Shaun

Just did my first ECU ROM file program write with EasyECU tonight. Very straight forward and took about 10mins all in all once I connected a couple of plugs underneath the dash!

Been back out... done some logs in DeltaDash... sent them back to Tracktive for comment!

Bluenose172,
Inlet's were a tad on the warm side tonight, so never managed to pull 330g/s. Did reach 323g/s and it gave a voltage of 4.72v. Information any good to you?!

Paul,
I suspect they would be very similar as well on the road.

Andy,
Thanks!

Yes... from the late Blobeye's (widetrack) through to Hawkeye's, I believe the TMIC was slightly more effecient over the previous STI 8 (Blobeye pre widetrack) TMIC.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Shaun, good info, thanks!

Shaun

That was quick.... Just received a new ROM file from Tracktive based on tonights logs!! That's service for you!

typeRv4

Cheers i suspected that you'd be running more in the mid range than up top.

Thats a nice peak power figure 400+ on 1.35bar.

Good to see if your running a decent turbo you can get 400 out of a newage tmic and std airbox like andy.f has been saying for a few years... a real world fast road car.

Shaun

It is running (in 4th):

1.6bar at 4600
1.5bar at 5600
1.35bar at 6600
1.32bar at 7300 (end of logged run)

Less boost and more ignition.

Will be looking to push the OE TMIC and inlet some more in the near future with another Litchfield turbo.

Shaun

OK... so after a couple of map changes (to sort the overboost) from Tracktive sent via email I decided to bang the car back on PowerStation's dyno for a final comparison.

This time I decided to do a RoadDyno run on my way to PowerStation which came out at:

325bhp / 333LbFt (Temps were a tad warmer today and air flow was slightly down)

This relates to approximate Flywheel BHP of 406bhp.

Whilst the car was on the rolling road at PowerStation I decided to log the car using DeltaDash. I was expecting 390+bhp if I am being totally honest.



397.8bhp @ 7380rpm / 381.7LbFt @ 3935rpm

That's as close to what the turbo is advertised as achieving as I think you will accept!!! No marketing bull**** there then!

Comparing the same day RoadDyno figures it was not exactly far off that either.

Due to the higher temps the logged airflow was not quite what has been seen on the road, as it was some 6g/s down, so I have no doubt it would pick up the 2.2bhp to meet 400bhp on a cooler day.

If you look closer at the graph you will notice how well it holds on to the power at the top end. The power curve is great for a 2ltr 400bhp conversion and the power band is substantial from 4000rpm through to 7300rpm. It really begs for you to hold on to the revs, which is especially nice with the extended JDM rev limit on the road.

Boost is not wild either and at a sensible profile.

Remember this car has not been mapped for any dyno figure target. It was 100% mapped on the road for the best "feel" & performance in that environment. The fact that it has made the advertised figures is a bonus in my book..... not that I ever doubted how good the power would be.

It made sense to overlay the LM400 run against the previous VF37 run at PowerStation. I expected a lowdown slight loss as this is what I experienced on the road with RoadDyno, which was highlighted previously.



No suprise that it was evident on the before and after on PowerStation's rollers then.

It is weird as you don't feel it on the road and like I have previously said, the 40-60mph acceleration figures have remained the same. With a bit more work on the map I am confident that this slight dip could be pulled back and it will be something we will look at I'm sure. However, it has done what it has done and I am not in the game of hiding anything..... because it simply does not have any real detrimental effect on what the car is doing on the road in my view.

You can certainly see from 3400rpm the LM400 makes mince meat out of the VF37. To have a turbo that provides any extra 60bhp, without any real detrimental effect low down is a great achievement in my book.

Please remember as well that this car is still on the OE intake and TMIC!!

As a road car the LM400 really does deliver!

Most people already have a decat / sports cat and Richard Bulmer has had fantastic results with this turbo by even keeping the OE injectors and boost solenoid (peak power boost at just over 1.2bar so not far off my boost profile)! The money you save by not changing injectors and boost solenoid probably far outweighs the 10 or so bhp you would gain at the top end. For a budget upgrade... i.e. just the LM400 turbo, this is certainly a very wise spend imo.

Whilst it would be interesting to see what advantages a FMIC and inlet kit would provide at this level, I'm not convinced that the £1k+ required would be worth the extra (perhaps) 10bhp at the top end. Call me boring, but the idea of this is to spend on what is only needed and to retain an OE look engine bay and OE drive. Things may have to be looked at in the future though, dependant on the next turbo.

