water frozen in engine.
26 December 2010, 11:42 AM
#35
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I had similar problem on my astra 1.7dti, didnt have any antifreeze so obviously everything froze, i poured hot water over the engine until engine was running again. But because of my stupidity damage was already done, the core plug came out which ment all the coolant leaking out within 10 seconds, to get to the core plug the whole engine needed to be stripped as it was a pain to get to. Fixed that then engine started mixing oil and coolant, which according to mechanic was due to OIL cooler and not head gasket because he had fitted a new one. With oil cooler fitted now it was mixing oil into cooler and there would be no oil left in engine. So i've had endless problems because of not having any anti-freeze
26 December 2010, 02:33 PM
#38
Deary me.
You may be lucky and I hope you are, obviously but if the engine has been at temperatures well below zero for a few days or weeks there is a substantial chance you have done very serious damage by running without antifreeze.. You may be lucky.
If you take a glass bottle and fill it with water and leave it outside in freezing conditions, as the water solidifies and forms ice below 0 deg C you will see that the bottle/glass breaks. This is because of the expansion that takes place as the water turns to ice.
So with the water in your engine waterways. As it freezes it expands and tremendous forces build up as the freezing process takes place. This could split waterways in the head or block, the turbo water jacket or if you are lucky just burst steel water pipes. The rubber or silicon pipes can expand to some degree but possibly not enough to cope with a solid freeze.
Best advice is to get the car into your garage or some other building where the temperature can be kept above zero and preferably above 5C. Let the car thaw out. You can add increased heating within the building to speed the process.
Once thawed out which could take from a few hours to a couple of days if the temperature is not much above zero, fill the system with water and start checking for leaks. If all seems well start the engine and let it warm through but be very vigilant.
If all is well add antifreeze to cope with conditions down to -20 or -25 depending on where you live.
Let us know how you get on. Good luck.
All water coolled engines, petrol, deisle, car, HGV, generator etc need to be protected all the year round and £10-£20 on antifreeze over the year is adviable and better option than hundreds of pounds for a new block, head, turbo or whatever.
You may be lucky and I hope you are, obviously but if the engine has been at temperatures well below zero for a few days or weeks there is a substantial chance you have done very serious damage by running without antifreeze.. You may be lucky.
If you take a glass bottle and fill it with water and leave it outside in freezing conditions, as the water solidifies and forms ice below 0 deg C you will see that the bottle/glass breaks. This is because of the expansion that takes place as the water turns to ice.
So with the water in your engine waterways. As it freezes it expands and tremendous forces build up as the freezing process takes place. This could split waterways in the head or block, the turbo water jacket or if you are lucky just burst steel water pipes. The rubber or silicon pipes can expand to some degree but possibly not enough to cope with a solid freeze.
Best advice is to get the car into your garage or some other building where the temperature can be kept above zero and preferably above 5C. Let the car thaw out. You can add increased heating within the building to speed the process.
Once thawed out which could take from a few hours to a couple of days if the temperature is not much above zero, fill the system with water and start checking for leaks. If all seems well start the engine and let it warm through but be very vigilant.
If all is well add antifreeze to cope with conditions down to -20 or -25 depending on where you live.
Let us know how you get on. Good luck.
All water coolled engines, petrol, deisle, car, HGV, generator etc need to be protected all the year round and £10-£20 on antifreeze over the year is adviable and better option than hundreds of pounds for a new block, head, turbo or whatever.
26 December 2010, 04:14 PM
#39
The coolant mix (and obviously the oil) are the engine's lifeblood. I find it difficult to comprehend anyone putting only neat water in... fullstop! But to then 'forget' about it when winter comes......... Hmmn.
I sincerely hope the OP has got lucky... But, unfortunately, I fear the worst for him.
I sincerely hope the OP has got lucky... But, unfortunately, I fear the worst for him.
Last edited by joz8968; 26 December 2010 at 04:17 PM.
27 December 2010, 12:48 PM
#44
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again, the last time i delt with a car that this happened to. we just put a heater under the car for a good couple of hours, then drained the water & put fresh in with a good amount of anti freeze.
hope this will be the same out come for this motor
27 December 2010, 12:54 PM
#45
Yeah, if the water pump was frozen up, then it's more than likely the belt will just slip on it - or break the w/p shaft! - as, as said, the pump's drivewheel is totally smooth (it's NOT a toothed sprocket). The drivewheel simply relies on friction from the very tight cambelt to transfer the drive to the impeller via a shaft to said drivewheel... 
