Stephen Hawking
Space(time) is what came into being when the singularity expanded, according to the theory.
You have a failure of imagination, as do most of us, in that we can't visualise an explosion occuring except within a pre-existing space. The creation of space and matter in an instant was what the big bang was about.
You have a failure of imagination, as do most of us, in that we can't visualise an explosion occuring except within a pre-existing space. The creation of space and matter in an instant was what the big bang was about.
But that brings up many many many many other questions.
A lot of what scientists say is just taken as a given.
"there was nothing outside it"
What's 'nothing'?
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Scientists are very good at producing strings of mathematical statements which always seem to have something missing somewhere so that they cannot call it a proof. They then drag out a name for the missing bits out of the air and expect us to assume that they are 100% correct in what they say. The impression one gets is that they are not absolutely sure that they have seen the famous Boson yet!
The fact is of course, no one knows for sure one way or another. It is as always down to the individual to decide on his beliefs. To be honest to yourself,you have to accept what you decide is the answer, or more like what it is most likely to be.
Running a person down because his beliefs are different to your own does not prove a thing except perhaps that you are not really certain of what you say is the answer and you feel that you have to bolster up your own ideas. All down to self confidence of course!
Les
Yep, good program. Every part of my being expects future observations to demonstrate proof of an evolutionary, cyclic pregenesis. To me, it's simply intuitive; it feels right. I hope somebody then moves God outside of the cycle as an infinite pre-pregenesis, if only to give us something to discuss in NSR 2030.
TX.
I wonder how you can justify Hawking as being any more likely to know the real origins of it all than anyone else, scientist or a believer in an all powerful being.
Scientists are very good at producing strings of mathematical statements which always seem to have something missing somewhere so that they cannot call it a proof. They then drag out a name for the missing bits out of the air and expect us to assume that they are 100% correct in what they say. The impression one gets is that they are not absolutely sure that they have seen the famous Boson yet!
The fact is of course, no one knows for sure one way or another. It is as always down to the individual to decide on his beliefs. To be honest to yourself,you have to accept what you decide is the answer, or more like what it is most likely to be.
Running a person down because his beliefs are different to your own does not prove a thing except perhaps that you are not really certain of what you say is the answer and you feel that you have to bolster up your own ideas. All down to self confidence of course!
Les
Scientists are very good at producing strings of mathematical statements which always seem to have something missing somewhere so that they cannot call it a proof. They then drag out a name for the missing bits out of the air and expect us to assume that they are 100% correct in what they say. The impression one gets is that they are not absolutely sure that they have seen the famous Boson yet!
The fact is of course, no one knows for sure one way or another. It is as always down to the individual to decide on his beliefs. To be honest to yourself,you have to accept what you decide is the answer, or more like what it is most likely to be.
Running a person down because his beliefs are different to your own does not prove a thing except perhaps that you are not really certain of what you say is the answer and you feel that you have to bolster up your own ideas. All down to self confidence of course!
Les
I could never have close friends with religous beliefs. It just creeps me out that someone can believe in god. If I insisted the tooth fairy was real I'd be sectioned, it's no more rediculous.
It's like the scientology thing, most people will tell you they're crackers but it's probably more realistic than the christian god.
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I wonder how you can justify Hawking as being any more likely to know the real origins of it all than anyone else, scientist or a believer in an all powerful being.
Scientists are very good at producing strings of mathematical statements which always seem to have something missing somewhere so that they cannot call it a proof. They then drag out a name for the missing bits out of the air and expect us to assume that they are 100% correct in what they say. The impression one gets is that they are not absolutely sure that they have seen the famous Boson yet!
The fact is of course, no one knows for sure one way or another. It is as always down to the individual to decide on his beliefs. To be honest to yourself,you have to accept what you decide is the answer, or more like what it is most likely to be.
Running a person down because his beliefs are different to your own does not prove a thing except perhaps that you are not really certain of what you say is the answer and you feel that you have to bolster up your own ideas. All down to self confidence of course!
Les
Scientists are very good at producing strings of mathematical statements which always seem to have something missing somewhere so that they cannot call it a proof. They then drag out a name for the missing bits out of the air and expect us to assume that they are 100% correct in what they say. The impression one gets is that they are not absolutely sure that they have seen the famous Boson yet!
The fact is of course, no one knows for sure one way or another. It is as always down to the individual to decide on his beliefs. To be honest to yourself,you have to accept what you decide is the answer, or more like what it is most likely to be.
Running a person down because his beliefs are different to your own does not prove a thing except perhaps that you are not really certain of what you say is the answer and you feel that you have to bolster up your own ideas. All down to self confidence of course!
Les
You know what - as much as I don't understand people who have a 'religion', I probably understand these scientists even less.
(this thread is very, very old btw...)
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Here, have a read. This might help you understand.
http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
That's just noise!
Think of it like a pendulum ... at one end you have the big bang, after that things speed up (bottom of swing) then it slows down to a stop. At this point everything runs backwards toward the big bang again albeit in reverse.
TX.
TX.
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NIV - Genesis 1.*In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2*Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3*And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4*God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5*God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning —the first day.
3*And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4*God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5*God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning —the first day.
Last edited by JTaylor; Jul 5, 2012 at 09:33 PM.
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More a flippant remark to a news story, that got many knickers twisted, but it's got to 33 pages over the last 22 months.
Is that a SN record?
Bringing God (or gods) into it doesn't solve it either, just sidesteps the question. "God always existed" is not an answer to a scientific question, just a statement of faith. That is, taking something as a given on the basis of no evidence of any kind. Like believing in Santa or the Tooth Fairy.
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Bringing God (or gods) into it doesn't solve it either, just sidesteps the question. "God always existed" is not an answer to a scientific question, just a statement of faith. That is, taking something as a given on the basis of no evidence of any kind. Like believing in Santa or the Tooth Fairy.
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I believe religion started as an early form of law. Made up to try and get people to be good and live as decent human beings to be rewarded in the afterlife or face the consequences of an all seeing god. And also as a way to fob off natural disasters and such. It then didn't take people long to exploit this for money, power and greed.
I believe religion started as an early form of law. Made up to try and get people to be good and live as decent human beings to be rewarded in the afterlife or face the consequences of an all seeing god. And also as a way to fob off natural disasters and such. It then didn't take people long to exploit this for money, power and greed.
It's exactly like that with one difference - if you believe in God. The evidence for God and evidence for Santa are identical. The only reason why you think there's a difference is because you believe in one and not the other. But both are just superstition.
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While I agree with what you're saying about the scientists leaving bits out, I'd much rather go with the evolution of the universe rather than an imaginary figure doing it all.
I could never have close friends with religous beliefs. It just creeps me out that someone can believe in god. If I insisted the tooth fairy was real I'd be sectioned, it's no more rediculous.
It's like the scientology thing, most people will tell you they're crackers but it's probably more realistic than the christian god.
I could never have close friends with religous beliefs. It just creeps me out that someone can believe in god. If I insisted the tooth fairy was real I'd be sectioned, it's no more rediculous.
It's like the scientology thing, most people will tell you they're crackers but it's probably more realistic than the christian god.
I personally would not decry a man for his own beliefs nor would I dislike him for having a different outlook to my own.
Les