Finally - Cameron attacks 'state multiculturalism'
05 February 2011, 04:27 PM
#61
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... I am not going to defend the actions of terrorists. You know, they don't really care if they kill me by their actions.
Let me ask you, are you seriously equating the actions of a handful, yes a handful, of nutcases around the whole planet, to being indicative of what 1.5 billion people think?
Common sense should prevail here. I suggest, if I may, to change the media you subscribe to. ...
Let me ask you, are you seriously equating the actions of a handful, yes a handful, of nutcases around the whole planet, to being indicative of what 1.5 billion people think?
Common sense should prevail here. I suggest, if I may, to change the media you subscribe to. ...
As for the "media I subscribe to", if it's Muslims doing the majority of terrorist attacks then why should I subscribe to media that doesn't report that?
The Conservatives/Lib Dems are in power, not Labour. The economy was growing despite Labour and now it is contracting.
Yes I know you like to blame everything on Labour and sure they, and a world recession have playyed their part in the last few years, but this is now and the the current bunch are doing even more damage and will not admit it!
How long are you prepared to watch the country sink while taking solace in the fact it is all Labour's fault
Yes I know you like to blame everything on Labour and sure they, and a world recession have playyed their part in the last few years, but this is now and the the current bunch are doing even more damage and will not admit it!
How long are you prepared to watch the country sink while taking solace in the fact it is all Labour's fault
Typical leftie response that. 'We must move on, can't live in the past' whilst blaming those non-lefties from the past anyway. Or 'we should go with the consensus' when they're not in the majority, but when they are then we must 'do as we say for the good of the country'. (cf Obama in the US now he hasn't a majority in both houses any more!).
Dave
05 February 2011, 04:34 PM
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Come on, you yourself said that "many" of our problems today can be traced back to Maggies time. So how come we're not allowed to blame Labour when it's Ok to blame someone who was last PM 20 years ago!?
Typical leftie response that. 'We must move on, can't live in the past' whilst blaming those non-lefties from the past anyway. Or 'we should go with the consensus' when they're not in the majority, but when they are then we must 'do as we say for the good of the country'. (cf Obama in the US now he hasn't a majority in both houses any more!).
Dave
Typical leftie response that. 'We must move on, can't live in the past' whilst blaming those non-lefties from the past anyway. Or 'we should go with the consensus' when they're not in the majority, but when they are then we must 'do as we say for the good of the country'. (cf Obama in the US now he hasn't a majority in both houses any more!).
Dave
As usual you start throwing the lefty moniker about. Do you actually read any posts on here or is your need to speak rather than listen that overwhelming? Many times I have stated that Labour were not good for this country and contributed greatly to how the world recession has affected us.
What I am now talking about is what the latest government's cuts and economic policies are doing to the economy in the short term. As I have just said it is too much too soon and has shattered the confidence of a fragile recovery. That is down to them and them alone hence why I have singled the out. Simples as they say
05 February 2011, 04:39 PM
#64
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Rather than break this down into individual quotes let me say at by and large I agree with what you say 
Yes i did figure certain people would post inappropriate comments or side track the thread and i have done my best to keep it on track. I regularly RTM stuff i feel is inappropriate and let the mods decide - IMHO they do a good and fair job of it. I try not to rise to the bait of some by ignoring their posts as i said it only gives them a bit of credibility and a soapbox to do so. It is also up to others (you included (in the nicest possible way) to also police the thread by using the RTM function.
I posted this thread after some thought about the consequences, but thought it worthy of airing as it is a key speech by our PM (love him or hate him) about to be given to other heads of state. I also do not think i should have to not post something i see as important just because a few fools will make stupid comments - this comes back to the RTM function and all of us using it as required
My stance is that i do not prejudge anyone by their colour or by their religion but by their actions and motives.
Yes i did figure certain people would post inappropriate comments or side track the thread and i have done my best to keep it on track. I regularly RTM stuff i feel is inappropriate and let the mods decide - IMHO they do a good and fair job of it. I try not to rise to the bait of some by ignoring their posts as i said it only gives them a bit of credibility and a soapbox to do so. It is also up to others (you included (in the nicest possible way
) to also police the thread by using the RTM function.I posted this thread after some thought about the consequences, but thought it worthy of airing as it is a key speech by our PM (love him or hate him) about to be given to other heads of state. I also do not think i should have to not post something i see as important just because a few fools will make stupid comments - this comes back to the RTM function and all of us using it as required
My stance is that i do not prejudge anyone by their colour or by their religion but by their actions and motives.
