john banks

I prefer the S6 picture by far. Sorry.

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

hey that bm looks ok , but yes you know the audi.s wins for me , thats why i have one, My old 535 did not have run flats, and the s6 is a firm ride like the 535 m, but i like it,

MMT WRX

And me.

Dingdongler

Why are you comparing a 3 series with a A6?

This is the current 5 series interior (obviously there are some bad taste combos there)

http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361027

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

shame there no better ,

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The Audi looks like a bad disco.

The BMW looks a little plain - but over time that is a good thing IMHO.

Matteeboy

Indeed Trout - at least one person can spot a well designed dash. The rest just want a million buttons - never mind actually driving the car.

Anyway S6 gets pretty much universally slated, 535d gets praised.

BM wins.

richs2891

Both dash's have thing wrong with them in my eyes, - like the BMW steering wheel, loads better than the Audi one. Dont like how the BMW has the heater controls, then cd player controls (?) and then the heated seats control all in soperate boxes with non flush fitting gaps arounbd, and whats that rectangular thing to the right of it ?
Dont like the how the Audi has key in dash - how old is that. When is tje new A6 put anyway ?

Richard

hodgy0_2

Cup holder I would imagine

when in doubt, chuck in a cup holder

Jimpreza

A friend got in my 335 and asked where all the buttons where. I showed him most things are controlled on the idrive. He then stated he like his golf's dash better and his wifes A3as they had more bling lights. Trout hit the nail on the head, a 'bad disco'.

scooby-tc

iTrader: (2)

Ive had both and the Audi interior is a far nicer place to be,nothing rattles like the BMW and it doesnt have as much plastic in it.Also if the I-Drive fails (and they do) you lose the control of virtually everything,such a stupid idea IMO

but to be fair you are comparing the interior of a BMW which came out in 2003 to an interior of an Audi which came out in late 2006 so hardly a fair comparison

Matteeboy

Scooby - I hate i-drive with a passion. It was partly responsible for the demise on the inlaws 535d. So I spent ages finding a non i-drive 335d - not many around!

Anyway just like our R32 Golf, the BM is very "clean" very functional and ergonomically spot on. Our Astra has one of the worst dashes I have ever seen!

Not to everyone's taste (the leather is browner in real life than in the photo) but I really like our BM interior:



Our neighbour has a current shape A4 with all the toys and it looks like the control room of NASA - too many buttons, too much style over substance.

All IMO of course

Myles

iTrader: (40)

Hilarious how these Audi/BMW threads end up. If the BMW dash is better, save your money and adapt it for the S6! job done! Better car with better dash!

Matteeboy

BM dash in an S6 - now that's a serious bit of modding!

Olly

"My dashboard is better than yours!"

Think some people need to take a long, hard look at themselves

john banks

If you painted bigger numbers on the tacho and gave the 335d an LSD it could fulfill most of the VXR8 growler credentials, including sex wee, without scaring farm animals, whilst doing 45mpg. Just the owners can end up a bit narrow minded.

I have to say, I'm not a fan of any of the BMW dashboards featured, I prefer the E46 interior to them all, but overall I just prefer Audi interiors. I also prefer that Audi can fit proper brakes, proper tyres and have proper traction. And yes I'd rather have a heavy engine hanging over the front axle and slightly dull steering than I would the joke that is BMW traction in poor conditions. BMWs may not have wrong wheel drive, but they often have one wheel drive.

Matteeboy

John - you are actually talking a wee bit of BS.

Audi 3.0TDI (as an example) has MUCH smaller brake disks than the 330d and 335d. And less powerful calipers. And they are snatchy. Proper tyres? Errmmm most Audis also have RFTs and the M series BMs all have non RFTs as standard. It doesn't take much to fit non RFTS anyway (as I did) Proper traction? A triumph of traction over handling finesse and steering feedback.

But then you drive the ultimate PS3 "Gran Tourismo" tech fest that is the GT-R. A car I have no interest in at all. An ugly, super heavy car that, just like the RS Audis, is a triumph of power over handling. I'm with Troutie here - I'd MUCH rather have a 911, even a low end model, than a GT-R. Roughly 400kgs less, proper steering and a great chassis rather than the full fly by wire driving experience so favoured by the Japs.

You favour raw speed over the handling - hence having an FQ Evo previously too.

Each to their own I guess.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Reminded me of.....

With a mere ninety break-horse-power available, progress is too leisurely to be called fast, but on the motorway in fifth gear the Megane's slow pace really becomes a pain. Uphill runs become power-sappingly mundane, while overtaking National Express coaches can become a long, drawn-out affair. Not my words, Carol. The words of Top Gear magazine

From, guess which fictional broadcaster ?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Agreed - and we have two of them.

