Osama Bin Laden is DEAD :)
04 May 2011, 08:21 AM
#271
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Not to the extent the media and the governments would like us to be no. Yes in modern history there have been some terrorist attacks in the name of Islam, but there have also been some terrorist attacks not in the name of Islam. The media and goverments seem to be trying to create a mass hysteria among the Western populations which leads to many people becoming intolerant toward all Muslims and can even lead to people posting on Japanese car forums with emotive phrases such as the "War on Islamism" 
04 May 2011, 08:23 AM
#273
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Honestly Mus I think you strike a pose of being 'critical' whilst just dumbly 'believing' the exact opposite of the orthodox narrative. It's totally irrational and naive....which is ironic because you think you are being highly savy!
04 May 2011, 08:25 AM
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04 May 2011, 08:55 AM
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So the US has released story Osama Bin Laden Death Version 2.0. He wasn't armed and firing at US forces as in the initial account, but was in fact unarmed. With no weapons how much of a threat and how much resistance could OBL put up against a team of armed and highly trained elite force that would warrant one bullet to the head and another bullet in the chest execution style? As the US's most wanted man in the world, surely the US would have made every effort to bring him in to custody to answer questions and to face charges.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not in support of OBL or a conspiracy theorist, but merely puzzled with the changes to the story and circumstances surrounding his demise. Al Qaida's no.2, Abu Qaswarah, who was also killed by US troops was not given the same "respect" regarding his burial for example. I await further "refinement" to the story in the coming months.....
Don't get me wrong, I'm not in support of OBL or a conspiracy theorist, but merely puzzled with the changes to the story and circumstances surrounding his demise. Al Qaida's no.2, Abu Qaswarah, who was also killed by US troops was not given the same "respect" regarding his burial for example. I await further "refinement" to the story in the coming months.....
04 May 2011, 09:01 AM
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Does anyone else find it strange that Obama had photos taken of himself and the staff watching the mission happen live? I'm not a conspiracist, but it does seem a little strange.
04 May 2011, 09:03 AM
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04 May 2011, 09:09 AM
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04 May 2011, 09:16 AM
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So the US has released story Osama Bin Laden Death Version 2.0. He wasn't armed and firing at US forces as in the initial account, but was in fact unarmed. With no weapons how much of a threat and how much resistance could OBL put up against a team of armed and highly trained elite force that would warrant one bullet to the head and another bullet in the chest execution style? As the US's most wanted man in the world, surely the US would have made every effort to bring him in to custody to answer questions and to face charges.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not in support of OBL or a conspiracy theorist, but merely puzzled with the changes to the story and circumstances surrounding his demise. Al Qaida's no.2, Abu Qaswarah, who was also killed by US troops was not given the same "respect" regarding his burial for example. I await further "refinement" to the story in the coming months.....
Don't get me wrong, I'm not in support of OBL or a conspiracy theorist, but merely puzzled with the changes to the story and circumstances surrounding his demise. Al Qaida's no.2, Abu Qaswarah, who was also killed by US troops was not given the same "respect" regarding his burial for example. I await further "refinement" to the story in the coming months.....
04 May 2011, 09:16 AM
#288
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http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...l_Qaeda_Leader
Seems perfectly feasable to me why you wouldn't release horrific pictures for the World to see of someone having been shot in the head and chest.
Seems perfectly feasable to me why you wouldn't release horrific pictures for the World to see of someone having been shot in the head and chest.
04 May 2011, 09:17 AM
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I'm not being part of any conspiracy theory but it's been a couple of days since God (sorry, Obama ...) announced Bin Bag was dead but so far we have not seen one iota of proof. That's not much to expect if the course of events that night is as they said. i.e. they killed him, flew him to a US base then to a ship then heaved him over the side. Plenty of time to take nice, clean photos for public consumption.
Dave
Dave
04 May 2011, 09:29 AM
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04 May 2011, 11:21 AM
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Do you not believe that had they captured him and put him on trial the USA would have come under constant bombardment of terrorist attrocities in an attempt to have him released?
By killing him there will still be reprisals for his death but nothing compared to holding him as a prisoner. High profile kidnaps followed by filmed executions in the normal manner would have been the order of the day by al qaeda until OBL was freed.
As for the changes in the line of events that took place this is what happens when there is pressure to announce something without having studied all the details of the raid first. The details were released before the video footage could have been studied thoroughly and before the entire special forces team could have been debriefed.
By killing him there will still be reprisals for his death but nothing compared to holding him as a prisoner. High profile kidnaps followed by filmed executions in the normal manner would have been the order of the day by al qaeda until OBL was freed.
As for the changes in the line of events that took place this is what happens when there is pressure to announce something without having studied all the details of the raid first. The details were released before the video footage could have been studied thoroughly and before the entire special forces team could have been debriefed.
In any case, the story of how he met his end is probably the best for least collateral damage. The US are happy that he is dead, there will be no shrine for al Qaeda to use as a tool for recruitment, will speed up the withdrawal of forces from Afghanistan and Iraq and boost Obama's rating for re-election.
The reality is that the elite force was brought in to extract a CIA agent who has been in the field for a couple of decades and bring him back into the fold for another task. Made all the more easier as the "body" has be disposed of at sea.
04 May 2011, 11:43 AM
#293
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I absolutely agree that by capturing him and holding him in custody would present a massive incentive for his supporters to do everything they could to free him, but no more than invading a Muslim country. Yes there will be a heightened state of alert in this country, much like there was when our forces went into Iraq and Afghanistan and we all know the cost for doing so.
