Originally Posted by cster

Sure - why not?
It is not his fault the government pay him to sit around with too much time on his hands.
Good luck to him for showing a little initiative - who knows, he may even get a taste for work.
And if not, perhaps we can think of him as an Economic Jihadist.

Originally Posted by **************

You wont be wondering that when he eventually gets caught and banged up for tax evasion. If I did cash on the side work i'd declare every bloody penny, not because i'm mr goody two shoes but because I know with my luck i'd be one of the ones caught and done big time for it so just not worth the risk to me.

Originally Posted by hodgy0_2

i don't follow your logic -- cookstar stated

"People that defraud the tax system in this country are no better than common benefit thieves, IMO."

you disagreed -- the inference being that people who defraud the tax system are not benefit thieves or indeed thieves at all.

but in my example - which you seem to agree with, I have pointed out a “benefit thief" -- i.e. does not declare his income and as such receives benefits fraudulently is a thief, in the same way people who defraud the TAX system


or are you simply stating the all people who receives benefits are thieves

Originally Posted by **************

You wont be wondering that when he eventually gets caught and banged up for tax evasion. If I did cash on the side work i'd declare every bloody penny, not because i'm mr goody two shoes but because I know with my luck i'd be one of the ones caught and done big time for it so just not worth the risk to me.

Originally Posted by cster

Here we go...
In disagreeing with Cookstar "People that defraud the tax system in this country are no better than common benefit thieves, IMO." I am stating the opinion that they may be the same or better - this being the exclusive of "no better". If you wish to equate some one who is a drain on the system with some one who is not - that is your viewpoint I guess.
The only people here who have called anyone thieves are yourself and Cookstar. I have done no such thing. To do so would be to impose my value system on someone else and since I am not some-one who thinks he is morally superior to others, I will not engage in this type of behaviour.
Perhaps I should have put quotation marks around the "benefit thief" for your comprehension, but since I didn't actually use the term, that would be difficult.
In making the post, my point is that the "benefit thief" is merely acting in a way that the system economically incentivises him to do. To be fair, it would be something of a surprise if he acted in any other manner (IMO).

Originally Posted by hodgy0_2

i have a slight headache now -- but i think you've clarified the point

Originally Posted by pslewis

Les ..... it's your heroes in control now - I very much doubt that they will do anything annoying to you

Originally Posted by Leslie

I thought you knew by now that being apolitical, I just don't think that way.

Your style of blind obeisance to your chosen party has been shown to be a big mistake and when dealing with politicians one cannot place any kind of trust in any of them when you think about it!

Les

Originally Posted by Paul Habgood

So 'legitimising' them is an answer? - what exactly is the question Perhaps the question is 'How to encourage and indeed increase illegal immigration by rewarding those who have already broken the laws and are illegally here.

I wonder if the study takes into account the money lost due to unpaid NI and tax the cost to the health service and public services in general and the revenue generated by getting a similar number of unemployed filling the roles to earn their keep.

A big nettle to grasp but surely a better option all round

Originally Posted by cookstar

People that defraud the tax system in this country are no better than common benefit thieves, IMO.

Originally Posted by tony de wonderful

Trout has a point. I mean the market demands more and more people, it demands participation....it always make economic sense to support immigration, we could have the whole surface of the UK like London and have a 500 million population here and we would still want MORE people 'for the economy'.

I doubt Trout lives in a crowded area full of eastern europeans of his kids go to a school where they are the only non-muslims though.

How much 'economic growth' do we need or want?

Is that the only way to measure our existence?

Originally Posted by Lee247

I pay my fair share of taxes, I can't say I do it happily but I pay it.
I can't slag anyone off for not declaring all and pocketing some. It's not the paying of the tax that bothers me so much, it is what is done with it and that is probably why some folks don't declare everything.
Prime example, ***** paid for by benefits thread. Also, MP expenses. Why the hell should I work all the hours that God sends to pay my due, for some good for nothing (and I am including MPs in that statement) to take it for nowt.

Originally Posted by Paul Habgood

when you have 2m unemployed - 2m claiming £65.00 per week minimum then how can that make good sense to bring in workers from overseas to fill the non specialist roles that the incumbent unemployed could do???

It makes no sense whatsoever.
Immigration would be fine if we did not have so many people unemployed and taking from the system. Paying benefits or benefits + wage (wage made up from the employer) would be cheaper for the country and employer than using illegal labour - if not close to it. and illegal labour is just that supporting the cheating employers and using the labour undercutting legit firms who pay and use legal staff paying illegal workers who do not pay into the system because they cannot.

