335d vs VXR8
18 December 2010, 01:50 PM
#123
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Well you seem to be the only one James... And have you driven a selection of BMWs and a VXR8? I doubt it.
JB - still think you don't appreciate decent handling. But for some reason you feel the need to dress it up with a load of waffle slating BMWs. If you were a boxer, you'd want to be a heavyweight but with no finesse, no real skill - just a reliance on power and nothing else. Yes you'd looks imposing, yes it's "impressive" but the skilled middleweight boxer is a lot more fun to watch.
As for Alan, he just stated that an S6 is a grown ups Scooby. A lost cause driving Audi's ultimate example of power and grip over handling.
JB - still think you don't appreciate decent handling. But for some reason you feel the need to dress it up with a load of waffle slating BMWs. If you were a boxer, you'd want to be a heavyweight but with no finesse, no real skill - just a reliance on power and nothing else. Yes you'd looks imposing, yes it's "impressive" but the skilled middleweight boxer is a lot more fun to watch.
As for Alan, he just stated that an S6 is a grown ups Scooby. A lost cause driving Audi's ultimate example of power and grip over handling.
I have driven a selection of BMW's as it happens, mainly 5 series, including the E39 M5, and a 1 series 120d for what it's worth. I admit I havent driveen the VXR8, but to me it has far more appeal/desireability than the BM's.
20 December 2010, 09:27 AM
#124
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James - I know but to make such a "confident" statement with little knowledge (driving old 5 series and a 120d doesn't exactly qualify you) is a bit daft.
I haven't driven a VXR8 but I have sat in one and had a good look around - I'm sure I'd love the engine, the sound, etc but I'm fairly sure that owning one would grate. Horrible interior (I had an Astra for four years - Vx and even Holden CANNOT do interior), almost no boot space, very heavy, extremely thirsty, dreadful dealers, etc.
I imagine the real reason for such a statement is simply that you can't abide BMWs image (I find it pretty annoying too but not enough to stop buying one) and like to tell people how you'd rather have a Perodua than a BM. Fine but it makes you look a bit daft.
I haven't driven a VXR8 but I have sat in one and had a good look around - I'm sure I'd love the engine, the sound, etc but I'm fairly sure that owning one would grate. Horrible interior (I had an Astra for four years - Vx and even Holden CANNOT do interior), almost no boot space, very heavy, extremely thirsty, dreadful dealers, etc.
I imagine the real reason for such a statement is simply that you can't abide BMWs image (I find it pretty annoying too but not enough to stop buying one) and like to tell people how you'd rather have a Perodua than a BM. Fine but it makes you look a bit daft.
20 December 2010, 10:22 AM
#125
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20 December 2010, 01:18 PM
#129
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Just read through this thread. In defence of JB:
Just as I was starting to look at being able to drive anything other than a 1.something runaround BMW released the e46 M3. To me, this was the likely pinnacle of what I could one day expect to achieve.
A few years ago John owned one and reported that it has awful brakes, hopped around all over the place, and squeaked non-stop (inside). I was gutted as I had grown over the 10-years we've posted on SN to trust John's judgement.
Shortly after, my friend bought a lovely example of an e46 M3 and I have probably clocked up around 1000 miles in it personally (all 'fun' driving).
John said the brakes are crap.
John was being polite...they are a fvcking abortion. One hard stop from 120-40mph will see them shaking the next time you touch them. Another few stops and it's game over as they have completely given up.
John said they bounce all over the road.
John was right, they struggle to cope with choppy scottish b and c roads and my ST220 can easily match the M3's handling in such circumstances (better it in others). It's not a complete buzz-kill for me in the way it was for John though. I personally adapted to the hop and could learn to live with it, but a £3k barried up scooby would destroy an M3 on nearly any Scottish country road.
John said his squeaked. My mates didn't and is rock solid. Luck of the draw I guess.
I still love the M3 and regard it as an all round excellent car. However, it does have some pretty serious flaws if you are hoping to cut loose on a sunday and push it around. You'll not get 2 miles from your house before it is begging you to turn around. I remember I knocked the utter sh*t out of my first Impreza along a barely passable single track road for 25+ miles before the car started to give in (brakes dead, gearbox whinning, boost control "varied" at best!!).
I still love BMW's and I expect I'll own one (or several) one day. However, when I do it'll be the day to day car, will be specced to the max, and will be primarily for going fast for short stints or in a straight line.
For mad weekend driving I think I'll always have to look elsewhere.
Just as I was starting to look at being able to drive anything other than a 1.something runaround BMW released the e46 M3. To me, this was the likely pinnacle of what I could one day expect to achieve.
A few years ago John owned one and reported that it has awful brakes, hopped around all over the place, and squeaked non-stop (inside). I was gutted as I had grown over the 10-years we've posted on SN to trust John's judgement.
