Meat "is not ethical" - BBC Breakfast
25 November 2010, 04:37 PM
#61
And I'll tell you what - thinking about all that brings back some very happy memories.
A kid with not a care in the world, fishing a river with some worms he got from the garden.
The worms were also caught using water and fairy liquid - because I'd have been strung up had I dug - kid or no kid
OK I understand the technically bit
But why does she refer to herself as vegetarian?
Daft bird
25 November 2010, 04:56 PM
#64
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Being a 'veggie' is a life style choice (which means are you intelligent enough to make an informed decision?),that means you are capable and intelligent enough to acknowledge the faults with being a 'meateater'. i.e Cruelty to animals,the possible damage to the environment ..... Do you accept there is absolutely, NO cruelty to the slaughter of animals or even NO possible damage to the environment? If NOT, you truly are a DUMB SH*T!
I am not a complete 'VEGGIE' but I try to avoid meat where possible,soya substitutes are a very good alternative.You only need to try them! (if you eat Mc'dees,etc (that means burger (****e) king,pizzaworld,etc. wotever.... (arsehole's an lips)) you CANNOT complain about soya altenatives.
p.s the op was about sustainability, NOT wot mankind was designed to eat.
I a-poll-oh-gise fer any bad spellin/grammer,etc..
I guess I'm a product of my environment..
I am not a complete 'VEGGIE' but I try to avoid meat where possible,soya substitutes are a very good alternative.You only need to try them! (if you eat Mc'dees,etc (that means burger (****e) king,pizzaworld,etc. wotever.... (arsehole's an lips)) you CANNOT complain about soya altenatives.
p.s the op was about sustainability, NOT wot mankind was designed to eat.
I a-poll-oh-gise fer any bad spellin/grammer,etc..
I guess I'm a product of my environment..
25 November 2010, 06:47 PM
#65
Being a 'veggie' is a life style choice (which means are you intelligent enough to make an informed decision?),that means you are capable and intelligent enough to acknowledge the faults with being a 'meateater'. i.e Cruelty to animals,the possible damage to the environment ..... Do you accept there is absolutely, NO cruelty to the slaughter of animals or even NO possible damage to the environment? If NOT, you truly are a DUMB SH*T!
I am not a complete 'VEGGIE' but I try to avoid meat where possible,soya substitutes are a very good alternative.You only need to try them! (if you eat Mc'dees,etc (that means burger (****e) king,pizzaworld,etc. wotever.... (arsehole's an lips)) you CANNOT complain about soya altenatives.
p.s the op was about sustainability, NOT wot mankind was designed to eat.
I a-poll-oh-gise fer any bad spellin/grammer,etc.. I guess I'm a product of my environment..
I am not a complete 'VEGGIE' but I try to avoid meat where possible,soya substitutes are a very good alternative.You only need to try them! (if you eat Mc'dees,etc (that means burger (****e) king,pizzaworld,etc. wotever.... (arsehole's an lips)) you CANNOT complain about soya altenatives.
p.s the op was about sustainability, NOT wot mankind was designed to eat.
I a-poll-oh-gise fer any bad spellin/grammer,etc..
I guess I'm a product of my environment..Anyway, if people didn't eat meat, the cows and sheep you see in the fields about you (probable townie-type) would not exist.
Is it better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all?
Death will come to all of those who are given the gift of life. Would you deny life to those animals whose purpose is that of being eaten?
I am guessing your answer is probably going to be yes - and that is your choice.
Last edited by cster; 25 November 2010 at 06:48 PM.
25 November 2010, 08:06 PM
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It cracks me up that the best argument veggies can come up with is that you must be unintelligent unless you make a concious choice not to eat meat.
What I find more amazing is that this view isn't immediately cast out by the masses. I mean, this is absolutely no different to the greenies suggesting that anyone who doesn't drive a prius (or better yet, cycle to work) is an unintelligent oaf with a low IQ. We wouldn't tolerate that as a "green" argument, would we?
Get. A. Grip.
I'd be willing to bet a good amount of money that some of the greatest minds in the world are meat eaters. Suitably mashed up and spoon fed to him, I bet Hawkin's loves a good burger. And why was Newton sitting under the tree as opposed to picking the apples to eat. That's right, he was probably working off a Sunday roast in the peace of the orchard.