The US must have huge amount of evidence against him, enough to invade and start a war in Afghanistan! Yes, most US citizens want him dead, but there is a system of justice in a civilised western society where the accused is innocent until proven guilty and this is very much ingrain in the United States Constitution. But there are questions that need to be answered to justify the killing of an unarmed man regardless of who he was.
In any case, the story of how he met his end is probably the best for least collateral damage. The US are happy that he is dead, there will be no shrine for al Qaeda to use as a tool for recruitment, will speed up the withdrawal of forces from Afghanistan and Iraq and boost Obama's rating for re-election.
The reality is that the elite force was brought in to extract a CIA agent who has been in the field for a couple of decades and bring him back into the fold for another task. Made all the more easier as the "body" has be disposed of at sea.
The US must have huge amount of evidence against him, enough to invade and start a war in Afghanistan! Yes, most US citizens want him dead, but there is a system of justice in a civilised western society where the accused is innocent until proven guilty and this is very much ingrain in the United States Constitution. But there are questions that need to be answered to justify the killing of an unarmed man regardless of who he was.
In any case, the story of how he met his end is probably the best for least collateral damage. The US are happy that he is dead, there will be no shrine for al Qaeda to use as a tool for recruitment, will speed up the withdrawal of forces from Afghanistan and Iraq and boost Obama's rating for re-election.
The reality is that the elite force was brought in to extract a CIA agent who has been in the field for a couple of decades and bring him back into the fold for another task. Made all the more easier as the "body" has be disposed of at sea.
OBL was never a CIA 'agent', but he was supported by them in the during the Soviet invasion. That is quite a difference.
04 May 2011, 11:54 AM
#294
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For the media it sells papers and airtime etc. The government get to be able to spend lots of our money without too many questions being asked and a fearful population is a controlled population.
So while not a conspiracy theory as such they are quite happy to keep the people in a state of subdued fear just as they did with the Cold War and the 'reds under the bed' in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Funnily enough I read then how the communists were going to take over the country if we didn't rise up and do something... sound familiar?
The trouble is, as I said before, that this is all very well, but many people end up fearful of all Muslims and Islam and that in itself breeds resentment n both sides. That is what we are seeing more and more of today, you only have to read some of the less well thought out comments on forums like this to see that.
People need to learn to think for themselves and not allow themselves to believe eveyrthing they are spoonfed by two of the most untrustworthy groups of people in the world .. journalists and politicians!!!!
04 May 2011, 12:08 PM
#295
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You are being deliberately obtuse as ever. What I mean is I don't think every time I go out of the door 'am I going to get blown up by a jihadist today' which is how the media and government come across as wanting us to think.
For the media it sells papers and airtime etc. The government get to be able to spend lots of our money without too many questions being asked and a fearful population is a controlled population.
So while not a conspiracy theory as such they are quite happy to keep the people in a state of subdued fear just as they did with the Cold War and the 'reds under the bed' in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Funnily enough I read then how the communists were going to take over the country if we didn't rise up and do something... sound familiar?
The trouble is, as I said before, that this is all very well, but many people end up fearful of all Muslims and Islam and that in itself breeds resentment n both sides. That is what we are seeing more and more of today, you only have to read some of the less well thought out comments on forums like this to see that.
People need to learn to think for themselves and not allow themselves to believe eveyrthing they are spoonfed by two of the most untrustworthy groups of people in the world .. journalists and politicians!!!!
For the media it sells papers and airtime etc. The government get to be able to spend lots of our money without too many questions being asked and a fearful population is a controlled population.
So while not a conspiracy theory as such they are quite happy to keep the people in a state of subdued fear just as they did with the Cold War and the 'reds under the bed' in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Funnily enough I read then how the communists were going to take over the country if we didn't rise up and do something... sound familiar?
The trouble is, as I said before, that this is all very well, but many people end up fearful of all Muslims and Islam and that in itself breeds resentment n both sides. That is what we are seeing more and more of today, you only have to read some of the less well thought out comments on forums like this to see that.
People need to learn to think for themselves and not allow themselves to believe eveyrthing they are spoonfed by two of the most untrustworthy groups of people in the world .. journalists and politicians!!!!
You still seem to be in total denial that Islam has this extremist problem, it's manifest in your unreasonable incredulity that people should view Islam criticaslly and perhaps a little supiciously when a whole miitant/extremist movement plans and plots outragenous in the name of Islam, not to mention the larger Islamist movement which is anti-west, anti-capitalist and in some cases has imperialist ambitions over western countries.
04 May 2011, 12:09 PM
#296
04 May 2011, 12:16 PM
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Because you said this:
Unless you only thing we were on alert against citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan?
Originally Posted by jonc
Yes there will be a heightened state of alert in this country, much like there was when our forces went into Iraq and Afghanistan and we all know the cost for doing so.
04 May 2011, 12:21 PM
#298
Whatever the final outcome is, it certainly has put a lot of people on jitter alert. My missus was worried about me going to work in London yesterday, but I said that it didnt matter if I changed my routine or avoided certain places, because if there was going to be any attacks, it could happen anytime.
But it does show that the media reports have an effect on people.
But it does show that the media reports have an effect on people.
04 May 2011, 12:23 PM
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You still seem to be in total denial that Islam has this extremist problem, it's manifest in your unreasonable incredulity that people should view Islam criticaslly and perhaps a little supiciously when a whole miitant/extremist movement plans and plots outragenous in the name of Islam, not to mention the larger Islamist movement which is anti-west, anti-capitalist and in some cases has imperialist ambitions over western countries.
Why shoudl I view Ialam critically because a few extremists claim to be acting in the name of it. It's like tarnishing the whole of the Cathiolic religion because the IRA bombers were Catholic.