Last edited by joz8968; 27 December 2010 at 12:57 PM.
27 December 2010, 01:05 PM
#46
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the way i see it, there may be slight antifreeze in the motor, not enough to stop it freezing, but may have stop it from exspanding. unless he drained the whole system and just put tap water in there.
hope this was a leason learned here, and doesnt happen to peeps on here again.
briton must have the worst weather system in the world.
hope this was a leason learned here, and doesnt happen to peeps on here again.
briton must have the worst weather system in the world.
28 December 2010, 11:45 PM
#49
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haven't started it yet, parked in garage to let it defrost a little, will let you know when i start it. there was some anti-freeze in there just not enough to stop it freezing.
29 December 2010, 12:06 AM
#50
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you think thats bad, i paid some1 to fit new headgasket to my van back in the summer and he never used antifreeze (the guys a friggin mechanic that works for merc) luckily it was onlythe feed and return pipes from the expansion tank that froze and was quickly solved and iv now put antifreeze in myself. only cost me £15 ,wud have rather spent that £15 durin the summer to avoid the hassle
29 December 2010, 12:12 AM
#51
Remember why old cars used to always overheat? One of the main reasons was they ran neat water and no corrosion inhibitor (it hadn't been properly invented back then, or when it was nobody used it) most notable sufferers was the Triumph Stag and various Jaguars - steel block + Alloy head + tap water = big bills for new engines/cylinder heads .
A car's cooling system has aluminium, steel, copper and even a bit of brass inside it. Add water and you basically have a battery. Galvanic corrosion, eating away at your cylinder heads, gaskets and bunging up the radiator and heater matrix.
Old coolant is just as bad as it becomes corrosive so its just as damaging.
Sorry, but there just no excuse for this kind of cowboy mechanics on a modern car. I could forgive it if the year was a 1975 and the car in question was a rusty Hillman Imp. So come on, in this day and age people should know better than using neat tap water or heavily watered down anti-freeze where 99% of modern cars require a 50:50 mix. Knowing how expensive the damage can be through corrosion or freezing is just not worth cutting corners or being so absent minded.
.A car's cooling system has aluminium, steel, copper and even a bit of brass inside it. Add water and you basically have a battery. Galvanic corrosion, eating away at your cylinder heads, gaskets and bunging up the radiator and heater matrix.
Old coolant is just as bad as it becomes corrosive so its just as damaging.
Sorry, but there just no excuse for this kind of cowboy mechanics on a modern car. I could forgive it if the year was a 1975 and the car in question was a rusty Hillman Imp. So come on, in this day and age people should know better than using neat tap water or heavily watered down anti-freeze where 99% of modern cars require a 50:50 mix. Knowing how expensive the damage can be through corrosion or freezing is just not worth cutting corners or being so absent minded.
Last edited by ALi-B; 29 December 2010 at 12:15 AM.
29 December 2010, 02:13 AM
#52
Remember why old cars used to always overheat? One of the main reasons was they ran neat water and no corrosion inhibitor (it hadn't been properly invented back then, or when it was nobody used it) most notable sufferers was the Triumph Stag and various Jaguars - steel block + Alloy head + tap water = big bills for new engines/cylinder heads .
.
29 December 2010, 08:22 AM
#53
Any garage or mechanic that does not add anti-freeze after draining the system is just cutting corners and storing up problems for later. Even a back street garage if it is any good should have a supply of anti-freeze/coolant throughout the year. Running an engine on water only is purely a temporary measure to check there are no leaks.
29 December 2010, 08:31 PM
#54
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Nobody has mentioned that antifreeze is also a lubricant to increase the life of the water pump, and increases the boiling point of water (in addition to it's anti corrosion and antifreeze properties)!
31 December 2010, 11:11 AM
#56
After seeing all the pipe leakes around here and on the telly, if big old steel/copper pipes split under the pressure of frozen water,i dont hold much hope for the small lines in an engine,but fingers crossed bud
01 January 2011, 04:49 PM
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