As a customer I am extremely happy with the recent upgrades. If you are on the edge as to whether or not this is the turbo for you... I would personally recommend it as a modification path for anyone looking for 400bhp on a twinscroll.

It will certainly be interesting to see what happens with the next turbo.

stealthy55

nice write up shaun, great to see somebody posting "in gear" times, makes a nice change from the rr figures that people post up love the real world

andy00v7

Hi Shaun
Very good result 397.8 bhp , I didn't think you was going to acheive that on the STD tmic . If you would had decided to put put the 100 cell sports cat on instead of the decat how may bhp do you think you would have lost ?

Andy

Shaun

Stealthy55,
Thanks.

It's not all about RR graphs however useful they are in their own context, as you appreciate.

Andy,
The OE TMIC will / can be utilised far greater imo than I have shown to date.

Personally I think that a number of differing rolling road set-ups tend to give lower figures for TMIC set-ups, purely because they are not geared up for effecient airflow for TMIC's. On the road it is a different story. PowerStation have a nice direct and pressured feed to the TMIC, which is a lot better than many that I have seen. Figures attained at PowerStation tally well with RoadDyno in the real world conditions.

I have no experience personally of the effeciencies of 100 cell Sports CATS. However I am aware that they cause little to no restriction on WRC engines, but these of course use restrictors so I don't know if the top end flow would be compromised with our set-ups.

I am led to believe they can make little to no difference on a road car.

One of the reasons that I decided to not go with one for the moment was purely down to "issues" I have heard of some 100cell CATS not always passing MOT's, but then I believe this is mostly down to the CATS not being hot enough. Come MOT time I suspect I will get one fitted for keeps now though.

Zisis

Following your write-up with big interest Shaun!!!!

Maybe I am out from the thread's purpose but can you post g/s vs MAF voltage from any of your logs, say from 2000 rpm up to redline???

My interest is regarding the MAF/ECU operation, since mine (EURO MY03) is 16bit and yours is 32bit.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

It's still 16 bit.

Shaun

Zisis,
No problem at all. I will post the data when I get home from the dyno run logged via DeltaDash. If any of the information can be of use (apart from items like ignition timing and VVT angles etc lol), I will provide.

Shaun

Zisis,
No problem at all. I will post the data when I get home from the dyno run logged via DeltaDash. If any of the information can be of use (apart from items like ignition timing and VVT angles etc lol), I will provide.

Shaun

Taken (using DeltaDash) from the run associated with the dyno graph above. Not quite the airflow I have seen in cooler air temps but gives you an idea.

Engine Speed (RPM) / Mass Air Flow (grams/s) / Air Flow Sensor Voltage (Volts)
1973 42.57 2.6
2017 44.12 2.62
2065 45.43 2.6
2108 46.6 2.68
2156 47.8 2.68
2223 49.93 2.76
2264 52.25 2.74
2338 54.94 2.78
2361 56.9 2.84
2427 59.75 2.88
2462 61.91 2.88
2521 63.93 2.92
2576 66.71 2.96
2590 68.92 2.96
2666 70.81 3.02
2693 72.69 3.06
2738 76.51 3.1
2793 79.11 3.12
2877 83.07 3.2
2898 89.18 3.2
2953 92.67 3.28
3014 100.58 3.34
3085 107.39 3.42
3129 115.12 3.5
3167 119.95 3.6
3241 134.53 3.68
3266 139.8 3.76
3330 151.98 3.82
3366 162.63 3.92
3412 174.16 3.98
3440 182.56 4.04
3521 189.14 4.06
3539 190.62 4.1
3606 197.29 4.12
3657 198.88 4.16
3684 204.89 4.16
3726 208.29 4.18
3763 207.87 4.18
3815 215.95 4.24
3842 213.4 4.26
3910 218.51 4.26
3922 214.25 4.26
3987 222.94 4.28
4026 225.2 4.3
4061 220.71 4.3
4123 224.74 4.3
4204 225.2 4.32
4225 233.01 4.36
4266 233.01 4.36
4350 235.77 4.34
4355 233.47 4.36
4401 235.77 4.36
4470 242.42 4.38
4540 244.93 4.4
4556 248.22 4.42
4615 247.65 4.42
4688 251.05 4.42
4702 257.84 4.44
4765 250.48 4.42
4823 253.88 4.46
4861 253.88 4.46
4889 257.84 4.46
4967 258.98 4.48
4983 257.28 4.48
5047 259.54 4.48
5078 264.92 4.5
5130 266.15 4.5
5158 266.77 4.52
5259 267.38 4.52
5256 274.15 4.52
5315 272.3 4.52
5388 272.3 4.56
5407 282.13 4.54
5450 284.59 4.56
5551 280.29 4.56
5547 282.13 4.58
5605 287.66 4.58
5682 287.04 4.6
5690 292.58 4.58
5738 294.64 4.62
5841 291.96 4.6
5814 293.26 4.62
5873 293.88 4.62
5924 303.51 4.64
5981 301.45 4.64
6073 302.14 4.64
6088 304.89 4.64
6127 308.33 4.66
6214 305.57 4.66
6255 306.26 4.64
6308 309.01 4.68
6297 311.77 4.66
6399 312.46 4.68
6454 314.52 4.68
6438 315.21 4.68
6544 316.58 4.7
6590 317.96 4.68
6585 317.27 4.68
6620 317.96 4.7
6672 317.96 4.68
6781 320.03 4.72
6849 317.96 4.68
6881 317.96 4.7
6931 316.58 4.7
6912 317.96 4.7
6977 317.96 4.7
7082 322.09 4.72
7055 314.52 4.68
7170 324.84 4.7
7143 318.65 4.7
7184 319.34 4.7
7310 324.84 4.7
7353 317.27 4.7
7404 317.27 4.7
7448 318.65 4.7
7426 313.83 4.7
7553 314.52 4.68

