In answer to your question. First, you've haven't acknowledged if my post is true or not, which makes it difficult to guage your position. Let's take out the bracketed caveat and assume that I'm right and that Tony and I are in a tiny minority in the defence of Israel. Second, you go on to state that NSR is predominantly right-wing; I'd dispute this, I actually think there's a broad mix of political persuasions, so find it difficult to respond with this as a premise. Additionally, right-wing is obscure in the context of this discussion. There's the Christian-Right in the US who support Zionism, there's the Christian-Right who despise the Jews (Mel Gibson), then you have the extreme-right who are openly anti-Semetic (neo-*****), then you have the European Right who are split between supporting Israel because they are an enemy of 'Islam', or because they have a Judeo-Christian heritage or because they have a guilt complex around WW2 or because it suits them politically and economically to support an American 'friend'. Among the moderate right in this country there's some resentment that Israel's existence brings trouble to these shores and some support for the historical right of a Jewish state. So I can't, in good conscience, give a straight answer to your question, given the premise and the nuances.
What I would say however is that Tony and I have been branded as far-right, racist, bigoted, a word that sounds like James Blunt, chuckle brothers (I'm rather fond of that one), trolls, masturbators (fair one) and I personally have been subjected to a smear campaign, that I've been made aware of via PM. Tony had his personal details revealed in retaliation for his beliefs. And being annoying. Now, given that, if I were an observer, and broadly supported Israel, I'd probably let Tony and me do the graft and keep my head down. I can only speculate, but I can assure you that I've had messages of support from people who've not 'gone public'.
I could write an entire piece around the liberals who've co-opted the Islamist narrative and I could point out that the Jews are outnumbered by 1000-1. I could point out that the Palestinian propaganda machine is more potent than Israel's no-nonsense approach and so forth, but, I won't right now, as I'm going to eat my dinner.
13 May 2011, 08:32 PM
#128
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Ok, I'm not going to get in to bunfight with you here, f1, if you respond personally I'm not going to react, I'll simply ignore your post.
In answer to your question. First, you've haven't acknowledged if my post is true or not, which makes it difficult to guage your position. Let's take out the bracketed caveat and assume that I'm right and that Tony and I are in a tiny minority in the defence of Israel. Second, you go on to state that NSR is predominantly right-wing; I'd dispute this, I actually think there's a broad mix of political persuasions, so find it difficult to respond with this as a premise. Additionally, right-wing is obscure in the context of this discussion. There's the Christian-Right in the US who support Zionism, there's the Christian-Right who despise the Jews (Mel Gibson), then you have the extreme-right who are openly anti-Semetic (neo-*****), then you have the European Right who are split between supporting Israel because they are an enemy of 'Islam', or because they have a Judeo-Christian heritage or because they have a guilt complex around WW2 or because it suits them politically and economically to support an American 'friend'. Among the moderate right in this country there's some resentment that Israel's existence brings trouble to these shores and some support for the historical right of a Jewish state. So I can't, in good conscience, give a straight answer to your question, given the premise and the nuances.
What I would say however is that Tony and I have been branded as far-right, racist, bigoted, a word that sounds like James Blunt, chuckle brothers (I'm rather fond of that one), trolls, masturbators (fair one) and I personally have been subjected to a smear campaign, that I've been made aware of via PM. Tony had his personal details revealed in retaliation for his beliefs. And being annoying. Now, given that, if I were an observer, and broadly supported Israel, I'd probably let Tony and me do the graft and keep my head down. I can only speculate, but I can assure you that I've had messages of support from people who've not 'gone public'.
I could write an entire piece around the liberals who've co-opted the Islamist narrative and I could point out that the Jews are outnumbered by 1000-1. I could point out that the Palestinian propaganda machine is more potent than Israel's no-nonsense approach and so forth, but, I won't right now, as I'm going to eat my dinner.
In answer to your question. First, you've haven't acknowledged if my post is true or not, which makes it difficult to guage your position. Let's take out the bracketed caveat and assume that I'm right and that Tony and I are in a tiny minority in the defence of Israel. Second, you go on to state that NSR is predominantly right-wing; I'd dispute this, I actually think there's a broad mix of political persuasions, so find it difficult to respond with this as a premise. Additionally, right-wing is obscure in the context of this discussion. There's the Christian-Right in the US who support Zionism, there's the Christian-Right who despise the Jews (Mel Gibson), then you have the extreme-right who are openly anti-Semetic (neo-*****), then you have the European Right who are split between supporting Israel because they are an enemy of 'Islam', or because they have a Judeo-Christian heritage or because they have a guilt complex around WW2 or because it suits them politically and economically to support an American 'friend'. Among the moderate right in this country there's some resentment that Israel's existence brings trouble to these shores and some support for the historical right of a Jewish state. So I can't, in good conscience, give a straight answer to your question, given the premise and the nuances.
