Finally - Cameron attacks 'state multiculturalism'
05 February 2011, 08:07 PM
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05 February 2011, 09:01 PM
#95
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So prejudice against Muslims is now socially acceptable? In what way? How come the EDL are by and large detested then?
She just accused the British middle-classes of being bigoted basically. It's insulting and a lie.
You don't think there is a divide between moderate and extremists then either?
She just accused the British middle-classes of being bigoted basically. It's insulting and a lie.
You don't think there is a divide between moderate and extremists then either?
05 February 2011, 09:04 PM
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So prejudice against Muslims is now socially acceptable? In what way? How come the EDL are by and large detested then?
She just accused the British middle-classes of being bigoted basically. It's insulting and a lie.
You don't think there is a divide between moderate and extremists then either?
She just accused the British middle-classes of being bigoted basically. It's insulting and a lie.
You don't think there is a divide between moderate and extremists then either?
05 February 2011, 09:11 PM
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05 February 2011, 09:31 PM
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That he might not be, but I still think he has a very good case that people with a strong dislike or distrust of Muslims are easily in the minority on this forum. That of course still leaves the question unanswered of whether SN is representative of the population as a whole.
05 February 2011, 09:38 PM
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That he might not be, but I still think he has a very good case that people with a strong dislike or distrust of Muslims are easily in the minority on this forum. That of course still leaves the question unanswered of whether SN is representative of the population as a whole.
Among her quotes:
"the patronising, superficial way faith is discussed in certain quarters, including the media"
"taking a pop at the Muslim community in the media sold papers and didn't really matter"
You only have to look at threads on here that are ostensibly about immigration i.e. all immigration, yet in no time at all become about Muslims and nothing else.... that in itself goes some way to proving what she is saying is true.
05 February 2011, 09:47 PM
#103
Well she said that prejudice was socially acceptable, not necessarily a strong dislike or distrust.
... ...
You only have to look at threads on here that are ostensibly about immigration i.e. all immigration, yet in no time at all become about Muslims and nothing else.... that in itself goes some way to proving what she is saying is true.
... ...
You only have to look at threads on here that are ostensibly about immigration i.e. all immigration, yet in no time at all become about Muslims and nothing else.... that in itself goes some way to proving what she is saying is true.
05 February 2011, 09:49 PM
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05 February 2011, 10:00 PM
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I was under the impression though that you yourself had complained repeatedly that those very threads are mostly started by the same small number of posters every time, so how does that prove social acceptability? By virtue of the fact that the outrage those threads generated among other members wasn't intense or vocal enough?
Coming back to SN there are at least two or three threads a week on average that descend into the same mess and while it maybe the same handful of posters that are the most vocal the very fact the threads keep appearing is enough.
I mean if I started a thread about how the orthodox Jews in North Manchester are insular and don't mixx there would be an outcry. Whether I am right or worng and how many people contribute is irrelevant.... the fact is 'Muslim' threads are seen as the norm whereas 'Jewish' threads are not.
05 February 2011, 10:08 PM
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There are many Islamic groups calling for Sharia and they are highly vocal and organized. You have young British Muslims who are recruited by violent extremists and have carried (or planed) numerous attacks. But you seem to have this thing where you just cannot understand why many British people see Islam as a threat and are afraid?
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 05 February 2011 at 10:10 PM.
05 February 2011, 10:12 PM
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I mean if I started a thread about how the orthodox Jews in North Manchester are insular and don't mixx there would be an outcry. Whether I am right or worng and how many people contribute is irrelevant.... the fact is 'Muslim' threads are seen as the norm whereas 'Jewish' threads are not.
Besides look at how the Israeli threads turn out, we have the same people lambasting and vilifying Israel and spreading the same lies and propaganda.