My ire has been vented I feel, and given sensible comments like this one from you, I am placated.
05 February 2011, 04:40 PM
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Chip
05 February 2011, 04:57 PM
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Didn't say I was. But that's the impression lots of people have. They hear 'Muslim suicide bomber .... Muslim shot and killed two ... Muslim pilots 9/11' etc etc so it's no wonder people get the "wrong impression". And the news shows pictures of "Muslims" holding up placards on British streets saying 'Death to unbelievers' (or whatever). Drip drip drip .....
As for the "media I subscribe to", if it's Muslims doing the majority of terrorist attacks then why should I subscribe to media that doesn't report that?
Dave
As for the "media I subscribe to", if it's Muslims doing the majority of terrorist attacks then why should I subscribe to media that doesn't report that?
Dave
I am sorry that we seem to only be answering each others' questions with questions (ie not really going anywhere) but I do feel you have gone completely off topic here.
In answer to your question, I heard stats the other week that the majority of terrorist incidents are not from Muslim terror groups, but cannot quote the source as it was on the radio. Perhaps you can look up some concrete figures? That way there will be less conjecture.
Asif
05 February 2011, 05:24 PM
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05 February 2011, 05:28 PM
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Asif. To make my position perfectly clear
I am not a moderator nor have the power top stop people posting or alter their posts.
I will however if this gets out of hand either delete the thread myself or report it to get something done but i will not stop posting just because some people do not like what i post or they then go on to turn in into a xyz bashing thread. I made my position clear from the start and also pointed out my own experiences in a Muslim country when someone posted how churches, etc where not tolerated in such countries.
It is not up to me to 'justify' my post(s) by defending anyone although i will correct and comment on what i know to be incorrect/wrong/misleading.
The idiots, extremists and ill educated on all sides (we all know who they are) make themselves clear by their words and they should be ignored thus not giving them credibility and opportunity to continue and troll and cause problems.
Its called freedom of speech
I am not a moderator nor have the power top stop people posting or alter their posts.
I will however if this gets out of hand either delete the thread myself or report it to get something done but i will not stop posting just because some people do not like what i post or they then go on to turn in into a xyz bashing thread. I made my position clear from the start and also pointed out my own experiences in a Muslim country when someone posted how churches, etc where not tolerated in such countries.
It is not up to me to 'justify' my post(s) by defending anyone although i will correct and comment on what i know to be incorrect/wrong/misleading.
The idiots, extremists and ill educated on all sides (we all know who they are) make themselves clear by their words and they should be ignored thus not giving them credibility and opportunity to continue and troll and cause problems.
Its called freedom of speech
05 February 2011, 05:33 PM
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Coming from you Tony...
However, I wouldn't be leading would I? I would be trying to redress the imbalance created by others, as I see it, on this thread.
Do you not wonder why I do not start threads like this?
Let's leave it there Tone, I have been Spanish Inquisitioned on this thread sufficiently and unjustifiably IMO, but have made my point.
I have work to do now (that I need to get on with!) and need to be in the pub by 8pm. I hope you have a good evening. May I suggest that you go out? Altrincham is supposed to be a nice place?
Asif
However, I wouldn't be leading would I? I would be trying to redress the imbalance created by others, as I see it, on this thread.
Do you not wonder why I do not start threads like this?
Let's leave it there Tone, I have been Spanish Inquisitioned on this thread sufficiently and unjustifiably IMO, but have made my point.
I have work to do now (that I need to get on with!) and need to be in the pub by 8pm. I hope you have a good evening. May I suggest that you go out? Altrincham is supposed to be a nice place?
Asif
05 February 2011, 05:35 PM
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Let me ask you if you think say the 'home grown' suicide bombers in the UK are not a manifestation of a dysfunctional social and political factors within the Islamic community. For every bombers their are many sympathizers and many more who are 'Islamists' and want Sharia law. I don't believe it is just the result of 'randomness' as you seem to want to imply. Please don't see this as an attack.