I, for one, like meat and enjoy it's taste. More importantly though, I believe that my body benefits from a diet that is higher in protein than starchy carbs and such like. I try to eat my 5 helpings of fruit and veg a day and avoid hidden sugars in sauces, etc. The staple of my diet however is chicken, fish, eggs and (less often) red meat and those foods have done the human race no harm for a very long time.
As for the animals.......fvck them. There is this thing called the Food Chain...and we sit at the top of it. Don't think for a minute that a hungry lion wouldn't munch you if given half a chance. That is their instinct and it's yours as well. I'd bet 99%+ of bonafide Veggies would eat meat if it became a life and death situation. For crying out loud, the survivors of the Andes plane crash ate each other!
What I find more amazing is that this view isn't immediately cast out by the masses. I mean, this is absolutely no different to the greenies suggesting that anyone who doesn't drive a prius (or better yet, cycle to work) is an unintelligent oaf with a low IQ. We wouldn't tolerate that as a "green" argument, would we?
Get. A. Grip.
I'd be willing to bet a good amount of money that some of the greatest minds in the world are meat eaters. Suitably mashed up and spoon fed to him, I bet Hawkin's loves a good burger. And why was Newton sitting under the tree as opposed to picking the apples to eat. That's right, he was probably working off a Sunday roast in the peace of the orchard.
I, for one, like meat and enjoy it's taste. More importantly though, I believe that my body benefits from a diet that is higher in protein than starchy carbs and such like. I try to eat my 5 helpings of fruit and veg a day and avoid hidden sugars in sauces, etc. The staple of my diet however is chicken, fish, eggs and (less often) red meat and those foods have done the human race no harm for a very long time.
As for the animals.......fvck them. There is this thing called the Food Chain...and we sit at the top of it. Don't think for a minute that a hungry lion wouldn't munch you if given half a chance. That is their instinct and it's yours as well. I'd bet 99%+ of bonafide Veggies would eat meat if it became a life and death situation. For crying out loud, the survivors of the Andes plane crash ate each other!
Last edited by LG John; 25 November 2010 at 08:08 PM.
25 November 2010, 08:07 PM
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If you go round shooting rabbits and pheasants (or kangaroos) and then eat them, I don't really see the problem.
Anyway, if people didn't eat meat, the cows and sheep you see in the fields about you (probable townie-type) would not exist.
Is it better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all?
Death will come to all of those who are given the gift of life. Would you deny life to those animals whose purpose is that of being eaten?
I am guessing your answer is probably going to be yes - and that is your choice.
Anyway, if people didn't eat meat, the cows and sheep you see in the fields about you (probable townie-type) would not exist.
Is it better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all?
Death will come to all of those who are given the gift of life. Would you deny life to those animals whose purpose is that of being eaten?
I am guessing your answer is probably going to be yes - and that is your choice.
25 November 2010, 08:12 PM
#69
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--------, the bottom line is that it would not be economically or socially viable to have every meat eating tom, dick and harry parading around the countryside with guns or crossbows to kill their evening meal. It would also be pretty wasteful as much of the meat would rot before eaten (i.e. even a family wouldn't get through a whole cow).
For economies of scale animals are kept together, killed together, packaged into smaller parts and shipped to said non-gun wielding meat eaters. It just makes sense. However, I accept suffering should be kept to a minimum where possible.
For economies of scale animals are kept together, killed together, packaged into smaller parts and shipped to said non-gun wielding meat eaters. It just makes sense. However, I accept suffering should be kept to a minimum where possible.
25 November 2010, 08:18 PM
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It cracks me up that the best argument veggies can come up with is that you must be unintelligent unless you make a concious choice not to eat meat.
What I find more amazing is that this view isn't immediately cast out by the masses. I mean, this is absolutely no different to the greenies suggesting that anyone who doesn't drive a prius (or better yet, cycle to work) is an unintelligent oaf with a low IQ. We wouldn't tolerate that as a "green" argument, would we?
Get. A. Grip.
