jasey

Sorry if the picture of Eric offended you

zip106

Neither have I.
If people get upset and insulted by the term 'happy clapper' then their is something missing in their life.

Perhaps they should turn to religion for comfort - or read some story books... Oh, hang on.....

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

yes, that's exactly it

The Zohan

May god (insert the name of your god or prophet here) strike down the blasphemer...oh wait a minute too late!


There has been an uneasy peace between scientists and the church for some time now over this. Since it became unacceptable to go killing non believers in the name of your god although i understand it is OK to do so in the name of the prophet in some parts of the world.


Religion is a great prop/crutch for those who need one to lean on or believe in and provides a set of rules and standards to live by with rewards for being good and punishment for being bad unless you are a catholic of course when you can do what you want, when you want and confess perform a mundane task and the slate is wiped clean.

Hawkin has only said what a lot of people already believe/know.

what would scooby do

The pope and the head "catlicks" are too busy hiding their paedophiles to take notice of Hawking..

StanS

iTrader: (3)

Science and religion are not mutually exclusive.
One accepted scientific theory is that we are in a cycle of big bangs and big crunches. Depending on the amount of matter in the universe, gravity will slow the expansion then cause a big crunch, which will then be followed by another big bang etc.
Who is to say that there is not some designer who orchestrates all this, and for it to happen, there must be laws (of physics) that allow it all to happen. In the same way that a car mysteriously appearing in the stone age would be regarded as some sort of miracle, that obeys certain laws to make it work, but there was still some bod who designed the car !
(An alternative view)

what would scooby do

There is no evidence for this alternative view..

jasey

Science and Faith may not be mutually exclusive but science and Religion most certainly are.

Science books change when we discover more about the world we live in.

Religous books change when the sheep that follow them wise up to the bollox they contain.

No offence intended - it's just my view which I am entitled to have & express

britishbulldog

iTrader: (1)

there is also another scientist who has some very interesting things to say on this subject, his name is Richard Dawkins.

Serious question for anyone who believes in god, by "god" i mean the christian god:

Do you also believe in Allah, Mohammed, zeus, thor etc because if you were born in a different country you would believe in a completely different god and the reason you believe in the christian god in purely down to the place you were born in and the parents you were born to.

So do you believe in all these other gods? if not then why not?

what would scooby do

Simple fact is that there are so many religions that logic dictates they are all invalid.

StanS

iTrader: (3)

It could be that all religions are referring top the same creator.
There is also no firm evidence for the multiple (parallel) universes Hawkins mentioned.
Science evolves. What we know today is not the end of the story.

what would scooby do

No they don't - modern belief systems have single gods but the much older ones have multiple gods. Greek and Roman mythology etc had many gods so nothing points to them having the same creator.

islam and christianity stole many parts of their belief systems from the Egyption / pharaonic belief system were a man was the god

GlesgaKiss

Have to say I find Richard Dawkins' stuff pretty interesting to watch. Watched 'The God Delusion' and 'Enemies of Reason', and will be watching the one about Darwin next week. Obviously it's nothing really new to anyone with a bit of common sense, but there is some humour in watching him wind these people up and try to get them to open their minds a bit.

Also impressive that Channel 4 have the ***** to show this kind of stuff.

Gregsti01

iTrader: (1)

In my tender years nothing in my life has led me to believe there is a god !! as one wag wrote years ago religion was created to keep the peasants happy in times of hardship,ie when you die you go to a better place.More people have died in the name of religion than any other natural effect.In times off hardship many believe in religion because they lack faith in them selves.Look at the pope in his gold wealthy world full of pomp if he had any heart why is he not living in a small house giving the money to poor starving people around the world,I do have great faith but dont need religion to prove it,ps I dont believe there is a god,gave up on fairy stories when I left infant school

britishbulldog

iTrader: (1)

i see no-one can answer my question so far,

i will add another question:

Those people who pray to god, do you also pray to allah?

again if not why not? do you believe in the bible but believe the koran to be made up? as i stated before if you were born into a jewish family you would follow the jewish releigion, the god you believe in is purely down to where you are born, if you were born in ancient greece then you would believe in zeus, if you are born in an african village you pray to the juju in the sky etc etc etc.

