Libya
15 April 2011, 09:53 PM
#246
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History repeats - I see MPs are now questioning what we are doing there and whether the action being taken really comes under the terms of the UN resolution, each country involved seems to be saying different things about the objective, no one knows how long we will be there now (a few weeks becamce months becmnae indefinite), there is no real plan as what to do even if the objective can be agreed.... all much as I predicted really.
Hey ho, at least Cameron gets his place in history ... as the man that leanrt nothing from his predecessors!
Hey ho, at least Cameron gets his place in history ... as the man that leanrt nothing from his predecessors!
18 April 2011, 12:01 PM
#249
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More funds from the UK to help Libya, good job we're not broke... oh hang on!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13115874
Deeper and deeper into the mess we descend
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13115874
Deeper and deeper into the mess we descend
25 April 2011, 12:05 PM
#250
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Just been watching the news about Libya and got to thinking how quiet this thread has gone... I wonder why 
So it seems that today we have no end in sight to our involvement, MPs justifiably unhappy about 'mission creep', different countries in the 'alliance' having different ideas on what the misson should or shouldn't be, bombing missions hitting the rebels and civilians and every day the death toll mounts..... basically all the things most of us knew would happen when Cameron et al decided to make another massive mistake in recent World history.
All that aside what the heck is the way forward now? We seriously cannot afford to be there indefinitely a la Iraq and Afghanistan so how do we ensure this does not happen?
So it seems that today we have no end in sight to our involvement, MPs justifiably unhappy about 'mission creep', different countries in the 'alliance' having different ideas on what the misson should or shouldn't be, bombing missions hitting the rebels and civilians and every day the death toll mounts..... basically all the things most of us knew would happen when Cameron et al decided to make another massive mistake in recent World history.
All that aside what the heck is the way forward now? We seriously cannot afford to be there indefinitely a la Iraq and Afghanistan so how do we ensure this does not happen?
25 April 2011, 01:07 PM
#251
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I think we have to be scrupulously accurate in the way we follow the UNO resolution. That says action should taken to protect the Libyan civilians from being slaughtered by their own "leader".
The further actions being taken, such as sending in " miltary advisors" and actively attacking various installations seems to me to be going too far and outside the terms of the resolution.
It is a shorter and shorter step to full involvement in a civil war with the aim of regime change which is as illegal as it was in Iraq.
Les
The further actions being taken, such as sending in " miltary advisors" and actively attacking various installations seems to me to be going too far and outside the terms of the resolution.
It is a shorter and shorter step to full involvement in a civil war with the aim of regime change which is as illegal as it was in Iraq.
Les
25 April 2011, 01:11 PM
#252
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The U.S. is understandably trying to keep a very low involvement. They've no option, they're going to end up broke. Where can we turn next... oh Europe, the land where everyone needs bailed out.
Last edited by GlesgaKiss; 25 April 2011 at 04:52 PM.
25 April 2011, 01:36 PM
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Just been watching the news about Libya and got to thinking how quiet this thread has gone... I wonder why
So it seems that today we have no end in sight to our involvement, MPs justifiably unhappy about 'mission creep', different countries in the 'alliance' having different ideas on what the misson should or shouldn't be, bombing missions hitting the rebels and civilians and every day the death toll mounts..... basically all the things most of us knew would happen when Cameron et al decided to make another massive mistake in recent World history.
All that aside what the heck is the way forward now? We seriously cannot afford to be there indefinitely a la Iraq and Afghanistan so how do we ensure this does not happen?
So it seems that today we have no end in sight to our involvement, MPs justifiably unhappy about 'mission creep', different countries in the 'alliance' having different ideas on what the misson should or shouldn't be, bombing missions hitting the rebels and civilians and every day the death toll mounts..... basically all the things most of us knew would happen when Cameron et al decided to make another massive mistake in recent World history.
All that aside what the heck is the way forward now? We seriously cannot afford to be there indefinitely a la Iraq and Afghanistan so how do we ensure this does not happen?
On what basis though? Because it's better for our bank account? You must have values based on more than cash F1?
25 April 2011, 01:51 PM
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Just watching the Sky report on the fighting in Misrata.
The rebels are looking fairly battle hardened now and committed.
I wonder if Gadaffi's brutality will be his downfall....the people have a lot to gain by getting rid of him.