Shortly after, my friend bought a lovely example of an e46 M3 and I have probably clocked up around 1000 miles in it personally (all 'fun' driving).
John said the brakes are crap.
John was being polite...they are a fvcking abortion. One hard stop from 120-40mph will see them shaking the next time you touch them. Another few stops and it's game over as they have completely given up.
John said they bounce all over the road.
John was right, they struggle to cope with choppy scottish b and c roads and my ST220 can easily match the M3's handling in such circumstances (better it in others). It's not a complete buzz-kill for me in the way it was for John though. I personally adapted to the hop and could learn to live with it, but a £3k barried up scooby would destroy an M3 on nearly any Scottish country road.
John said his squeaked. My mates didn't and is rock solid. Luck of the draw I guess.
I still love the M3 and regard it as an all round excellent car. However, it does have some pretty serious flaws if you are hoping to cut loose on a sunday and push it around. You'll not get 2 miles from your house before it is begging you to turn around. I remember I knocked the utter sh*t out of my first Impreza along a barely passable single track road for 25+ miles before the car started to give in (brakes dead, gearbox whinning, boost control "varied" at best!!).
I still love BMW's and I expect I'll own one (or several) one day. However, when I do it'll be the day to day car, will be specced to the max, and will be primarily for going fast for short stints or in a straight line.
For mad weekend driving I think I'll always have to look elsewhere.
20 December 2010, 01:28 PM
#130
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Do M3 drivers all realise they should have bought a Mondeo? 
E9*s have much better brakes than E46s - which are now pretty old. Done plenty of very hard driving on back roads in mine without brake issues.
Not heard of any issues with current M3s either.
E9*s have much better brakes than E46s - which are now pretty old. Done plenty of very hard driving on back roads in mine without brake issues.
Not heard of any issues with current M3s either.
20 December 2010, 01:34 PM
#132
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John was right, they struggle to cope with choppy scottish b and c roads and my ST220 can easily match the M3's handling in such circumstances (better it in others)
Errrmm, no idea...
Still if JB said it too, you guys MUST be right eh?
Errrmm, no idea...
Still if JB said it too, you guys MUST be right eh?
20 December 2010, 01:43 PM
#135
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Ok, it's like this mattee...if there was a Ferrari vs Porsche thread would you read Trout's inputs and regard him as a balanced contributor?
Similarly when there is a BMW vs anything thread do you expect anybody to regard you as a balanced contributor?
At the risk of sounding like a JB fanboy (and fvck it, I sort of am), John has proven himself to be consistently objective over the years. He has never flown a particular "flag" and would happily discuss the failings/weakness of his vehicles, even when he still owned them.
You on the other hand will defend your 335 until the day you sell it for an Audi/Merc.....and on that day, all BMW's will be sh*t. You read it here first folks...
P.S. Sorry trout
Similarly when there is a BMW vs anything thread do you expect anybody to regard you as a balanced contributor?
At the risk of sounding like a JB fanboy (and fvck it, I sort of am), John has proven himself to be consistently objective over the years. He has never flown a particular "flag" and would happily discuss the failings/weakness of his vehicles, even when he still owned them.
You on the other hand will defend your 335 until the day you sell it for an Audi/Merc.....and on that day, all BMW's will be sh*t. You read it here first folks...
P.S. Sorry trout
20 December 2010, 01:46 PM
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Wife's hire Mondeo she had for a few weeks was more fun than my M3 down a B-road. When both were sitting on the drive and we were going out for a weekend drive, the E46 was shuffled out the way to let the 1.8LX out
And when the vRS returned (someone had rearranged its side), that got taken out in preference too!
And when the vRS returned (someone had rearranged its side), that got taken out in preference too!
Last edited by john banks; 20 December 2010 at 01:49 PM.
20 December 2010, 01:47 PM
#137
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Except JB and I went from discussion to slight disagreement and back without anyone needing to resort to thinly veiled insults.
Only time I'll" defend" my BM is when people start spouting total BS about either them or other brands. BM bashing is very popular and very lame. And full of complete tosh.
I'd have a B7 RS4 Avant or a decent AMG Merc estate at the drop of a hat if mpg. range between stops and running costs were of no interest at all.
But most of the Audi range leave me cold - hey ho. I don't feel the need to get personal about it.
Trout's post are funny but usually interesting and he has proved he is a decent track driver which helps.
But saying a Mondano handles better than an M3 really is the pinnacle of stupidity.
"SIR SIR, JB AND SB ARE GANGING UP ON ME AGAIN"
Only time I'll" defend" my BM is when people start spouting total BS about either them or other brands. BM bashing is very popular and very lame. And full of complete tosh.
I'd have a B7 RS4 Avant or a decent AMG Merc estate at the drop of a hat if mpg. range between stops and running costs were of no interest at all.
But most of the Audi range leave me cold - hey ho. I don't feel the need to get personal about it.