All down to environment, as a side point richard dawkins raised a point that i also agree with, any christians out there with children, do you class your children as christian children? I live near a jewish community and
all the children wear the jewish caps and have the sideburns etc, they are classed as jewish children, the only reason for this is they have no choice in the matter and it is forced upon them by family, community leaders etc.

oh and to the poster who stated a respected scientist should know better than to dismiss any possibility of god. heres something to ponder:

Richard dawkinsI personally does not believe in god, however he cannot say 100% he doesn't exist, so deos that mean he believes there is a possibility he does exist?

The answer is no, it also cannot be proved that santa claus doesn't exist, nor the tooth fairy, nor unicorns, i could go on but the point i am making is "just because you cannot prove something doesn't exist, does not mean you should believe in it"

and finally, if there had been no religions in the history or mankind and suddenly now, knowing all we do about science, someone found "the bible"
with the talking snake and all that it contians, how many of us would believe it? i am going to say almost no-one. Can anyone say they believe the story of the bible? as if they do god is a pretty nasty piece of work, or do they just pick and choose the parts that sound good and ignore all the hatred, death, homophobia etc?

i am not trying to cause offence, just trying to open peoples minds and make them think about whether they do truly believe?

gallois

Someone once said to me (whilst all spirutualised up, on some plant).

Time is not linear, it stops when you die, your energy returns to the planet earth, it is redistributed to whatever needs it, whenever, past present or future. Every living thing alive on this planet is using x amount of energy, this is always constant, something dies, something is born, human population increases, a species dies out, it is a constant. So if there is a god, it is this planet we live on, it creates everything on it, it too has a 'god', the sun, which also has a god etc etc.

kinda makes sense.

britishbulldog

iTrader: (1)

It does make snse but the word "god" is an incorrect label, species dying out is a product of natural selection, i.e survival of the fittest, the planet we live on is a result if physics, not a single entity called "god" in the bible god appears to a number of people, how come he has never done this since, and one more point to ponder:

if god made me then why did he make me an athiest? why did he make a muslim believe in allah or did allah make the muslims and "god" only make the christians?

and the jews believe the earth to be only 5000 years old, does anyone belive that is actually true, in years gone by when there was no science i can understand how someone would believe that as they didn't know any better, we now have evidence that the earth is many millions of years old, verified by many different methods all yealding very similar results.

apparently believing the earth is only 5000 years old is equal to believing the distance between sanfrancisco and new york is something like 96 yards, anyone believe the distance between those 2 places is 96 yards please show yourselves

Trout

iTrader: (1)

There ain't no atheists in a fox hole!

Dedrater

Was Jack and the Beanstalk all a load of cobblers then?

Miniman

iTrader: (2)

Poor farmers, a giant, a goose and a cow I believe, no cobblers in that fairy story.

Korrosiv

iTrader: (1)

I asked a very religous person this very same question to which they said 'To test your soul'. Life apprently is a test to see if you are fit to get into heaven

That kind of response just shows there is no reasoning with belief. Every question you ask a devotely religous person comes straight back to belief.

I personally take heart from the law of energy conservation. When I die I get returned to the Universe as mass and energy to live on.

britishbulldog

iTrader: (1)

"I asked a very religous person this very same question to which they said 'To test your soul'. Life apprently is a test to see if you are fit to get into heaven "

I wonder if you asked the same person the following question what the response would be?

"were the ancient greeks allowed into heaven?"

they did believe in a god but not the christian god, so are the qualifying criteria to get into heaven that you just have to believe in any old god, doesn't really matter which one? or do u only get a pass if it is the christian god you believe in.

people are free to believe whatever they want in my opinion, however if i believe the moon is made of cheese i would be ridiculed, if i said i was on holiday in australia and met a talking snake then again i would be ridiculed, yet when the talking snake thing is in the bible it is taken as gospel, makes no sense.

no-one has answered my questions so far, so if i said i met a talking snake would you believe me? if i wrote it down and published it in a book would it make it more believable? the answer has to be

i predict in 100 years that religion will be dead, i know of no-one in my age group that goes to church. surely no congregation = no more church?

