Deja Vu (Libya)
Scooby Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
They'll win. As David said, the real dilemma is the Bahrain/Saudi situation: if we don't back the rebels we're practising double standards (the hypocrisy of realpolitik), if we do we compromise our interests and support an Iranian (Shia) backed rebellion. Entre le marteau et l'enclume. Anyway, up in five hours - must sleep. 
The Bahrain elites should open up the political plutocracy, disseminate power more, it's the only defensibly thing to do. Thing is the House of Saud don't want this because it would weaken their own position.
Guest
Posts: n/a
So now the UN must decide what to do next as he's removed the one issue that got the resolution, he's stopped attacking civilians. He knows what he's doing and there's now no reason to have a no-fly zone or other military intervention in Libya. Maybe he's bombed the cr%p out of enough rebels already?
Dave
Dave
Well you thought wrong then. We need to stop meddling in things we know nothing about. We caused more problems in Iraq than we solved and the fact it was illegal just makes it all the worse.
So now the UN must decide what to do next as he's removed the one issue that got the resolution, he's stopped attacking civilians. He knows what he's doing and there's now no reason to have a no-fly zone or other military intervention in Libya. Maybe he's bombed the cr%p out of enough rebels already?
Dave
Dave
Scooby Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
Scooby Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 0
From: Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tary_conflicts
.
When we sort out Libya then Tony would you like to pick the next one we move onto from the list.
.
When we sort out Libya then Tony would you like to pick the next one we move onto from the list.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
Scooby Regular
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Your whole world seems to revolve around these situations.
You can't even ask a straight question and make assumptions instead hoping to get an answer that you can jump up and down about!
My position is clear enough. I really don't have to justify my thinking on your behalf either.
If you were to be brave and state your own thinking on the matter then we would all know exactly where you are at and the matter would become clearer all round!
Les
You can't even ask a straight question and make assumptions instead hoping to get an answer that you can jump up and down about!
My position is clear enough. I really don't have to justify my thinking on your behalf either.
If you were to be brave and state your own thinking on the matter then we would all know exactly where you are at and the matter would become clearer all round!
Les
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...9&postcount=77
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
Your whole world seems to revolve around these situations.
You can't even ask a straight question and make assumptions instead hoping to get an answer that you can jump up and down about!
My position is clear enough. I really don't have to justify my thinking on your behalf either.
If you were to be brave and state your own thinking on the matter then we would all know exactly where you are at and the matter would become clearer all round!
Les
You can't even ask a straight question and make assumptions instead hoping to get an answer that you can jump up and down about!
My position is clear enough. I really don't have to justify my thinking on your behalf either.
If you were to be brave and state your own thinking on the matter then we would all know exactly where you are at and the matter would become clearer all round!
Les
The only way we, as in the West, should get involved militarily is with a firm UN resolution (something the Obama administration actually seem to understand unlike his predecessor) and with the backing of the Arab states not to mention the Libyan people.
We also need to have a proper plan as to what happens next i.e. once Gadaffi has gone. Do we really need another Afghanistatn/Iraq?
I would also like to know how having been told we, as in the UK, have to cut back on military spending can afford to get involved?
We also need to have a proper plan as to what happens next i.e. once Gadaffi has gone. Do we really need another Afghanistatn/Iraq?
I would also like to know how having been told we, as in the UK, have to cut back on military spending can afford to get involved?
What part of that post do you not understand?
I also said the only way the West should go in is with a UN resolution, but that doesn't mean I support it or think it is a good idea. What I do think though is we should not go in without one and create another Iraq.... all of which was quite clear from my post.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 10,329
Likes: 0
The resolution forbids troops on the ground so Iraq is irrelevant as a comparison.
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
Yes
Yes
Yes
This:
Your "resolution" caveat is moot because actually what you're saying is "the West shouldn't go in". 