I'd be willing to bet a good amount of money that some of the greatest minds in the world are meat eaters. Suitably mashed up and spoon fed to him, I bet Hawkin's loves a good burger. And why was Newton sitting under the tree as opposed to picking the apples to eat. That's right, he was probably working off a Sunday roast in the peace of the orchard.
I, for one, like meat and enjoy it's taste. More importantly though, I believe that my body benefits from a diet that is higher in protein than starchy carbs and such like. I try to eat my 5 helpings of fruit and veg a day and avoid hidden sugars in sauces, etc. The staple of my diet however is chicken, fish, eggs and (less often) red meat and those foods have done the human race no harm for a very long time.
As for the animals.......fvck them. There is this thing called the Food Chain...and we sit at the top of it. Don't think for a minute that a hungry lion wouldn't munch you if given half a chance. That is their instinct and it's yours as well. I'd bet 99%+ of bonafide Veggies would eat meat if it became a life and death situation. For crying out loud, the survivors of the Andes plane crash ate each other!
What I find more amazing is that this view isn't immediately cast out by the masses. I mean, this is absolutely no different to the greenies suggesting that anyone who doesn't drive a prius (or better yet, cycle to work) is an unintelligent oaf with a low IQ. We wouldn't tolerate that as a "green" argument, would we?
Get. A. Grip.
I'd be willing to bet a good amount of money that some of the greatest minds in the world are meat eaters. Suitably mashed up and spoon fed to him, I bet Hawkin's loves a good burger. And why was Newton sitting under the tree as opposed to picking the apples to eat. That's right, he was probably working off a Sunday roast in the peace of the orchard.
I, for one, like meat and enjoy it's taste. More importantly though, I believe that my body benefits from a diet that is higher in protein than starchy carbs and such like. I try to eat my 5 helpings of fruit and veg a day and avoid hidden sugars in sauces, etc. The staple of my diet however is chicken, fish, eggs and (less often) red meat and those foods have done the human race no harm for a very long time.
As for the animals.......fvck them. There is this thing called the Food Chain...and we sit at the top of it. Don't think for a minute that a hungry lion wouldn't munch you if given half a chance. That is their instinct and it's yours as well. I'd bet 99%+ of bonafide Veggies would eat meat if it became a life and death situation. For crying out loud, the survivors of the Andes plane crash ate each other!
25 November 2010, 08:21 PM
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Indeed it is cause and effect: A greater % of vegetarains actively monitor their diet than the % of the average meat eating population, so tend to be healthier. For example I don't think I ever recall seeing or hearing of an obese vegetarian. That's a lifestyle issue not a food type issue.
I take no supplements, never have - I sail through physicals despite the slight overweight thing going on . I *do* cycle to work, but that's 'cos I enjoy it and it's a great form of exercise.
I find the way animals are treated as part of the food production process cruel and unethical and made a personal choice to not eat meat some time ago partly for this reason. The others are: the taste, texture, look... I personally find it distasteful.
I would not force my diet on anyone else, but only vegetarian food is served in my house (my house, my rules) - it doesn't breach ethical boundaries to serve non-meat dishes to non-vegetarians as it would the other way 'round.
25 November 2010, 08:23 PM
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--------, the bottom line is that it would not be economically or socially viable to have every meat eating tom, dick and harry parading around the countryside with guns or crossbows to kill their evening meal. It would also be pretty wasteful as much of the meat would rot before eaten (i.e. even a family wouldn't get through a whole cow).
For economies of scale animals are kept together, killed together, packaged into smaller parts and shipped to said non-gun wielding meat eaters. It just makes sense. However, I accept suffering should be kept to a minimum where possible.
For economies of scale animals are kept together, killed together, packaged into smaller parts and shipped to said non-gun wielding meat eaters. It just makes sense. However, I accept suffering should be kept to a minimum where possible.
25 November 2010, 08:29 PM
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Well it's a good thing there is something called economics which is born on a principal called supply and demand.
Simply put, if it is truly becoming difficult to meet the demand, then the supply falls behind and the price will automatically adjust until the demand falls (because people can't afford it).