Rewarding illegals by making them legit is just wrong! sends out the wrong messages to others to try it because it pays off and encourages more of the same behaviour! it perpetuates itself and will involve more and more money and resources to deal with. More and more people entering the country who we know nothing about or have a clue to their intentions - that is wrong.


As i said it is a tough nettle to grasp but someone needs to.

Originally Posted by Gregsti01

I have paid a lot of tax in my life,now when the banks decided that our wages should be paid in their banks they use our money without benefit to the account holder then give us crap if we go overdrawn.Well if we got paid cash every week/month the banks would make f-all out of us! Ok so a few people get cash in hand what the hell,anything you buy has tax on it so you are still paying 49% or so into the pot.Pikeys still have to buy fuel to drag their chrome plated sh-t vans around,sorry forgot they steal the diesel,but someone paid the vat originally

Originally Posted by Trout

There is no easy answer other than surrounding the UK with razor wire and armed guards and kick the rest of them out. So that'll cost well in excess of £5bn and then what?

Originally Posted by Trout

The original contention was on the subject of illegal immigrants - that is a completely different issue to asylum seekers.

Originally Posted by GlesgaKiss

Don't see what the problem is with immigration. There should be no boundaries to people coming in whatsoever other than criminal record.

However, for that to work properly you need to stop benefits. These people don't just come from the furthest corners of the world, through about 20 countries to get to the UK because they're 'escaping persecution', or whatever they claim. They come here because it is obviously attractive based on how easy it is to live while doing minimal work. Get rid of that incentive and you get rid of the problems we have IMO. The right kind of people will come here. People who contribute to society. Look at the way America developed.

Originally Posted by GlesgaKiss

Don't see what the problem is with immigration. There should be no boundaries to people coming in whatsoever other than criminal record.

However, for that to work properly you need to stop benefits. These people don't just come from the furthest corners of the world, through about 20 countries to get to the UK because they're 'escaping persecution', or whatever they claim. They come here because it is obviously attractive based on how easy it is to live while doing minimal work. Get rid of that incentive and you get rid of the problems we have IMO. The right kind of people will come here. People who contribute to society. Look at the way America developed.

Originally Posted by Trout

Paul your logic is impeccable - your reality is questionable.

Many, many of the 'illegals' do things that so many of the 2m unemployed do not want to do. It is also proven that illegals have generated a greater level of economic activity.

There is no easy answer other than surrounding the UK with razor wire and armed guards and kick the rest of them out. So that'll cost well in excess of £5bn and then what?

Not a place where I would want to live.

Originally Posted by cster

That's a bit unfair Leslie.
You can always trust them to f*ck you over.

Originally Posted by ALi-B

HMRC are so backlogged they can't properly chase all these cash businesses and bedroom traders (ebayers). In some cash businesses in hostile areas, tax inspectors have to get security protection and often refused access to the premsies. By the time an order is served the business has shut up and moved on. IN some cases HMRC tax inspector actually avoid going to certain areas because they know its going to be difficult to make a case due to a messy complex or non-existant paper trail. So instead focus on easy targets who make a simple error on the tax return.

Thing is, it may seem a harmless bit of cash on the side. But it amounts to billions of lost revenue...think about it, if 20% of the population saved a hundred quid in tax by dealing in cash, the government has lost £1.24 billion.

In the end it cost us all more, because the government has to recoup that by charging us MORE tax. We can't demand welfare and moan about benefit cuts and then at the same time thinks it ok to dabble in a bit of cash on the side.

It even happens on Scoobynet - look in the sales section at some of the more regular "private" sellers, admittedly the worst were non members being the typical shysters ('til we blocked them). But even so, if its obvious to me that someone selling stuff on here regularly is doing it as part of an income, then it wouldn't take much for the HMRC to follow it up by being pretend buyers......

Originally Posted by Norman D. Landings

I must say that I've recently seen a few people declare on here that they were pleased with only having paid x amount of pounds in tax for the year. What they meant was that they'd managed to avoid paying more tax by not declaring it. I think I'm right in saying that that is the definition of tax evasion rather than avoidance.

In other words, it's criminal activity, plain and simple, planned and executed. Personally I regard the people who do so as criminal scum in the same bracket as any other common thieves.