They would be transformed with an LSD.

Matteeboy

JACKO -except that review wasn't Top Gears/JCs review - it was an extract from another well known (not Evo) mag.

M3s have an LSD. Not hard to get Birds to fit a Quaife on any RWD BM too - a lot of 335i owners have stuck them on to great effect.

john banks

Matteeboy, I have no idea about the shopping Audis, talking about the S/RS models and comparing them to the equivalent BMW. Except the 135i, the S/RS Audis have a considerable advantage in the specification of their brake calipers. I've also not seen any on runflats, but maybe some of the late S/RS models do have them? I know the M cars don't.

I'm puzzled by the "full fly by wire" thing on the GTR in terms of handling. There is no handling tech that isn't on many other German cars, I'd love for someone to inform my misunderstanding of the GTR's electronics which I know a bit about... I'm not asking you to like it, but have you actually driven one before deciding? I think you'd be surprised if you liked the Evo.

zip106

A-HAAAAAA...... and he has a Buck Rogers toilet.

Fictional, you say?

I thought he was alive and very real, posting on ScoobyNet

zip106

Plumpers Monthly?

They always have a very interesting and informative page dedicated to motors... the only reason I buy it.
Obviously.

john banks

Another question Matteeboy, if the GTR is a triumph of power over handling, why does it do such quick lap times with a lower power to weight ratio? What deficiencies (if you've driven one) do you think there are in the handling? To me, they are too much rear wheel drive bias and stock tyres that have a bias to dry handling. They aren't the steering, the control weights, the communication from the chassis, the progressiveness when it slides, the ability to threshold brake, the ability to influence grip smoothly at both axles from driver inputs. These are what I call handling. They are dumbed slightly due to weight and a turbocharged engine, but nowhere near as much as you think.

john banks

I'll add my thoughts on "handling" of BMWs that I've driven.

The steering is fairly weighty on the sporty models, but presumably for the reason of tracking easily in a straight line and not writhing in the driver's hands at cruise, it has quite a deadness to it on initially turning the wheel. I find that in poor conditions at turn in that the initial steering feel reduces confidence and doesn't tell you much about the surface of the tarmac. When braking repeatedly on a B-road, the steering starts to shake as pad material deposits on the discs. Additionally, when you hit bumps, the tyres lose contact with the road too easily as the suspension is oversprung and doesn't have enough travel. This also reduces confidence and ability to change direction. Finally, the lack of vertical body control on a bumpy bend makes it difficult to feel through the steering as you're using it to stay in your seat, and you can end up oscillating the throttle position as you bounce in your seat.

I have felt these problems in E46 M3, E60 M5 and 335i. The last two weren't bad, but the problems were still there.

You never read these problems (except the brakes) from journalists.

Take a slated Audi down the same road and the Quattro drivetrain and superior brakes mask some of these problems.

So what good is steering feel if you have to hold it firmly to stay in your seat? What good is steering feel when your front tyres are skipping across bumpy tarmac?

I love BMWs on A and M roads, but on B roads they are poor. Add mud and rain and they are crap. I still like them, but let's not pretend they are remotely the ultimate driving machine.

Matteeboy

Blimey - a salvo worthy of an MLRS fired there John!

I do most of my BM driving in B roads - maybe the surfaces are better here but I find it very good indeed. Maybe my "small" 17" wheels, M sport suspension and non RFTs help but I never find the wheels skittering. The 335i and 335d are the only ones (and the M3) NOT to have electrical assistance in the steering and I can tell - weighty, precise steering.

Mud and rain? Not an issue until the tyres are near replacement time.

Clearly I'm not comparing a GT-R to a 3 series BM - that would be silly - but it seems your priorities are for outright shove rather than handling finesse. Hence a GT-R over a 911, an Audi over a BM, etc.

Different things matter to different people. That's why we don't all drive the same car.

StickyMicky

Ill take this thanks.



But maybe in something other than nuclear brain melt yellow.

StickyMicky

john banks

The 335i I tried was on ridiculous 19" run flats. It wasn't as bad as I expected from that combination though.

Do you have the LSD on your 335d? If not, how do you make quick progress from a junction in the wet and mud? Again, maybe your smaller wheels help here.

Matteeboy

JB - I think smaller wheels make a LOT of difference TBH. Not driven a BM with 19s (apart from an X5) but even 18s make the ride worse and more harsh.

Traction control is lively from junctions but it's effective. On one junction (short slip onto the A30 dual carriageway) I've had it flashing for over 5 seconds non stop. Not an issue.