05 February 2011, 05:42 PM
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Personally I think they are just steering everyones attention from how the economy is being screwed into the ground with all the cuts and it is having the opposite effect the goverment were hoping for and they are being told this by everyone but are not listening just like every politician that has ever been in power.
As a bus driver the bus companies have just seen 20% in cuts which was the fuel duty they paid but the goverment are not willing to let them cut any part of the service, eg kids and oap's still get free travel and half price for anyone who says they cant lift there arms or finds it difficult to put one foot infront of the other. To save this money they have been recruiting drivers on £8.50 an hour ( I currently get £12.70) we all know where this is leading the company will activley look to get rid of us "Higher Paid" drivers to recruit the drivers on the lower rate to claw back the cuts and make even more money for the share holders.
Is this fair?????
As a bus driver the bus companies have just seen 20% in cuts which was the fuel duty they paid but the goverment are not willing to let them cut any part of the service, eg kids and oap's still get free travel and half price for anyone who says they cant lift there arms or finds it difficult to put one foot infront of the other. To save this money they have been recruiting drivers on £8.50 an hour ( I currently get £12.70) we all know where this is leading the company will activley look to get rid of us "Higher Paid" drivers to recruit the drivers on the lower rate to claw back the cuts and make even more money for the share holders.
Is this fair?????
05 February 2011, 05:43 PM
#73
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That is all straw.
Let me ask you if you think say the 'home grown' suicide bombers in the UK are not a manifestation of a dysfunctional social and political factors within the Islamic community. For every bombers their are many sympathizers and many more who are 'Islamists' and want Sharia law. I don't believe it is just the result of 'randomness' as you seem to want to imply. Please don't see this as an attack.
Let me ask you if you think say the 'home grown' suicide bombers in the UK are not a manifestation of a dysfunctional social and political factors within the Islamic community. For every bombers their are many sympathizers and many more who are 'Islamists' and want Sharia law. I don't believe it is just the result of 'randomness' as you seem to want to imply. Please don't see this as an attack.
Pop down to the mosque in Longsight and have a chat with them. They will give you all the answers mate, probably convert you, be careful!
If you are not attacking me why the straw comment? It is a perfectly reasonable statement/question. Instead of accusing me of things why not provide a sensible counter?
Sorry but Fred West was a pretty dysfunctional element within the white, English, community in this country. Please explain his actions as you are 'obviously' the same as him?
And before you say anything, or before I am accused of being horrible to you, I have answered all of these questions before. You however, NEVER answered a single question about that which you chose to defend.
Thanks.
Asif
05 February 2011, 05:46 PM
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Personally I think they are just steering everyones attention from how the economy is being screwed into the ground with all the cuts and it is having the opposite effect the goverment were hoping for and they are being told this by everyone but are not listening just like every politician that has ever been in power.
If he is so bothered let's see some action rather than just waffle!
05 February 2011, 05:49 PM
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No Tony, dont ask me anything!
Pop down to the mosque in Longsight and have a chat with them. They will give you all the answers mate, probably convert you, be careful!
If you are not attacking me why the straw comment? It is a perfectly reasonable statement/question. Instead of accusing me of things why not provide a sensible counter?
Sorry but Fred West was a pretty dysfunctional element within the white, English, community in this country. Please explain his actions as you are 'obviously' the same as him?
And before you say anything, or before I am accused of being horrible to you, I have answered all of these questions before. You however, NEVER answered a single question about that which you chose to defend.
Thanks.
Asif
Pop down to the mosque in Longsight and have a chat with them. They will give you all the answers mate, probably convert you, be careful!
If you are not attacking me why the straw comment? It is a perfectly reasonable statement/question. Instead of accusing me of things why not provide a sensible counter?
Sorry but Fred West was a pretty dysfunctional element within the white, English, community in this country. Please explain his actions as you are 'obviously' the same as him?
And before you say anything, or before I am accused of being horrible to you, I have answered all of these questions before. You however, NEVER answered a single question about that which you chose to defend.
Thanks.
Asif
05 February 2011, 05:58 PM
#76
Some of us don't want the country we know and love changed in certain ways but should foreign populations continue to grow, we will have no choice in the matter.
There is nothing we can do to stop it if it is going to happen but that doesn't mean we have to like it. I don't have to accept any arguments to the contrary, I don't have to reason or meet half way.
This is how I feel.
That is how you feel.