What I would say however is that Tony and I have been branded as far-right, racist, bigoted, a word that sounds like James Blunt, chuckle brothers (I'm rather fond of that one), trolls, masturbators (fair one) and I personally have been subjected to a smear campaign, that I've been made aware of via PM. Tony had his personal details revealed in retaliation for his beliefs. And being annoying. Now, given that, if I were an observer, and broadly supported Israel, I'd probably let Tony and me do the graft and keep my head down. I can only speculate, but I can assure you that I've had messages of support from people who've not 'gone public'.
I could write an entire piece around the liberals who've co-opted the Islamist narrative and I could point out that the Jews are outnumbered by 1000-1. I could point out that the Palestinian propaganda machine is more potent than Israel's no-nonsense approach and so forth, but, I won't right now, as I'm going to eat my dinner.
However I guess I should have been more specific rather than saying right wing, but a bit late now. What I am getting at is on a board where I believe it would be more likely to find people sympathetic to the Israeli administration the fact there are still plenty who criticise them maybe tells you something i.e. they have a point. Please note use of the words Israeli administration and not Jews ... just being clear there
As for the rest of your post and all the names you have been called I will just say that IMO there is no smoke without fire and that your posting style doesn't help (and yes I know mine doesn't either). That being said I am surprised that you have been subjected to a smear campaign, that is not right no matter what your views and I think if people have something to say it should be said openly and fairly. You may not have liked the recent threads in policy and they didn't make for comfortable reading, but at least views got aired and discussed albeit a bit too extremely in some cases IMO (not guilty for once
).Finally I will just comment on your mention of people keeping their heads down and letting you and Tony do the graft. I do understand what you are saying, but when we had all those threads about Muslim this and Msulim that that was my main complaint. I felt the general 'feeling' those threads gave off (and no I am not accusing you or Tony of being racist or bigoted btw) would deter certain people from wanting to be part of the site and I still do.
I still feel that the place would be better without religious threads which I know is something you don;t agree with me on (another thing
), but the mods feel the same way as you so here we are.Anyway onwards and upwards as they say!
13 May 2011, 08:39 PM
#129
Ok, I'm going to take a gamble, here. Please don't react emotionally, this is part of the dialectic.
Given that Tony is defending Israel and, by default, the Jewish people, why is it acceptable to use the German language to tease him? We've just had a coversation about **** Germany, where 6 million Jews were eliminated, systematically, in an attempt to extirpate the oldest, most persecuted ethnoreligious group on the planet.
Tony's style of debate may annoy you, the way he ducks and dives, but we're all guilty of that at times. I'm just asking you to think whether it's fair to, on the one hand condemn his criticism of the 'persecuted' Palestinians and yet on the other engage in those kind of tactics.
@ Asif. Please don't react emotionally to this, I'm going to say the following to demonstrate flaws in the arguments on both sides:
I once asked you if the deliberate killing of Israeli civilians by Palestinian suicide murderers was acceptable - you eventually replied:
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...&postcount=298
It's worth noting that I had to ask the question 4 or 5 times before you responded. Most people don't like being asked awkward questions, including you, Asif. I've fallen out with all sorts of people on here defending Tony, and half the reason I've done it is because I think he makes many valid points. Sometimes he says things that his detractors use to try to hang him, but such is life. Sometimes he says things that are blatently stupid. Don't we all. The other reason is because he's absolutely in the minority (on here) when defending the state.
Please acknowledge this or refute it in a constructive way otherwise this little NSR conflict will go on and on and on, much like the Israel-Palestine horror show.
Given that Tony is defending Israel and, by default, the Jewish people, why is it acceptable to use the German language to tease him? We've just had a coversation about **** Germany, where 6 million Jews were eliminated, systematically, in an attempt to extirpate the oldest, most persecuted ethnoreligious group on the planet.
Tony's style of debate may annoy you, the way he ducks and dives, but we're all guilty of that at times. I'm just asking you to think whether it's fair to, on the one hand condemn his criticism of the 'persecuted' Palestinians and yet on the other engage in those kind of tactics.
@ Asif. Please don't react emotionally to this, I'm going to say the following to demonstrate flaws in the arguments on both sides:
I once asked you if the deliberate killing of Israeli civilians by Palestinian suicide murderers was acceptable - you eventually replied:
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...&postcount=298
It's worth noting that I had to ask the question 4 or 5 times before you responded. Most people don't like being asked awkward questions, including you, Asif. I've fallen out with all sorts of people on here defending Tony, and half the reason I've done it is because I think he makes many valid points. Sometimes he says things that his detractors use to try to hang him, but such is life. Sometimes he says things that are blatently stupid. Don't we all. The other reason is because he's absolutely in the minority (on here) when defending the state.