Zisis

Thanks alot Shaun,

A 16 bit ECU will not 'read' values bigger than 299 g/s and will not 'accept' them if you try to recalibrate the MAF.
For me, it means that hardware-wise, the 2005 and onwards models are better equipped from factory and can reach safely and with little expences up to 380-400 bhp. Best daily drive vehicle, justifies your choice also!!!

Zisis

Bluenose172, please correct me if I am wrong, I think that they are 32bit ECUs, yours should have that also being 2005 SpecC. This justifies the fact that Shaun's ECU can still read values larger than 299 g/s on factory airbox-inlet piping.

Shaun

Zisis,
I'm not sure that is strictly true as the MegaROM code allows up to 400g/s as far as I know, on the OE inlet (when I program the ECU it says something about the code being BETA for 400g/s). This code is compatible with JDM's post MY03 (as far as I know) to Hawkeye.

Zisis

Shaun, in a 16 bit ECU you can't rise MAF max value above 300g/sec.
The max ECU internal representation is 16-bit value FFFFh = 300g/sec.

Your ECU should be 32 bit.

Is your car DBW or cable?

Zisis

Shaun and bluenose172, after thorough research you are both right!! The ECU is a 16bit unit!!!

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

OK, yes his car is still 16bit, his car is a JDM MY2006 which is still DBC, all JDM's up to and including that age are. There are several JDM ROM's(all 16bit) that have a 400g/s limit, the one the MegaROM uses is I believe a modified 2003 GroupN Rom(I think).

The 300g/s limit is still relatively straight forward to get around, there are several methods, some neat, some not so.

ZEN Performance

Shaun's maf limit should be 400g/s. the Megarom is an Ecutek development and nothing to do with the group N rom (which has a lot of stuff missing, like knock control).

Dealing with the 300g/s limit is not an issue but does benefit from some experience if you're dealing with a lot of unknowns (injector lag and maf scale being the main ones).

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Good thread Shaun

Shaun

After a conversation with Litchfield's today it may transpire that I may be looking at a new LM spec sooner rather than later.

As a road conversion I am absolutely happy with the performance and more importantly the drive and feel of the LM400. I really can't wait to get this car on track, especially with the kind of power curve it now has. Like I have said before peak figures are not the be all and end all.... having a nice fat power curve feels great in the real world and is more use than a peaky power curve in my opinion, as it feels so strong through the mid range.

The problem with changing spec of turbo is the fact that (as you may interpret by the graphs) the exhaust side of the LM400 is at or near it's peak flow. For the remit of the LM400 this matters not, as it makes the power and having a matched exhaust side ensures that response is maintained. Afterall this is exactly what the LM400 specification was meant to do.

If you want more power utilising the current wheel specs you will need to increase the size of the exhaust wheel. This would potentially increase maximum flow but may have a downside of decreasing response and lowdown grunt. This is always the game that has to be played.