Trout's post are funny but usually interesting and he has proved he is a decent track driver which helps.
But saying a Mondano handles better than an M3 really is the pinnacle of stupidity.
"SIR SIR, JB AND SB ARE GANGING UP ON ME AGAIN"
Last edited by Matteeboy; 20 December 2010 at 01:51 PM.
20 December 2010, 01:51 PM
#138
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I'm not insulting you (or at least I'm trying not to). I'm simply attacking your over-zealous defence of BMW's.
FWIW, (and I think I've told you this before) BMW are my favourite non-super car marque by some distance. I prefer them to Audi's, any part of the VW group, Mers, any American, other European or Jap brand. But I'm not blinkered that BMW rule the world.
FWIW, (and I think I've told you this before) BMW are my favourite non-super car marque by some distance. I prefer them to Audi's, any part of the VW group, Mers, any American, other European or Jap brand. But I'm not blinkered that BMW rule the world.
20 December 2010, 01:54 PM
#139
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SB - so are you short of sight then?
You've failed to see the many threads where I've rued the dismal snow/ice performance of BMWs? The threads where I say how grim I think any 1 series looks? The ones where I've cringed at the utterly useless X3? Others where I wish BMs didn't come with so much flaming status "baggage?"
Nope, all you register is the ones where I show a little enthusiasm for the great models BMW can make.
IMO the E46 M3 was not one of them - never wanted one. The E9* version is a different kettle of fish. I like them a lot.
Oh and show me a weedy engined M Sported up BM of any sort and I will run away at high speed.
You've failed to see the many threads where I've rued the dismal snow/ice performance of BMWs? The threads where I say how grim I think any 1 series looks? The ones where I've cringed at the utterly useless X3? Others where I wish BMs didn't come with so much flaming status "baggage?"
Nope, all you register is the ones where I show a little enthusiasm for the great models BMW can make.
IMO the E46 M3 was not one of them - never wanted one. The E9* version is a different kettle of fish. I like them a lot.
Oh and show me a weedy engined M Sported up BM of any sort and I will run away at high speed.
20 December 2010, 01:58 PM
#140
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Seriously, I'm not winding anyone up, the Mondeo did handle better than the M3 except on a fast, smooth curve. The Mondeo had better steering feel, better turn in, control weights were perfect, brakes were progressive and didn't fatigue, it was faster in the wet as you could feel what the tyres were doing better, and it had suspension that worked on fun roads.
There is a road where I used to keep up with some impressive machinery (2 or 4 wheel) in the Scooby (and although I only did 6 track days could sit around Knockhill with GT3 RS and Noble), but I had my *** handed to me in the wet on the road when I was driving the M3... by an Impreza Sport.
There is a road where I used to keep up with some impressive machinery (2 or 4 wheel) in the Scooby (and although I only did 6 track days could sit around Knockhill with GT3 RS and Noble), but I had my *** handed to me in the wet on the road when I was driving the M3... by an Impreza Sport.
20 December 2010, 02:17 PM
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E46 M3 is a cracking car, I'd much prefer one over the ST220...warts n' all.
However, on this road - which is an A-road btw - the Mondeo can stay in contact with the road where the BMW skips off it's line. That said, on the smoother sections, such as the part by Loch Glascarnoch the ST cannot hope to hold the road like the M3.
However, on this road - which is an A-road btw - the Mondeo can stay in contact with the road where the BMW skips off it's line. That said, on the smoother sections, such as the part by Loch Glascarnoch the ST cannot hope to hold the road like the M3.
20 December 2010, 02:55 PM
#146
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Ahh I see - who needs handling finesse when you can have big **** wheels huh?
IMO cars with big wheels look **** because I know they have ruined the ride in the search to look "cool" - which makes them slightly retarded.
Everyone knows that the E46 handled and rode way better on 18s.
Stick 19s on that Mondeo and see how it copes.
A bit like sticking moped wheels to an R1 and complaining about how it rides.
IMO cars with big wheels look **** because I know they have ruined the ride in the search to look "cool" - which makes them slightly retarded.
Everyone knows that the E46 handled and rode way better on 18s.
Stick 19s on that Mondeo and see how it copes.
A bit like sticking moped wheels to an R1 and complaining about how it rides.
20 December 2010, 03:41 PM
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I must admit my 335i has 19 inch alloys because I am more bothered about how it looks compared to how it handles on A roads. I hardly spend anytime on A roads but loads looking at it.
I couldn't believe the diffferences in handling between an Astra VXR on 18's compared to 19's.
I couldn't believe the diffferences in handling between an Astra VXR on 18's compared to 19's.
20 December 2010, 03:54 PM
#150
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Probably resale suicide to have bought a non i-drive (I HATE i-drive) SE on 17s then to stick non RFTs on it but hey ho, I bought the car for me and my family, not some slimy dealer.