matt-c

iTrader: (5)

On my setup (PF discs) the PF pads were dangerous for street use little or no bite from cold, even worse when wet and cold. Brilliant when hot, but....

Hope you get the same improvement as the NDX have transformed the usability of my car.

cster

What compound of PF pad are you talking about?

simb 2

iTrader: (3)

Further update from my experience....Fantastic, been on many a spirited drive lately and the pads perform as Andy said they would. Great breaking from cold and even better when theres a bit of heat in them. I have not experienced any fade whatsoever so far!

Brake dust is minimal which is surprising for such a good pad and the set-up i'm running!

Just bought a kit car to have some track and trial time fun so will be looking to put these pads on that.

Thanks again Andy for letting me be part of this test

Si

Fizz

iTrader: (1)

Tried blues I won in a competition on the race car in the rear, 15 mins and they were toast, heavy smoking and the efficiency tailed off badly. Not for race but track day may be ok in very short bursts. You have to consider my race car is only 1200 kg too.

Andy Freeman

Hi There

My questions are

1) Why only in the rear, strange thing to do
2) What did you use in the front as if they were not working the back would have to step up to compensate.Even so they would NEVER burn up normally.
3) How was your brake bias.


Under normal balanced conditions it is IMPOSSIBLE to burn up a set of these pads which has a heat threshold of over 1000 degrees. If a brake gets that hot it is either dragging, over biased, not getting any air or something else that the caliper is doing that keeps the pads dragging till they overheat.

Not normal at all

regards Andy Freeman

Andy Freeman

And Fizz

were they NEW Blues, tell me from whom you got them and I will track the sale, we have records of every NDX Blue we sent out to competition winners

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

I thought the same. I've only seen 2 bad reports of the "NDX" and when I further investigated, it turned out that people were supplied with the old Bluestuff compound and not the new Bluestuff NDX.

I PM'd Fizz yesterday to find out more.

53

iTrader: (41)

Brembo fitments...

BlueStuff on my 1995 STi Wagon, amazing, worked from the off, stops dead, awesome. As yet no track feedback as I broke my gearbox

BlueStuff on my 2006 STi SpecD, not as good from the off, less bite at slower speeds, possibly the difference in newage-classic but became better after a trackday pounding. Performed well at Brands and will stop you to the point of endo, at speed they bite and bite and bite lol

Would definitely buy again

Ginola

iTrader: (25)

Have finaly got round to having these fitted after receiving some months ago from andy and have to say they seem great, they are just about bedded in now (bedding in took place on a mapping session ) but they managed that without a problem, I will right a full report and post details in the next few days when I have had a chance to thrash them without the mrs in the car.

Kind regards

Dave.

once again sorry for the delay andy !

Laki747

iTrader: (1)

I have blue NDX with my Alcon 6 pot BBK at front wheels.Rear brakes are stock with PF pads.

I had the car for some REALLY agressive driving for something like 10-15mins and after that i had to stop for some 7-8 secs...the very same moment i stoped my brakes started to smoke. They smoked that much that i even saw smoke outside and i was still in my seat in the car... From that moment pads often squeeks and if u try to drive agressive again they fade quickly followed with the squeeks and bad pedal feel. The pedal just drops when u hit it and braking is seriously reduced. Dont know if that is cuz of baked brake pads or maybe boiled fluid RBF600 or maybe both...pads still have nice amount of material on them...

Barty77

iTrader: (4)

I fitted mine to my ksports 8 pots and std 2 pot rear and did 700 miles before my first trackday to bed them in.

Rears didnt fit as the metal prong was far too big to fit in the caliper but a dremel soon sorted that out. Fronts were also awkward to fit (they said NASCAR on the box) and i needed a rubber mallet to persude them to go in.

I do find them great on the road however wasnt overly impressed on the track. after 3 laps i could feel they started to fade and its only a 1.5mile track.... im hoping that they may be better on the next track day which is in May.

i will be changing the brake fluid to this just incase my fluid is cr4p as im not sure what was put in at service.

i did geta comment from a marshall that he could smell the brakes on my car every time i came into a 2nd gear left hander.

johnfelstead

If you hammered the pads in, then they wont be able to move freely in the calipers, so will be sticking against the disk! Hence you stinky brakes that are overheating.