You have to pay to eat healthy. I used to eat a lot of simple foods such as pasta and rice dishes (and a lot of junk too). I increased my intake of whole foods and in particular fruit and veg earlier in the year. Our weekly food bill basically doubled and much of that is because of the price of fruit, veg, steak and fish in particular. Low income families simply couldn't not eat the way we eat.
You argue the economics of matters but the economics will take care of themselves. Ultimately, you are an animal activist and that is what it comes down to.
Simply put, if it is truly becoming difficult to meet the demand, then the supply falls behind and the price will automatically adjust until the demand falls (because people can't afford it).
You have to pay to eat healthy. I used to eat a lot of simple foods such as pasta and rice dishes (and a lot of junk too). I increased my intake of whole foods and in particular fruit and veg earlier in the year. Our weekly food bill basically doubled and much of that is because of the price of fruit, veg, steak and fish in particular. Low income families simply couldn't not eat the way we eat.
You argue the economics of matters but the economics will take care of themselves. Ultimately, you are an animal activist and that is what it comes down to.
25 November 2010, 08:46 PM
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Well it's a good thing there is something called economics which is born on a principal called supply and demand.
Simply put, if it is truly becoming difficult to meet the demand, then the supply falls behind and the price will automatically adjust until the demand falls (because people can't afford it).
You have to pay to eat healthy. I used to eat a lot of simple foods such as pasta and rice dishes (and a lot of junk too). I increased my intake of whole foods and in particular fruit and veg earlier in the year. Our weekly food bill basically doubled and much of that is because of the price of fruit, veg, steak and fish in particular. Low income families simply couldn't not eat the way we eat.
You argue the economics of matters but the economics will take care of themselves. Ultimately, you are an animal activist and that is what it comes down to.
Simply put, if it is truly becoming difficult to meet the demand, then the supply falls behind and the price will automatically adjust until the demand falls (because people can't afford it).
You have to pay to eat healthy. I used to eat a lot of simple foods such as pasta and rice dishes (and a lot of junk too). I increased my intake of whole foods and in particular fruit and veg earlier in the year. Our weekly food bill basically doubled and much of that is because of the price of fruit, veg, steak and fish in particular. Low income families simply couldn't not eat the way we eat.
You argue the economics of matters but the economics will take care of themselves. Ultimately, you are an animal activist and that is what it comes down to.
As for manipulating the (excessive) price of "meat alternatives" that is a question for capitalists (maybe yourself???) Not veggies!
Your obviously part of the problem (you blame the wrong people) not part of the cure.
25 November 2010, 08:49 PM
#75
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This is why restaurants have menus. Freedom of choice is a great thing. 
These guys come across as fannies though tbh... Do gooders. Would be different if there were people on these programs 'bigging meat up', but there aren't. These people don't have very exciting lives, they prefer to get involved with other peoples'.
These guys come across as fannies though tbh... Do gooders. Would be different if there were people on these programs 'bigging meat up', but there aren't. These people don't have very exciting lives, they prefer to get involved with other peoples'.
25 November 2010, 08:58 PM
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This is why restaurants have menus. Freedom of choice is a great thing.
These guys come across as fannies though tbh... Do gooders. Would be different if there were people on these programs 'bigging meat up', but there aren't. These people don't have very exciting lives, they prefer to get involved with other peoples'.
These guys come across as fannies though tbh... Do gooders. Would be different if there were people on these programs 'bigging meat up', but there aren't. These people don't have very exciting lives, they prefer to get involved with other peoples'.
How would you ethically/economically "big up" meat?
25 November 2010, 09:01 PM
#77
I usually find the people who use this as a reason for not eating meat are quite happy wearing their leather shoes, or eating the battery-farmed egg (not knowing where it came from is no excuse) , having milk in their tea, thinking that they are some how not as responsible for animal suffering.
This kind of hypocrasy makes me laugh.
25 November 2010, 09:10 PM
#78
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Then why aren't you Vegan? The milking of cows and farming of chickens for eggs for example is no more ethical than killing them - it's all horrendous for the animal.
I usually find the people who use this as a reason for not eating meat are quite happy wearing their leather shoes, or eating the battery-farmed egg (not knowing where it came from is no excuse) , having milk in their tea, thinking that they are some how not as responsible for animal suffering.