Please acknowledge this or refute it in a constructive way otherwise this little NSR conflict will go on and on and on, much like the Israel-Palestine horror show.
I have no issue with Jews (there might be a clue in my username) and I'm not an anti-semite. Joe on the other hand (IMHO) from his previous threads and in his many posts has blatantly revealed his dislike for muslims and all 'darkies'. This being his position you are questioning me about being a nasty meany? I'm not inferring that Joe is a Jew but if the cap fits. You're right Joe is in the minority but more so for his inane ramblings than anything else.
Last edited by Maz; 13 May 2011 at 08:41 PM.
13 May 2011, 09:40 PM
#132
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any way back on topic
the tragedy of Israel and the ME conflict is that it will only get worse imo. History has shown us that pretty much every Israeli prime minister eventually comes to the conclusion that the heavy handed confrontational route with the palastinians is wrong and counter productive.
The real tragedy is that I believe peace and some sort of reconciliation was close in the 90’s
Yitzhak Rabin, who was a very well respected leader (politicaly and more importantly militarily) – who fought heroically in all the wars throughout the 50,s 60,s and 70,s – and thus carried tremendous kudos and respect within Israel, came to the conclusion that far reaching concessions had to be made to the Palestinians in order to achieve some sort of peace settlement.
Like all Israeli leaders (understandably considering the recent history) he came to power very much a hard liner – but the hard realities of the conflict made him see that the course Israel was on, was the wrong one – and doomed to produce endless bloodshed on both sides
But alas – he was assassinated, not by Hamas etc but by hard line Jews who see the conflict in totally fundamental terms - biblical terms, in black and white terms
the problem for the region is that the Yitzhak Rabin's of the world are getting older, leaving the situation to career politicians (on both sides) who do not have the power or will to change the situation
13 May 2011, 09:49 PM
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The problem is that Israeli unilateral ceasefires don't work because the peace process gets derailed by militants on the Palestinian/Islamist side.
I've mentioned before about Camp David and how Arafat didn't get back with a counter offer. It's hard to blame Israel when Arafat failed to negotiate.
I don't deny there is a loony settler fringe in Israel but they don't run the Gov and the Israeli state has used violence to dismantle many settlements....but to what end though, to get another intifada in return?
Israeli concessions are all one way, they dismantle settlements etc, do ceasefire etc and they get attacked by rockets, soldiers kidnapped etc, buses blown up. It makes anyone with a ultra-hard line in Israel look like they have an argument.
I've mentioned before about Camp David and how Arafat didn't get back with a counter offer. It's hard to blame Israel when Arafat failed to negotiate.
I don't deny there is a loony settler fringe in Israel but they don't run the Gov and the Israeli state has used violence to dismantle many settlements....but to what end though, to get another intifada in return?
Israeli concessions are all one way, they dismantle settlements etc, do ceasefire etc and they get attacked by rockets, soldiers kidnapped etc, buses blown up. It makes anyone with a ultra-hard line in Israel look like they have an argument.
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 13 May 2011 at 09:51 PM.
13 May 2011, 10:07 PM
#134
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No.
Jewry is distinct from these religions in that it is also an ethnicity and/or a race. There are genetic and hereditary links that cannot be applied to other Abrahamic religions or other religions and traditions from around the world. It is sometimes the case that anti-Semites deny this so as to avoid criticism for racism.
The common understanding is that to be Jewish (rather than a practioner of Judaism) one's mother must be a Jew. This does not apply to Christianity or Islam - where conversion is encouraged irrespective of ethnic or genetic provenance. This explains why, alongside the holocaust and despite being the oldest of the monotheistic religions, the Jews are just 13 million in number. This compares to, for example 1.5 billion Muslims. It's worth considering these numbers when people talk of minority groups.
Jewry is distinct from these religions in that it is also an ethnicity and/or a race. There are genetic and hereditary links that cannot be applied to other Abrahamic religions or other religions and traditions from around the world. It is sometimes the case that anti-Semites deny this so as to avoid criticism for racism.
The common understanding is that to be Jewish (rather than a practioner of Judaism) one's mother must be a Jew. This does not apply to Christianity or Islam - where conversion is encouraged irrespective of ethnic or genetic provenance. This explains why, alongside the holocaust and despite being the oldest of the monotheistic religions, the Jews are just 13 million in number. This compares to, for example 1.5 billion Muslims. It's worth considering these numbers when people talk of minority groups.
The idea that to be a Jew you have to have a Jewish mother is quite simply, preposterous. The Jews may claim that, but if we suppose Judaism had to have a start, then the first Jews were not born of Jewish mothers, and so that cascade would mean that there are no Jews, but patently there are.