Take the pads out and fettle the backplate until they slide freely in the caliper, they may be dead now anyway if they have been perminantly dragging all the time you have been driving.

Barty77

iTrader: (4)

there isn't any rubbing they move freely, its just they didn't want to go in. Like I said I did 700 miles running in. When I ordered the pads I was advised these were the better fitting pad.

stockcar

the pads need to slide easily in and out of the caliper or as JOhnF has already explained you will get issues regardless of material........

alyn

Barty77

iTrader: (4)

it was just gentel persuasion as they wouldnt just go in easy. they move perfectly well since they are bedded in... should have just stuck to the original order and not taken the advice given by the seller...

G.Mac

iTrader: (2)

Alright Andy.
Hopefully you will be seeing an order for the NDX Blue stuff pads coming in shortly for a B7 RS4 (Aztec says the rears have not been made before so shall take about 2 weeks )

Anyway I was wondering if you have any plans for making replacement rotors for the 2005 onwards RS4 as they are not listed on your site and my brothers are starting to look a bit grooved.

Cheers
Graeme

deepy

iTrader: (1)

Fitted EBC Bluestuff to both front and rear today (thanks to Godspeed - very fast delivery), had to remove the anti-squeal pads on the fronts to get them onto the front discs (K Sport 6 pots) as they would just not slide on with them on. Rears standard single pots went on fine.

First impressions after only 20 or so miles are that they have transformed the braking. Since they replaced DS2500s on the front I have to assume that the biggest difference must be the rears replacing OEM pads.

Pedal feel is a lot better, bite is instant and progressive and less pressure needed before the anti-lock kicks in. Despite removing the anti-squeal pads the fronts have been completely silent, unlike the DS2500s which occasionally sang a few songs.

Very impressed so far, early days but so far a pleasure to use.

Andy Freeman

Laki

Never drive brakes real hard and then pull up and let them rest, you must drive for a few minutes to allow the rotors to cool or the pads will blanket the rotors and ruin those and the pads.

You must keep the wheels turning after heavy driving till the system cools a little so NEVER park a car with red hot brakes, cooldown lap when at a trackday also

Cheers

Andy Freeman

Hi Guys

Had one guy in touch with me this week saying he has judder in track use of Blues, not on EBC discs but its not a disc quality issue anyway.

I tried to answer this chap but he doesnt want to listen so here is the answer to anyone having judder on track use of ANY brand of pads.

1) Hub runout is most likely cause, even if your old set up ran good, new discs may not line up and seat the same and 0.004 inches runout will cause judder and steering wheel shake. You can try rotating the discs on bolt hole and run again but the best way is to dial gauge the discs and if you have runout get them pro Cut skimmed. Shown on our website on this link.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/pro_cut_lathe.shtml

2) Caliper sticking is number 2. We run the four pot scooby discs and calipers on our test rig and find that after about two weeks dyno work the caliper seals harden and start to drag. That is a year or so worth of hard driving but at that point, caliper drag will cause temps to shoot up under track use hundreds of degrees and the judder will set in. If you have not had your calipers rebuilt at least once a year, dont go near a trackday event or you will kill the pads and the discs, these four pot calipers suffer derag very easily.

EBC can do service exchange calipers, any of our online sellers can handle that job for you and they will be like new with new pistons seals and pressure tested jobs.

There can be more complicated reasons for judder but these need a good photo shot of the discs to comment on, basically a crystalline structure change and some of the cast iron elements surfacing, doesnt happen often but of the first two things dont fix it, these are where we would check

Cheers guys

fastboyslim

iTrader: (2)

I LOVE THESE PADS!!!!

Got a pair of DP51210NDX to replace my PF z's. Was not expecting a better pad but i think i have just got a pair as good if not better. NDX are super user friendly.

I took the NDX's out for some very hard driving and found no fault. I was expecting fade troughout my drive so was pleased/shocked when i had none at all. I got to a point where i HAD to make them fade so i did 5 x 100mph to 0mph stops. These were 5 stops with out the abs kicking in, NO FADE! Smiling like a CheshireCat i did 5 more stops but this time with my foot flat on the pedal and ABS helping out, i also had DCCD set to full lock. **** these cars can stop fast when they need to! Anyway, fifth stop had fade but come on, after 10 hard 100mph stops!