This kind of hypocrasy makes me laugh.
I usually find the people who use this as a reason for not eating meat are quite happy wearing their leather shoes, or eating the battery-farmed egg (not knowing where it came from is no excuse) , having milk in their tea, thinking that they are some how not as responsible for animal suffering.
This kind of hypocrasy makes me laugh.
Free range eggs only and cows have to be treated very well as part of the milk making process or the quality drops considerably. The farmers are ALWAYS checked (every time they get their milk collected) for the quality, so economics forces them to treat the cows well.
25 November 2010, 09:12 PM
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Then why aren't you Vegan? The milking of cows and farming of chickens for eggs for example is no more ethical than killing them - it's all horrendous for the animal.
I usually find the people who use this as a reason for not eating meat are quite happy wearing their leather shoes, or eating the battery-farmed egg (not knowing where it came from is no excuse) , having milk in their tea, thinking that they are some how not as responsible for animal suffering.
This kind of hypocrasy makes me laugh.
I usually find the people who use this as a reason for not eating meat are quite happy wearing their leather shoes, or eating the battery-farmed egg (not knowing where it came from is no excuse) , having milk in their tea, thinking that they are some how not as responsible for animal suffering.
This kind of hypocrasy makes me laugh.
This kind of argument is embarrassing and typical of the un-educated (working class).
25 November 2010, 09:28 PM
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25 November 2010, 09:28 PM
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You have to pay to eat healthy. I used to eat a lot of simple foods such as pasta and rice dishes (and a lot of junk too). I increased my intake of whole foods and in particular fruit and veg earlier in the year. Our weekly food bill basically doubled and much of that is because of the price of fruit, veg, steak and fish in particular. Low income families simply couldn't not eat the way we eat.
What were you eating before your changed your eating habits, bags of sand?!
25 November 2010, 09:31 PM
#83
25 November 2010, 09:35 PM
#84
http://animalrights.about.com/od/ani.../MilkFacts.htm
Quality milk doesn't have to come from happy cows.
25 November 2010, 09:41 PM
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Do you know this for a fact? It's just there is plenty of literature that suggests otherwise:
http://animalrights.about.com/od/ani.../MilkFacts.htm
Quality milk doesn't have to come from happy cows.
http://animalrights.about.com/od/ani.../MilkFacts.htm
Quality milk doesn't have to come from happy cows.
Yes - I used to provide IT Support for Dairy Farmers of Great Britain and had some LONG discussions about this. Plus I also got to see the actual figures they use and the very stiff penalties that can be applied.
The milk is checked every time and the better the milk, the more they are paid.
It's not an ideal world, and I accept the limitations of pure ethics in any kind of large society. I choose not to eat meat for a variety of reasons, not just ethical. I respect other people's viewpoints and likewise expect them to respect mine.
25 November 2010, 10:07 PM
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Is there any possiblity these people would prefer the poorer less developed countries to go for the all veg diet first ?
in maybe the same way china should be banned forthwith from producing co2
in maybe the same way china should be banned forthwith from producing co2
25 November 2010, 10:30 PM
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What do you mean by choice?
How many people on here eat meat 'by choice'. It's just what we grow up with and what we are used to. Not many people grow up as vegetarians and then choose to eat meat!! Much more likely the other way around.
There is a large swathe of India (typically South) where they have been vegetarian for generations as long as they can record. It's just how they are and they don't understand people who eat meat. It is loosely religious.
Indeed in India, eating meat is a negative state. Indians are vegetarians or non-vegetarians - a negative state!
Then there are Buddhists who are vegetarian from a religious perspective - so Bhutan is mostly vegetarian.
How many people on here eat meat 'by choice'. It's just what we grow up with and what we are used to. Not many people grow up as vegetarians and then choose to eat meat!! Much more likely the other way around.
There is a large swathe of India (typically South) where they have been vegetarian for generations as long as they can record. It's just how they are and they don't understand people who eat meat. It is loosely religious.
Indeed in India, eating meat is a negative state. Indians are vegetarians or non-vegetarians - a negative state!
Then there are Buddhists who are vegetarian from a religious perspective - so Bhutan is mostly vegetarian.