Hysteria1983

Put any member of a religious group in a room, hold an apple mid air and drop it. They will both agree it is gravity. It's obvious nobody can or would argue.

Yet put them in a room to discuss any aspect of a given religion and a scientist will still come up with many different explanations as to why it's all a pile of horse crap. They will probably become very insistant upon how they have come close to proving that's it's all rubbish.

The thing is they can't prove any if it is faulse, but they like to wind themselves up a treat, while the religious person is quite happy to simply 'have faith'.

Personally I beleive the bible is a book, an interesting one, but still just a book.

Yet like my father (who is equally unconvinced) and many others, we will have a traditional service when we die. Get buried or cremated and more than likely be very hopeful that there is ..... A Heaven.

That makes me, and a shed load more people hypocrites.

I would like to know of someone who would happily just die and be left to it, no burial, no service or prayers, nobody to pay their respects. Simply just stop living as there is nothing else to do, and nowhere else to go.

Hysteria1983

Put any member of a religious group in a room, hold an apple mid air and drop it. They will both agree it is gravity. It's obvious nobody can or would argue.

Yet put them in a room to discuss any aspect of a given religion and a scientist will still come up with many different explanations as to why it's all a pile of horse crap. They will probably become very insistant upon how they have come close to proving that's it's all rubbish.

The thing is they can't prove any if it is faulse, but they like to wind themselves up a treat, while the religious person is quite happy to simply 'have faith'.

Personally I beleive the bible is a book, an interesting one, but still just a book.

Yet like my father (who is equally unconvinced) and many others, we will have a traditional service when we die. Get buried or cremated and more than likely be very hopeful that there is ..... A Heaven.

That makes me, and a shed load more people hypocrites.

I would like to know of someone who would happily just die and be left to it, no burial, no service or prayers, nobody to pay their respects. Simply just stop living as there is nothing else to do, and nowhere else to go.

britishbulldog

iTrader: (1)

" I would like to know of someone who would happily just die and be left to it, no burial, no service or prayers, nobody to pay their respects. Simply just stop living as there is nothing else to do, and nowhere else to go. "

I Honestly am of that opinion, once i am dead you could tie me to a tree and use me as target practice for all i care. i will be dead and not know about it. just the same as how i dont miss being here before i was born, cos i wasn't here so dont know about it.

dont really see the difference between being tied to a tree and shot at, being blown up, burnt to cinders or being buried and left to rot, iot makes no differnec eto anything whatsoever except maybe the feelings of the people you leave behind

Hysteria1983

But would you honestly? Knowing that it is expected? Or that it's the right thing?

Would you not think that despite all the non beleiving you have done, you could still hope for another place?

As much as I am very doubtful about many aspects of religion, the fact that once I am dead life will go on and on and on..... Forever. It's a horrible though, and the glimmer of hope for another place is what allows me to have a small percentage of faith. Albeit for the wrong reasons I admit, but I cannot let go completely and be a 'non beleiver'.

Hysteria1983

Not all religions require church attendance.
But the church usually expects you to worship the appropriate 'god'.

Like you say about the talking snake for example, it would be just a book. The fact people take the bible quite literally is beyonde.
Some if it was documented decades after the actual events with a sort of he said, she said attitude.

Still people find comfort in it. I'm fine with that.

SRSport

Its been an interesting read but there really isnt anything that has remotely challenged me or made me question my faith to be honest. Im not particularly impressed with what Ive read in the article about Hawkings, I expected more but when we are all bound by laws of physics I dont know why I expected anything else, but if I was looking for reasons to satisfy and promote my lack of belief, then I guess all this stuff is welcomed.

Dedrater

Me, sort of. I am registered for anatomical examination when I die (body donor) They may keep me as long as they like and dispose of my how they wish.

StickyMicky

This has always been my view.