Well impressed with the NDX and will defo be putting them on the rear when i get new rear discs.

Andy Freeman

Hi There

we dont make any separate Hub and Bell units at this time and I think there is a patent issue on this, try K Sport and if they cannot do it maybe Hi Spec but EBC dont make them my man

Thanks Andy

fastboyslim

iTrader: (2)

I have just read through this thread from start to finish and there are a lot of mixed feelings towards these pads.

Like i said a few posts back i could not fault these pads. Maybe the difference is the old compound versus the new compound. I have the new formula and am still blown away with how well they work.

Andy Freeman

Youre not alone 97 out of 100 replies say

THESE ARE AMAZING BRAKES AND THE BEST I HAVE EVER USED

Two Guys had judder racing on early Subaru four pots, one other had contaminated rotors from previous ad materials.

Not a bad track record I would say

Cheers Andy

fastboyslim

iTrader: (2)

Pads getting better by the day. I have been pushing these pads harder than one should and they have no issues.

Barty77

iTrader: (4)

i must have been sent a **** set coz i recon they are the worst pad ive ever used, i much prefer the mintex 1155's.

the set im using are f: dp5006sc and state ndx r: dp5826sc again state ndx... i use RBF 600 fluid and i get brake fade after 10 miles of track use. They didnt fit the calipers properly (and these pads were recommended to me from a supplier on here) which i have commented on before ..... however i wont be buying another set thats for sure.

ive just done the mountain section of the TT course which is 9 miles and in one way direction for 2 weeks and they were starting to fade, highest recorded speed was 144mph on my sat nav.

fastboyslim

iTrader: (2)

Thats strange, my fronts are DP51210NDX oh wait, is yours an STi?

Barty77

iTrader: (4)

no its a wrx with k-sport 8 pots

Andy Freeman

Hi Barty
You say the pads didnt fit, please tell me exactly whaqt calipers you have as there are numerous race pads really close in shape and I think you have the wrong pads.

Have you looked at this page

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/...rs/index.shtml

If your pads didnt fit perfectly I will check this with the caliper builder and get it sorted. There are several radial depth options on this pad and if the new pads are sitting on a lip thats your problem.

If you have an outline of your old pads that worked OK please send as an attachment to andy@ebcbrakes.com because one thing is for sure you cannot fade these Blues on a street drive unless something is wrong or you TRY to by dragging the brake, even on the Island which I know well and have done many laps on a bike over the years on.

I will try to help you sort this my man

Cheers Andy

Barty77

iTrader: (4)

Cheers Andy,

I have a new set of K-sport 8 pots with 330mm discs purchased off Bren @ apex. whilst i knew the std pads wouldnt be up to the job i used them for 2/3 mths. when i fitted them they just slipped into the caliper with ease yet the EBC's were a right pain in the backside.... i had to dremel the sides down to remove the paint and then give the a little gentle persuasion with a rubber mallet to get them in..... they are free and do not stick.

I purchased the pads off another vendor that regulary advertises on here and i ordered the pads stated on your site but was advised they didnt fit as good as the set i purchased at the vendors recomendation. He also advised me to change the rear pads too, but when i went to fit they have 2 x wear indicators on and they didnt even fit in the caliper ... again out came the dremel and cut them off and the fit fine.

Someone might ask why not just send them back, well its a case of i needed to replace the rears and as its a daily driver i dont have the time to leave it on stands for a week.

I am more than happy to provide the original K-sport pad if required as they are in the ebc box ..... just looking at the box and it states AP Caliper Nascar Racing

Andy Freeman

These pads are our DP 5006 NDX which is a stamped plate (so cannot vary) and measures 151.8 mm wide. The spec for the caliper is 151.8 to 151.9.