05 February 2011, 10:15 PM
#108
I dare say that if a group of orthodox Jews blew up three tube trains next week and you posted your thread after that, the outcry you speak of might be somewhat muted. Anyhow, I work in a relatively busy office, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of times people have started conversations just randomly slagging off Muslims in the past 3 years I've been there. Maybe it's just the kind of people I work with, or that they don't say what they really think when I'm around, who knows, but if I had to base my judgement of what that politico said on my own experience, I'd simply have to say she's wrong.
05 February 2011, 10:23 PM
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How many dinner parties have you been to where someone says "he's a muslim but ok"? How many has Warsi been to?
Islam isn't the only faith, besides the issue is with politics not faith per se.
Criticism or villification? Seem to me you see all things as the latter?
There are many Islamic groups calling for Sharia and they are highly vocal and organized. You have young British Muslims who are recruited by violent extremists and have carried (or planed) numerous attacks. But you seem to have this thing where you just cannot understand why many British people see Islam as a threat and are afraid?
Islam isn't the only faith, besides the issue is with politics not faith per se.
Criticism or villification? Seem to me you see all things as the latter?
There are many Islamic groups calling for Sharia and they are highly vocal and organized. You have young British Muslims who are recruited by violent extremists and have carried (or planed) numerous attacks. But you seem to have this thing where you just cannot understand why many British people see Islam as a threat and are afraid?
Your position seems very contradictory in this post.
As for the fact I don't understand it... you are right I don't as I don't think Islam is a threat. The nice thing about that is that unlike you I am not afraid
05 February 2011, 10:26 PM
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I dare say that if a group of orthodox Jews blew up three tube trains next week and you posted your thread after that, the outcry you speak of might be somewhat muted. Anyhow, I work in a relatively busy office, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the amount of times people have started conversations just randomly slagging off Muslims in the past 3 years I've been there. Maybe it's just the kind of people I work with, or that they don't say what they really think when I'm around, who knows, but if I had to base my judgement of what that politico said on my own experience, I'd simply have to say she's wrong.
Maybe North Manchester is different ... I grant you the BNP are fairly active up here and that will be for a reason. On balance and in my experience I have some sympathy with what Warsi is saying. Can't stand her politics mind, but there you go.
05 February 2011, 10:32 PM
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To be honest Tony I don't see the Israel threads and the Muslim threads as comparable. I don't think the Israel threads are anti Jewish, they are just pointing out that in some people's opinion the Israeli admninsitration go too far. The fact they are a Jewish nation is largely irrelevant. That's how I see it anyway.
As for some Jewish people calling for theocracy... well not in the UK maybe.
And I would remind you that it is a tiny percentage of Muslims that blow things up or are extremists. That they do so in the name of Islam is not to say the remainder of people who follow Islam are automatically supporters of their cause.
05 February 2011, 10:36 PM
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05 February 2011, 10:37 PM
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You perpetuate this. If an article criticising Islamic practice is posted, you take pleasure in broadening this out and describe it as 'Muslim bashing'. You do not allow dialogue to ensue, you immediately polarise the discussion and deliberately place 'them' against 'us'. You're a hypocrite and a charlatan.
05 February 2011, 10:37 PM
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Well make your mind up. Do many see it as a threat and therefore talk about it... making Warsi's comments true or don't they and therefore she is wrong?
Your position seems very contradictory in this post.
As for the fact I don't understand it... you are right I don't as I don't think Islam is a threat. The nice thing about that is that unlike you I am not afraid
Your position seems very contradictory in this post.
As for the fact I don't understand it... you are right I don't as I don't think Islam is a threat. The nice thing about that is that unlike you I am not afraid
She seems to be saying it's wrong to differentiate between moderates and extremists. That is absurd, as if criticizing the extremists is somehow not allowed (or maybe because she is a Muslim so only she can criticize them?)?
Besides 'Islamophobia' implies an irrational fear, but any right minded person would be phobic of certain ideological trends and generalities we see even in mainstream Islam let alone extreme Islam.
05 February 2011, 10:43 PM
#118
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