There are also plenty of apostates who's successive generations who are not Jews would be incredulous to be thought of as Jews because their ancestors were.
Judaism is a religion, albeit a rather selective and elitist one!
Geezer
Last edited by Geezer; 13 May 2011 at 10:24 PM.
13 May 2011, 10:16 PM
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13 May 2011, 10:24 PM
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There are no genetic links to being a Jew. OK, it originated around the middle east, but plenty of people round those parts did not become Jews. It would be fairer to say that people who originated in that part of the world share a common genetic link, but Judaism remains simply a religion. Seeing as Muslims and Jews basically share the old testament, then Muslims are simply an extension of Judaism ,much like Christianity.
The idea that to be a Jew you have to have a Jewish mother is quite simply, preposterous. The Jews may claim that, but if we suppose Judaism had to have a start, then the first Jews were not born of Jewish mothers, and so that cascade would mean that their are no Jews, but patently there are.
There are also plenty of apostates who's successive generations who are not Jews would be incredulous to be thought of as Jews because their ancestors were.
Judaism is a religion, albeit a rather selective and elitist one!
Geezer
The idea that to be a Jew you have to have a Jewish mother is quite simply, preposterous. The Jews may claim that, but if we suppose Judaism had to have a start, then the first Jews were not born of Jewish mothers, and so that cascade would mean that their are no Jews, but patently there are.
There are also plenty of apostates who's successive generations who are not Jews would be incredulous to be thought of as Jews because their ancestors were.
Judaism is a religion, albeit a rather selective and elitist one!
Geezer
13 May 2011, 10:27 PM
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13 May 2011, 10:29 PM
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The problem is that Israeli unilateral ceasefires don't work because the peace process gets derailed by militants on the Palestinian/Islamist side.
I've mentioned before about Camp David and how Arafat didn't get back with a counter offer. It's hard to blame Israel when Arafat failed to negotiate.
I don't deny there is a loony settler fringe in Israel but they don't run the Gov and the Israeli state has used violence to dismantle many settlements....but to what end though, to get another intifada in return?
Israeli concessions are all one way, they dismantle settlements etc, do ceasefire etc and they get attacked by rockets, soldiers kidnapped etc, buses blown up. It makes anyone with a ultra-hard line in Israel look like they have an argument.
I've mentioned before about Camp David and how Arafat didn't get back with a counter offer. It's hard to blame Israel when Arafat failed to negotiate.
I don't deny there is a loony settler fringe in Israel but they don't run the Gov and the Israeli state has used violence to dismantle many settlements....but to what end though, to get another intifada in return?
Israeli concessions are all one way, they dismantle settlements etc, do ceasefire etc and they get attacked by rockets, soldiers kidnapped etc, buses blown up. It makes anyone with a ultra-hard line in Israel look like they have an argument.
13 May 2011, 10:30 PM
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13 May 2011, 10:33 PM
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What is being shown? Pallywood?
At best it is just imagery, it means nothing compared to the human stories, causes, intentions behind it etc the other side of the story...it's devoid of context
Imagery of suffering just desensitises the individual anyway.
It's a pornography of suffering and violance...there is no context.
At best it is just imagery, it means nothing compared to the human stories, causes, intentions behind it etc the other side of the story...it's devoid of context
Imagery of suffering just desensitises the individual anyway.
It's a pornography of suffering and violance...there is no context.
Seems to be in line with some of your other posting of late.
13 May 2011, 10:35 PM
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13 May 2011, 10:36 PM
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I get the impression that some people just cannot grasp how someone else can support Israel without being a baby killer or something?! It tells me they aren't viewing the conflict rationally just interested in demonising the other side and scapegoating.
13 May 2011, 10:39 PM
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Israel is a nation of warriors.
13 May 2011, 10:39 PM
#147
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the problem is that the "nation" they built did not soley belong to them - unless you are some biblical fanatic who takes ancient writings as some sort of modern planning consent
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 13 May 2011 at 10:42 PM.
13 May 2011, 10:42 PM
#148
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and I would make that same point -- i believe that the imperative for jews to never be subjected to the horrors of the 30's and 40's, to never be "lambs to the slaughter" is a very very strong emotion
the problem is that the "nation" they built did not soley belong to them - unless you are some biblical fanatic who take ancient writings as some sort of modern planning consent
the problem is that the "nation" they built did not soley belong to them - unless you are some biblical fanatic who take ancient writings as some sort of modern planning consent
13 May 2011, 10:53 PM
#150
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I'm not sure what you're point is about biblical interpretations? You act like they - or the theories/facts of jewish 'ownership' of the land in the ancient past - is the sole basis and reason for modern Israels founding and continued existence?