One of the most important things for me is the response and lowdown grunt, but there is a new specification (with a new revision) being tested by Litchfields this week that may just mean you have a bit more of your cake. I will see what transpires on this front but I find it hard to believe that the current LM400 can be improved... we will see as I remain open minded about it all.

One of the key reasons why I also want to go down the route of kerbing the power output (and if anything only look at improving response and spool) to the level it is at, is because when I take this car on track (and I certainly will) I want to have a set-up that I can just cane the living daylights out of. I know people are running far in excess of what I run on untouched Newage 2ltrs, but I want absolutely ZERO stress with this car so I am happy to accept that means I must remain sensible on the power front. Since the car will not be used for any real competition stuff the power will never be a problem in my book and I am long past the "power chasing" scenarios..... been there and done that!

Knowing me though...... roflol

Talking of track use, I will be looking at some very "choice" modifications in the near future regarding the chassis with Litchfields. Whilst this will not include suspension (I truly believe this is not needed for my car at present) I will look at the possibility of adjustable top mounts to look at killing two birds with one stone, to increase Castor and Camber a tad at the front. It may surprise you to know I will not be touching the ARB's at this stage. Remember this is all about not changing anything radical for a road car, but looking to sharpen it up..... and all by not spending a fortune and ruining the road car feel.

I have provided any feedback on the Performance Friction two piece disks, bells and pads that were fitted to the car by API prior to me buying it. They feel really good on the road, but I will await a good thrashing on track to see how they hold up. They will certainly need to put up a show to be anywhere near as good as my old AP 6 pots from the Spec C... we will see how they cope and I will give feedback as and when.

Something I forgot to review was the costs of everything I have had done to date (as regards to the recent Litchfield LM power upgrade), so here we go (prices inc. VAT):

Litchfield LM400 Turbo & Fitting Kit £1893.00
Litchfield Heatshield £57.57
Litchfield 800cc Injector Kit £558.00
Walbro Fuel Pump £92.82
3-Port "Plug and Play" Boost Solenoid £141.00
Miltek 3" Decat Exhaust System £742.48
Cosworth Panel Filter £30.55
Labour to fit £467.65
EcuTEK remap to suit £470 (without EcuTEK license which would be + £150)

Grand Total as a drive in drive out solution from an OE Twinscroll car as a base £4453.07

However it is worth noting I upgraded EVERYTHING. Most people already have a decat / sports cat exhaust, fuel pump and panel filter replacement, so the final price will reflect that.

Anyway.... I am booked in to API this week to have a full set of DEFI's fitted (Oil Temp, Oil Pressure & Boost) which are really for use on track. I will put a fitting guide up on this as soon as it has been done by API.

Bob,
Thanks!

-Nic-

iTrader: (4)

A quality thread Shaun.

Think I'll be having one of these when I get my car.

Appreciate the effort you've gone to to write this up.

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

[QUOTE=Shaun;9600445]
One of the most important things for me is the response and lowdown grunt, but there is a new specification (with a new revision) being tested by Litchfields this week that may just mean you have a bit more of your cake. I will see what transpires on this front but I find it hard to believe that the current LM400 can be improved... we will see as I remain open minded about it all.
QUOTE]

I like cake and eating it too. It will be interesting to see. Keep us posted Shaun

Shaun

Nic,
Thanks for the comments.

This is perhaps the turbo that the cars should of had as OE.

Cliff,
I do have a case of the verbals when it comes to these projects, so be rest assured I will give you all the "juicy" details!!!

When you do you think your 2.1 will be done?!

Hammer man

iTrader: (25)

Soon. Hopefully!

fpan

iTrader: (11)

Really interesting reading this Shaun!
Regarding adjustable top mounts that you mention, can they be used with the OEM struts?
What brand/where from?

Shaun

Cliff,


Fpan,
Yes they can be used on OEM struts and I think Litchfield mentioned Whiteline as the supplier. I need to find out some more details as I assume they will be solid top mounts. If this is the case I may just give them a miss and just go for fitting a new set of camber bolts at the front. I don't want anything knocking / banging at the front.

Will find out some more information.

Shaun

Today I spent the day with the lads up at API, having my set of DEFI gauges fitted that came out of the Spec C.

In some ways you would argue against the need for a gauge pack in a road car, but because I will be taking the car on track and I think it is useful having a boost gauge for information purposes, I made the decision to have them in the Hawkeye. The other reason is because they are worth a mint! Especially the STI branded DEFI's that I had.