I took a set of our pads and draw filed the sides just to clean off any paint and burrs and they dropped in. I checked also with a local garage that fits 70-100 sets of brake pads a week and asked if a little cleaning up of the pad sides was usual and he said YES ALMOST ALWAYS. He then added it was due to tolerances and often rust or scale (not in your case Barty I know) but generally rust and scale is a problem and ally calipers that have those stainless abutment shims are a nightmare where the shims need to be removed and the caliper corrosion removed to allow the shims to fit flush. NO pad will just drop in a used caliper yet they must fit and slide (without use of a hammer ) freely.

If anyone wants us to make the pads all 0.5 mm narrower so they drop in and rattle about and clonk when you hit the brake I would be amazed and thats what happens if they are not a snug fit. The slightest movement of a pad under hard braking makes you think the wheel nuts have come off, believe me I have tried it.

This other piece of prose below is a clip form whats going on our website this week after finding out with the help of Ian Godney that the vibration suffered on the THREE WRX 4 pot equipped cars was really down to bedding in. Hope this gives all some clues

Cheers for now

Andy

EBC Brakes installed an £80,000 heat scorching line in 2010 and from Jan 2011 all EBC Bluestuff and Yellowstuff are passed thru this process. The process involves a tunnel with multiple infra-red tubes which pump the surface temperature on the pads over 600C within seconds and toast or scorch the surface. The process is called “heat searing”. The process burns off some of the surface volatiles and accelerates the bed in process of the pads by carbonising the upper surface layer for a few thousandths of its depth only.

In street usethe brakes will feel strong from first install and gradually get better as they settle in. This bedding in will STILL take 200-300 miles of street driving or even longer if disc/rotor surfaces are not smooth and flat. The BEST way at any pad change is to have your rotors skimmed or surfaced on a Pro Cut on car brake lathe. Many people take the low cost option and do not do this but this only prolongs the bed in time. A decent used disc can even be BETTER than a new disc as it has gone through its own settling where the micro structure changes so don’t avoid the Pro Cut route. On this site (use the Google search engine at the top left) you can find where to get your rotors Pro Cut

On the Track(especially in track-day use which is the toughest test on standard brakes anywhere) and especially when fitting new discs bed in times will be longer and during the bed in process some vibration may be noticed.

This vibration can come from four things.

1) First if your vehicle has hub run out and your discs are not running true after a period of 3000-4000 miles street driving the discs or rotors will wear a thin spot and pump the caliper pistons open and closed in braking causing the vibration. So if you have rotors that have seen some street use and then USING THOSE SAME ROTORS on the track you get vibration, the discs need to be Pro Cut skimmed.
2) Second if you have “Decent” condition discs AND HAVE NOT SUFFERED ANY VIBRATION and have been running other pads that contain carbon granules, these will certainly have left a grey glaze on your rotors as a deposit. It might be regular grey glaze all over or seen in patches but it will NOT be the natural silver colour of the bare virgin discs iron. Skimming on a Pro Cut is the real cure but a few minutes with some fine sandpaper can deliver some results if you are at the track.
3) HOWEVER if you have fitted NEW discs and new pads and get vibration from the start of your track-day it will likely be due to the inadequate bedding time of the new systemand you need to persevere. Drivers have reported blue contact bands in the centre of the rotor which shows clearly that full contact has not been achieved when they experience this vibration. For those of you that do not believe this to be true, the test is to change the pads to another manufacturers product on the track-day and see for yourself.
4) We have left this till last as it is the least common. Not all discs are equal. There are good better and best in everything in life and cast iron discs are no exception. EBC Brakes produce many of their discs in a UK foundry and also machine them in the UK. For Europe over 98% of EBC discs sold are cast and machined in the UK. EBC Brakes are also launching in September 2011 a range of HIGH CARBON brake discs for aggressive driving styles. Many OEM builders of quality cars actually USE HIGH CARBON IRON already when the car is built. EBC will be one of the first to offer an aftermarket range in HIGH CARBON for the more discerning customer starting late 2011.Other than that you pay your money and you take your choice.

DO BRAKE DISCS WARP ????

We have heard this so many times it gets tiresome saying the same things but the answer is NO they do not, they either accumulate tar or glaze deposits or wear thin spots and suffer DTV (Disc thickness variation) both of which are cured and ONLY cured by the Pro Cut on car lathe or buying of new discs. One car in seven has hub run out that causes this DTV to happen so don’t blame the products, it s your car. !!!!