Each entitled to his view. Nothing wrong with that.
05 February 2011, 06:06 PM
#77
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Willingly though? Or because of procreation?
Some of us don't want the country we know and love changed in certain ways but should foreign populations continue to grow, we will have no choice in the matter.
There is nothing we can do to stop it if it is going to happen but that doesn't mean we have to like it. I don't have to accept any arguments to the contrary, I don't have to reason or meet half way.
This is how I feel.
That is how you feel.
Each entitled to his view. Nothing wrong with that.
Some of us don't want the country we know and love changed in certain ways but should foreign populations continue to grow, we will have no choice in the matter.
There is nothing we can do to stop it if it is going to happen but that doesn't mean we have to like it. I don't have to accept any arguments to the contrary, I don't have to reason or meet half way.
This is how I feel.
That is how you feel.
Each entitled to his view. Nothing wrong with that.
Culture is one thing but the law and nature of the state is another.
It does not follow that the state should incorporate elements of religious law as part of that 'mixing' though.
05 February 2011, 06:16 PM
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Yes there is, foz. You can challenge, educate, fight your corner and be absolutely prepared to stand your ground in the face of overwhelming opposition, often in the form of moral blackmail and ill-informed slurs. There are people that wish to see you roll over, it makes life easy for them. Don't roll over.
Last edited by JTaylor; 05 February 2011 at 06:18 PM.
05 February 2011, 06:29 PM
#79
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Cameron - you are RIGHT on this!!
MUSLIMS WHO WANT TO LIVE UNDER ISLAMIC SHARIA LAW SHOULD BE TOLD TO GET OUT!
You live here on OUR terms - end of!
MUSLIMS WHO WANT TO LIVE UNDER ISLAMIC SHARIA LAW SHOULD BE TOLD TO GET OUT!
You live here on OUR terms - end of!
05 February 2011, 06:51 PM
#80
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05 February 2011, 07:34 PM
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05 February 2011, 07:38 PM
#85
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You too can read it here ... http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.c...ch-end-to.html ... enjoy
Oh, I'm sure it's in other places too but that's the first one I found.
Dave
05 February 2011, 07:39 PM
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05 February 2011, 07:53 PM
#88
Personally I think they are just steering everyones attention from how the economy is being screwed into the ground with all the cuts and it is having the opposite effect the goverment were hoping for and they are being told this by everyone but are not listening just like every politician that has ever been in power.
As a bus driver the bus companies have just seen 20% in cuts which was the fuel duty they paid but the goverment are not willing to let them cut any part of the service, eg kids and oap's still get free travel and half price for anyone who says they cant lift there arms or finds it difficult to put one foot infront of the other. To save this money they have been recruiting drivers on £8.50 an hour ( I currently get £12.70) we all know where this is leading the company will activley look to get rid of us "Higher Paid" drivers to recruit the drivers on the lower rate to claw back the cuts and make even more money for the share holders.
Is this fair?????
As a bus driver the bus companies have just seen 20% in cuts which was the fuel duty they paid but the goverment are not willing to let them cut any part of the service, eg kids and oap's still get free travel and half price for anyone who says they cant lift there arms or finds it difficult to put one foot infront of the other. To save this money they have been recruiting drivers on £8.50 an hour ( I currently get £12.70) we all know where this is leading the company will activley look to get rid of us "Higher Paid" drivers to recruit the drivers on the lower rate to claw back the cuts and make even more money for the share holders.
Is this fair?????
(Call me) Dave's timing is kind of suspicious to say the least. Multiculturalism is failing? No **** Sherlock! It's been failing for feckin' years. However it seems the issue is only carted out when the powers that be need a convenient diversion. We need solid, coherent policies to address the problems, not soundbites. A start would be to stop immigration immediately. Then deport all illegals followed by those that flout our laws. There you go (call me) Dave, I've set the ball rolling.
05 February 2011, 07:59 PM
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(Call me) Dave's timing is kind of suspicious to say the least. Multiculturalism is failing? No **** Sherlock! It's been failing for feckin' years. However it seems the issue is only carted out when the powers that be need a convenient diversion. We need solid, coherent policies to address the problems, not soundbites. A start would be to stop immigration immediately. Then deport all illegals followed by those that flout our laws. There you go (call me) Dave, I've set the ball rolling.