The real benefit for me for track work is the requirement to know what is going on with your oil temperature and oil pressure. Oil will have a working temperature range and when on track it is very important that you know what temperature the oil is reaching. If it gets too hot you can drastically shorten bearing lubrication and inturn life. The oil pressure is just as important, especially the warmer the oil gets. On track this can also highlight problems with oil surge which is neither good or recommended for the life of your engine!

DEFI gauges are quite nice as they can have a number of facilities via the Controller, which enables you to set alarms for specific readings, record data received by your gauges and show peak values that have been attained.

These specific gauges were originally fitted to the Spec C many many years ago and are infact the older type DEFI's. Unfortunatey they have green backlights which don't match the dash lighting. Hey Ho!

Unfortunately I would of had more images for the fitting side of things, but during the initial part of this install I was otherwise engaged.....

David said to me when I first got to API "You know about computers don't you?!". Ermm.... just a tad David! "Great... can you have a look at our Dastek Rolling Road as it don't seem to work right!". roflol

I failed to see where knowing about IT had anything to do with getting their rolling road up and running! Anything electrical I am normally pretty good with, but I have never looked at a rolling road from the technical side..... but I am always up for a challenge. Perhaps David assumed that because I had spent nearly 5yrs on several rolling roads with the Spec C I must be able to fix it..... sounded so crazy it had to be true!

Anyway.... I got a few wiring diagrams out. Changed a few wires over on the hand controller and configured the PC to the dyno controller box, had the manuals out and got to grips with how the software/dyno works and within an hour he had a functional rolling road again. I'm not sure whether David was shocked or stunned when his Dastek Rolling Road was up and running again! If he was shocked he was not as shocked as me!

It was comical when a couple of the engineers came over to me and said "Shaun... You know how to set these rolling roads up then?".

This was surely going to be a weird day!

Anyway......

The DEFI system is made up of the following parts:

Sandwich plate with Oil Temp and Pressure sensor


Centre Dash Pod and DEFI Gauges


DEFI Commander


Wiring Loom


First thing to do was to remove the oil filter and fit the oil sensor sandwich plate, which fits on to the standard filter coupling.


With the plate in place the sensor loom is fed around in to the upper part of the engine bay to allow it to be fed through the bulkhead with any other appropriate looms.

Since one of the gauges is for boost you then need to "T" in to the vacuum piping of the engine. One of the easiest places to take this "T" off is from the vacuum on the front of the inlet manifold.





The vac feed then needs to go to the DEFI boost pressure sensor, which then sends a signal to the commander and then boost gauge.



So looms from the oil temp and pressure, along with the boost now need to be fed through the bulkhead in to the DEFI Commander. Using a gromit on the bulkhead this is a simply job!



Since these looms enter the car near the under dash fusebox, it is easier to remove the under dash cowling to gain better access.



The centre dash pod that currently houses the OE clock and aftermarket alarm LED needs to be removed to enable the DEFI pod to be put in it's place.



This has four retaining clips. Two at the sides at the rear (near the windscreen), which can be released by giving the pod a good tug from the lip (where the clock is). The two at the front can be quite tight (as these were), so you may need to lift it from the rear and carefully get a screwdriver in the front to prise the catches.



Before fixing the new pod the commander was connected up to the sensor looms and power loom. Since this is the STI version of the DEFI's, it actually comes with a power loom that plugs straight in to the existing Subaru loom under the dash. Saves a bit of time messing around as a standard DEFI set-up would require a manual hardwire.

The DEFI Commander was placed on the centre dash, but can go where ever you want.



The gauge pod was then connected to the DEFI Commander and the alarm LED was re-located.



The last thing to do was to plug the gauges in to the commander loom and refit the pod in to the dash.



Voila.... all done and I now have a nice set of gauges again!

It has been some years since I have had these gauges on a JDM 2ltr and I had totally forgotten how good a oil pressure these engines can make. When I took it home it was maintaining great pressure at operating temps (90degs Oil Temp) showing 6.75bar at 3000rpm.

This will be just the ticket for when I go out on track as I will be able to judge when to back off once temps reach circa 110degs.

API also honoured their "lifetime no quibble guarantee" (lol) with my car and replaced the battery with a brand new one, as the original was a bit weak. No fuss and no question.

Many thanks to David at API and especially Nathan for their time today! As always a fast and efficient service.

Invoice for the RR repair is in the post David!