The rebels are looking fairly battle hardened now and committed.
I wonder if Gadaffi's brutality will be his downfall....the people have a lot to gain by getting rid of him.
25 April 2011, 06:42 PM
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I totally agree, when we have done absolutely nothing to stop Israel killing many Palestinians or illegally taking over and occupying their land, and haven't done so for over 50 years. And nor did we do anything to stop the Zimbabwean atrocities and president Mugabi etc etc. It's all about oil pipelines, same as it was/is in Iraq.
Last edited by matth76; 25 April 2011 at 08:08 PM.
25 April 2011, 06:51 PM
#257
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I totally agree, when we have done absolutely nothing to stop Israel killing all the Palestinians, and haven't done so for over 50 years. And nor did we do anything to stop the Zimbabwean atrocities and president Mugabi etc etc. It's all about oil pipelines, same as it was/is in Iraq.
What about Hamas, Hezzbollah killing Israelis?
25 April 2011, 08:07 PM
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As some have mentioned I really think this is going to become another "Iraq" where we are drawn into it and get to a point we cannot just leave.
25 April 2011, 08:15 PM
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Sorry I didn't mean to say "all". I should have said "many". I will completely agree with you though about the "organisations" within Palestine. Both sides are as bad as each other, although what Israel's government has been doing is in-excusable (especially most recently back in 2005). It is clearly a bloody battle that has been going on for many decades and either way we sit back and do nothing, same with Zimbabwe, yet we go into Libya after only a short period of time.
As some have mentioned I really think this is going to become another "Iraq" where we are drawn into it and get to a point we cannot just leave.
As some have mentioned I really think this is going to become another "Iraq" where we are drawn into it and get to a point we cannot just leave.
If you have no noticed we have caused collateral deaths in Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan.
OTOH Israeli enemies kill Israeli civilians by intention.
25 April 2011, 08:17 PM
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We'll have to agree to disagree re Israel.
Last edited by matth76; 25 April 2011 at 08:21 PM.
26 April 2011, 04:04 AM
#261
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How dare you criticise Israel? They are Gods chosen ones! Allowed, by law to kill and maim who they like, in the name of self defence, to ignore UN resolutions, to flout international Law and boundaries, to launch wars against whoever they see fit, etc etc.
Please keep your anti Israeli opinions to yourself or the self proclaimed Scoobynet MOSSAD operatives will be down on you like an F16 strike on an innocent Palestinians house while they sleep, killing everyone.
Oh, too late!
26 April 2011, 06:35 AM
#262
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I think that is being a bit light with the truth. In the last Israeli "excursion" into Palestine a couple of years back there were something like 1400 Palestinians killed and around a dozen Israelis. I think it is more accurate to say that they don't care much who they kill to meet their objectives. dl
26 April 2011, 10:53 AM
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Les
26 April 2011, 01:40 PM
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What? Like oil? Can we please stop all this humanitarian bollocks as anyone who thinks we are in Libya for humanitarian reasons is just embarrassing themselves.
If that were the case we'd have already been in several other countries mentioned many times before on here.
It's a smokescreen. Dave just wants his name on the world stage and the West wants Libya's oil. End of!
If that were the case we'd have already been in several other countries mentioned many times before on here.
It's a smokescreen. Dave just wants his name on the world stage and the West wants Libya's oil. End of!
26 April 2011, 01:56 PM
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Your second point is where we need to be and where Cameron/Hague, Sarkozy and Obama are heading, subject to the Russians and China of course.
26 April 2011, 02:10 PM
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I think that is being a bit light with the truth. In the last Israeli "excursion" into Palestine a couple of years back there were something like 1400 Palestinians killed and around a dozen Israelis. I think it is more accurate to say that they don't care much who they kill to meet their objectives. dl
26 April 2011, 02:18 PM
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I think you need to get a grip, recent documents have shown the massive concessions offered to Israel for a peace deal including recognition of Israel as a Jewish only state and plans to remove the arabs not all ready ethnically cleansed from their homes in Israel to somewhere else. The Israeli attitude was something along the lines of we don't care, we use force to create facts on the ground. Israel has never had any intention of doing anything other than expanding its territory and ethnicly cleansing arabs in the area. 100 years of history prove this to be true.