Yes
Yes
This:
Guest
Posts: n/a
Explain why we can afford it when we're making thousands of people redundant in this country? Explain why we can afford it when we're making the largest cuts in generations in public spending (if you believe the Labour party/BBC)? Explain why we can afford it when we're making huge cuts to defense spending?
Dave
Dave
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
Explain why we can afford it when we're making thousands of people redundant in this country? Explain why we can afford it when we're making the largest cuts in generations in public spending (if you believe the Labour party/BBC)? Explain why we can afford it when we're making huge cuts to defense spending?
Dave
Dave
Nevertheless, the efficiency savings allow us, amongst other things, to fulfil our obligations on the international stage. We have the fourth largest defence budget on the planet (after our permanent member and NATO allies the US and France and f1's mates, the Chinese) and we have the largest navy and airforce in the EU.
This has a legal backing, a UN mandate, a moral and humanitarian justification, the support of the Libyan pro-democracy rebels, the support of the region and the support of the majority of the house of commons. It's the right thing for us to do and I'm proud of our country's stance.
Just because things are slightly harder at home doesn't mean we seal ourselves off from the rest of the world. We have a duty, an obligation to our French partners, our cousins across the pond, our own long-term interests and to the promotion of our values across the world. If you're unhappy with this you may protest, stand for election or write a strong letter.
**** me, I'm not a government spokesman!
Nevertheless, the efficiency savings allow us, amongst other things, to fulfil our obligations on the international stage. We have the fourth largest defence budget on the planet (after our permanent member and NATO allies the US and France and f1's mates, the Chinese) and we have the largest navy and airforce in the EU.
This has a legal backing, a UN mandate, a moral and humanitarian justification, the support of the Libyan pro-democracy rebels, the support of the region and the support of the majority of the house of commons. It's the right thing for us to do and I'm proud of our country's stance.
Just because things are slightly harder at home doesn't mean we seal ourselves off from the rest of the world. We have a duty, an obligation to our French partners, our cousins across the pond, our own long-term interests and to the promotion of our values across the world. If you're unhappy with this you may protest, stand for election or write a strong letter.
Nevertheless, the efficiency savings allow us, amongst other things, to fulfil our obligations on the international stage. We have the fourth largest defence budget on the planet (after our permanent member and NATO allies the US and France and f1's mates, the Chinese) and we have the largest navy and airforce in the EU.
This has a legal backing, a UN mandate, a moral and humanitarian justification, the support of the Libyan pro-democracy rebels, the support of the region and the support of the majority of the house of commons. It's the right thing for us to do and I'm proud of our country's stance.
Just because things are slightly harder at home doesn't mean we seal ourselves off from the rest of the world. We have a duty, an obligation to our French partners, our cousins across the pond, our own long-term interests and to the promotion of our values across the world. If you're unhappy with this you may protest, stand for election or write a strong letter.
We can't afford it because if we could we shouldn't be making thousands of people redundant in the UK. Charity begins at home after all!!!
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
We're a permenent member of the UNSC, allied to the US and France and we make provision for this in our budget. 500 years of history makes it so.
So we make provision for the occasional invasion and subsequent occupation of a foreign country in our budget do we?
Scooby Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14,758
Likes: 0
From: Home
Guest
Posts: n/a
Geez, to use an "Americanism", wake up and smell the coffee. Or are your posts just a big wind-up?Dave
Yes, but not to anywhere even remotely near the extent we are already commited and that is before Libya. Iraq and Afghanistan are bleeding our already stretched military budget dry and now this.
Last edited by f1_fan; Mar 19, 2011 at 09:10 AM.
So Gadaffi's forces advancing on Benghazi and his planes flying in the skies above. Ceasfire holding well then? 
Internationally led bloodbath here we come. 
Oh and try as I might I can find no reports of the UN having any real plan for what happens next.... no surprise there then!
Internationally led bloodbath here we come. Oh and try as I might I can find no reports of the UN having any real plan for what happens next.... no surprise there then!
