Ant

I agree they're in full time nursery you have no reason not to work

Hysteria1983

In theory it doesn't cost much more to feed 4 children than it does 2. And if they are popping them out so regular, then the cot/highchair/puschair should all be fine to use a few times if well looked after. The money that keeps getting handed out for each child just isn't necessary, and I doubt it's even spent on the children/baby.

cster

Hopefully they are spending it on booze and ****, so that at least they are putting something back into the system
Admittedly perhaps, a rather round about way of building up self-esteem.

fatscoobfella1

iTrader: (1)

Half the problem is that there is hardly any difference in benefit cash and work pay..

If the average wage was a lot better and the dole scum could see a massive difference in lifestyle between the two,then it might get them off there workshy asses..

Also,its so expensive to just live a modest life in this country that dole scum do need what looks like a lot of money to live..

Personally,i would put a cap on benefit.So if you had 1 kid or 6 you would still get the same money..

Hysteria1983

I agree, it might stop people bringing children into the world when they cannot afford to.

Silver Angel

not quite sure that right when i left my husband i went n stayed with my parents until i got back on my feet I claimed a while till i got sorted but the csa was involved and any monies i received from them affected my benefits as did any help that my ex gave me as in extra money for nappies, clothes etc i had to declare to the income support so not a profitable lifestyle as suggested

Lydia72

Hard to say. I worked for the Benefits Agency in a deprived area, 'genuine' claimants were in the minority (ironically they could be a bigger pain to deal with, typical comment was "I'm not like all these other spongers, I've paid my taxes").

75%, perhaps more, of what I dealt with were people who did not want a job but I don't think it is a straightforward case of just being too lazy.
If you have been brought up in a family where no one works, live in an area where no one works, have no idea how to improve your prospects etc it is completely alien to be in employment.

There was a scheme (in Hull I think) where an ex-teacher was taking groups of kids round places like the docks and explaining about different jobs, then he showed them round a health club, to try and explain that if they worked hard and earned money they could go to nice places.
I used to be friends with a woman who became a single parent, at the age of twelve her daughter had never once been to the cinema let alone had a holiday, because it was just not normal in her circle.

If it was a case of not having children when you can't afford them then I would not be here. My maternal grandmother had fourteen kids and they lived in complete and utter poverty (my grandad worked two jobs to try and support them, no benefits). It took my mum a very long time to get herself out of that poverty but the point is that she knew she did want a career and a house and food on the table.

I don't think it is as simple as cutting benefits, taking kids away etc. It's about educating the next generation that it's not normal to just live on the dole their whole life, to do that you need to show them a better alternative.

Silver Angel

well said

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

There must be a way of food vouchers / clothing vouchers / utility vouchers and minimal cash PLUS 20hours or so community service per week (if able bodied) to qualify for benefits

SJ_Skyline

There needs to be a such stigma re-attached to the benefits culture whereby one is so ashamed to be part of the culture that they would do whatever they could to get away from it. I say re-attached as it existed once.

Wagon Gaz

iTrader: (18)

Problem is we are already short of 10,000 foster carers, which means the one who need to be removed for their own safety cant be looked after let alone the ones who they "cant afford"

Gregsti01

iTrader: (1)

Cap benefits to £400 a week per couple,if they split spread payment between them,put a little lead in their a-ses with a shot gun.I have two breeding pig daughters f@ck me right off.

Lydia72

We tried doing the food vouchers thing, it didn't really work.
There was/ is something called the Social Fund, it's not regular dole money but is payable under special circumstances.
I.e. someone is given their fortnightly dole but loses it ("I left it on the bus" seemed to be number one excuse for some strange reason) so claimant applies for a Crisis Loan to help them until next dole day.

The claimant used to ask for an amount, we would quiz them as to why they wanted it, totally ignoring the amount they asked for.
We had a formula for how much money to give based on how many mouths to feed. Most claimants were on gas and electricity meters so we would allow so much for tokens for that too.
Claimant would sit waiting for a giro for £100 (or whatever they had asked for) and we would give them two giros - one for £30 made payable to Kwik Save and the other for £10 payable to the Post Office.

We knew that 9 times out of 10 the claimant would be standing outside Kwik Save trying to sell their £30 giro for £25 or £20 or however much they could get for it.

Similar thing with clothing vouchers, I can remember kids at school having vouchers for their uniforms. There's always someone who will sell them for less than face value.

The media like to show people living on benefits having the life of Riley.
In reality most people are really struggling to get by, the ones with flashy cars, designer gear etc are not just living off benefits - they always have another income.

Jamz3k

Today one of my regular customers asked me to hold a TV for him for 2 weeks as he is waiting for the benefits office to give him the cash for a new TV. I asked him how he does it, he just said that he told them his TV was faulty and thats that.

Nice little interest free loan there paid by us!

MMT WRX

its definitely correct

http://www.dsdni.gov.uk/index/csa/cm...s-benefits.htm

Silver Angel

well cant explain how my benefits were affected then
it was 1998 maybe things different now

MMT WRX

Sorry, yes I think it may even have changed this year. My neice has just had a baby and her boyfriend who had been pressing her to have a baby for ages decided to kick her in to touch about five weeks before it was due. She told me about the benefits thing last night. Does seem an odd thing in the present climate.

tony de wonderful

You mean a job.

tony de wonderful

The public sector is defacto welfare for the middle classes but everyone wants to pick on the council house dwellers?

Leslie

I think it is too late for education now. Something positive has to be done to dissuade that behaviour. They have to realise that it won't get them a meal and accommodation ticket for life!

Les

Hysteria1983

I have to agree, education won't work. I can't say how the learning could be enforced. If the gov hand out rewards or cash for people attending training or such like, maybe it would appeal to this sector. BUT as that's just more money being wasted it's just not sensible.

Something big needs to be done.

Jobseekers allowance is supposed to be a temporary thing to aid a person while looking for work, and benefits are supposed to provide people/families with the essentials.
Unfortunately the gov have made it far to easy for it to be a lifestyle choice, and quite a comfortable one at that.

Lydia72

No, I mean a career.

tony de wonderful

Please, we are all producers, we do JOBS.

'Career' is just some middle-class delusion, the pose that you do the job for reasons other than to earn a living.

tony de wonderful

But the Gov bails out middle class home-owners with low interest rates and QE. If that is not welfare then what is? Savers pay for it.

Lydia72

"Middle-class" would not apply in this case, my mum lived in a slum, she did not own a coat or a pair of shoes until she was eighteen years old. I would say that's somewhat below middle-class wouldn't you?

tony de wonderful

Well I don't want to get personal but more talk about the construct of 'career'.

She didn't want a 'job' but wanted a 'career'. What's the difference?

Lydia72

To me a 'job' is something you do for money, a 'career' is a profession that requires training/ distinct qualifications, sometimes the line between the two is blurred but that is my basic definition.

I worked in a supermarket, that was a job, I've never had a career.
If I had trained to be a teacher or a lawyer I would consider that a career.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

Your situation is that of a very similar one to mine a couple of years ago. On long term sick, dismissed because of a fault pertaining from the employer and had to try get by on next to nothing with a mortgage to pay.

Hope your situation does change, pm us if you want a natter about what I did away from the accusing eye of NSR

Leslie

You will have to explain what you mean by that, I am not familiar with how they get low interest rates or what you mean by QE.

Are you saying I am missing out???

Les

tony de wonderful

So is being Prime Minister just a job then?